I dislike wayland

Quite the unpopular opinion, but I just wanted to post this to show the silent majority that we still exist. We have reached a point where voicing criticism against wayland is treated like the worst thing ever and leads you to being censored and what not. The red hat funded multi year long shill campaign has proven to be quite successful. Now do the same for immutable distros and every new buzzword that restricts your ability to make changes to your system and the long term plan of completely sabotaging the linux desktop will finally come true. That is all.

daniyeg,

why do you dislike it though?

bogokeb,

Freedom restricting corpo funded garbage

anamethatisnt,

You know, if you actually list factual problems you have with Wayland then it would be possible to have a discussion with you.

If you want to avoid freedom restricting corpo stuff then you better start with researching the supply chain of your phone and computer:
emergingtechbrew.com/…/forced-labor-tech-supply-c…

bogokeb,

dudemanguy.github.io/blog/…/wayland-xorg.html

anamethatisnt,

So the blog has these points listed:

  • Wayland’s client API is gimped. Understandably, any piece of software has limits on its scope. I’m not criticizing that, but the limit on the scope of the Wayland ecosystem is way too small.

  • Wayland’s lack of feature parity with Xorg cripples it. This brief section is now outdated and much to my surprise, the tearing protocol was actually merged thanks to Valve pushing hard for it. The text is left here for historical reasons.

  • Wayland’s render loop design is ridiculous. If you build a client from ground up specifically with Wayland in mind, sure this is easy. But many applications are cross platform and internally driven.
    There’s nothing wrong with an application managing how it should render internally. It’s a natural choice for any program that operates in a cross-platform manner.

  • Wayland’s Mesa implementations are leagues behind Xorg’s. Both the EGL and Vulkan Mesa implementations are, quite frankly, bugged and lacking when compared to their Xorg DRI3 counterparts.
    In EGL’s case, the spec isn’t violated, but swap intervals greater than 1 are completely broken.
    Vulkan is more dire. The indefinite blocking behavior outright violates the Vulkan spec. Giving a timeout in AcquireImage does nothing in practice because the blocking is done in PresentQueue. Only two presentation modes on Wayland actually work: fifo (well this works by breaking the spec) and mailbox.

  • Wayland itself has bad core decisions. The big and obvious mistake to point out is fractional scaling. Update: The fractional scale protocol has been merged, and it’s definitely a step forward.

  • Was it really worth it? We were told all along that Xorg is so bad and terrible that it needed to be started from scratch but at this point people need to be looking in the mirror and asking questions. If that 14 years of effort was instead focused onto solely improving Xorg, what would the result be? Surely, much more tangible results would have been gained at the end of the day.

    I’m not qualified to discuss render loop design or mesa implementations, but it seems 2/5 points has been rendered obsolete in the last 18 months. Progress! :)

bogokeb,

Progress is good but the other reasons are fundamental faults of wayland. You cannot “fix” them, the only solution is to make X12. And no wayland is not X12.

Phanatik,

Wayland isn't trying to be X12 and since X11 has been around, there haven't been plans for there to be an X12 either. You want to discourage people from using Wayland but don't encourage people to contribute to X11. You're so hellbent on taking Wayland down, rather than further convincing people that X11 is superior and it's easier to improve.

soulfirethewolf,

I fail to see what this has to do with slavery in tech supply chains

WallEx,

How is it restricting freedom? It gives you the choice, if you want to use it cool, if you don’t don’t. Its not like anyone is forcing you to use it.

bogokeb,

The last thing you want is for people to fall for the shill campaign and start developing wayland exclusive apps

WallEx,

Why not? Its more to chose from, so more freedom. Like different distros.

daniyeg,

genuinely asking how does it restrict your freedom?

bogokeb,

Apps have to rewrite code for every compositor. This is intentionally shitty design.

daniyeg,

it’s completely ok to not like or even hate wayland but this ain’t it. i don’t know if that’s true, but even if wayland is so shit that every compositor needs a separate compatibility patch i still don’t see how that’s restricting your freedom or app developers’ freedom or any kind of freedom. if it’s so cumbersome to support wayland then devs won’t support it and people won’t use it. no one is forcing anyone to do anything no one is ruling through software even if apps drop xorg in a free software environment people can pay developers to keep maintaining for xorg.

soulfirethewolf,

Last time I checked, free software respecting your freedom was about giving you the ability to redistribute it and do what you wanted with it. It wasn’t about guaranteeing compatibility

JASN_DE,

You again.

bogokeb,

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