Yes, Hamas is shitty and I’ve never seen a single person defend them.
Their actions do not ever justify the killing of innocent people and civilians. What’s so nasty about this war is the massive numbers of innocent deaths.
In this operation they saved FOUR people at the literal cost of hundreds of innocent men, women, and children. How can anyone defend this? It’s simply unconscionable.
It’s this simple. If a single innocent child is between you and your military target, and you kill the child to get to the target, then you’re a villain. Are you as much of a villain as the person you killed? Perhaps not. But are you a villain? Yes.
Let me quickly condemn Hamas before I step in to tell you that I’m so sick of reading „Hamas uses human shields“. The IDF is quite literally doing the same. Do you condemn the IDF?
That being said, it seems like an absolute waste of energy to use human shields against Israel, because they do not give a shit about civilians. They even shot their own hostages who were naked, unarmed, writing SOS and speaking Hebrew.
According to UN officials this could amount once again to war crimes. Do you think it’s Hamas‘ fault that Israel is committing war crimes? That Israel is committing genocide to name the crime of crimes?
i condemn the idf for killing innocents and their own hostage. there isn’t any argument concerning the killing of innocents.
i do however hold hamas ultimately accountable for these atrocities if they hadn’t started that shit on Oct 7th.
idf is responsible and accountable for sure but the situation today is still ultimately a response to hama’s actions and they are ultimately responsible and accountable for the tragedies that’s happening.
You are correct, everyone is a villain at that point. The problem with that, as horrible this is, is it incentivizes the action. For the same reason countries don’t negotiate with terrorists. If you prove that committing terrorist acts, or taking hostages, or using children as human shields works, you positively reinforce those acts. Its fucked up beyond belief, and all alternatives need to be exhausted, but at some level someone takes the responsibility for where the lines are drawn for the least damage in the long run.
Is it actually preferable to just give money to anyone who hijacks a bus load of people, or a plane, or a bank, etc, so that no hostages are possibly injured when that happens? It might be, and could be argued for. Is such acts becoming more frequent or commonplace because it works an acceptable price weight against innocent human life? Again, it very well might be. It’s only money. I am glad I am not the one making those decisions, but we can’t pretend that the calculus doesn’t happen and/or doesn’t matter.
I am still surprised by how people get (understandably) outraged at the IDF online but seem to forget that Hamas took those hostages in the first place. A lot of this bloodshed could be stopped right now if Hamas released them.
Sure, the Israeli government is fucking insane, but there are two sides fighting this war.
Also the IDF Hamas was fired upon when they raided in October. That makes this just war. Hamas Israel chose the war zone.
Swap the word Hamas with israel every time you think there’s a great argument to post. Helps to avoid advocating for the murder of civilians like some crazy extremist.
An extremist would say that this can’t end until one side kills the other, so might as well get it over with.
I don’t believe that. I think as humans we have an obligation to try for peace without murdering half a million people. Unlike most people here, I want to believe that someday both sides can find a way to peace.
But if you insist that one side is good and one side is bad, then this can’t end well.
I would argue that one side is fighting to achieve peace while the other side is fighting for the destruction of a population and the annexation of their land.
Remind me again who is rejecting the ceasefire offers.
Israel said they will not stop the Genocide nor release the Palestinian hostages if Hamas releases their hostages. So not sure what you are talking about.
You’re also a racist that believes all Palestinians want to kill all Israelis.
You state this openly, and then post a link to a study that doesn’t make that claim at all or anything resembling it and call it a source. Which, of course, isn’t how sources work. This is how sources work: lemmy.ml/post/15906506/11178832 The important bit there is that the source actually shows what I said it shows because I’m not a bad faith liar that enjoys justifying genocide.
You’re already insisting one side is good and one side is bad when you intentionally, and surreptitiously lie to try and get people to think your racist statement is true, hoping they don’t actually click through to your so-called sources.
So, please, pardon me if I don’t believe your bullshit pretending you want peace between the two sides.
You seem to forget that israel took hostages in the first place and the reason Hamas kidnapped people is literally to swap them for the hostages kidnapped by israel.
Yet one side is trying to reach a peaceful solution. Hamas.
You can be mad about Hamas using violence but we have left them no other option.
In the West Bank israel is committing Genocide as well. And those people have been trying the peaceful way for decades. And we do not condemn israel for doing so. In fact we keep supporting them and sending them the weapons to commit Genocide and help colonists annex more land.
Israel has made it extremely clear that they will never agree to a peaceful resolution unless they are forced into it. Both with words as with actions, they verbatimly state that they will never agree to let Palestinians have a state.
So no, there is no both sides. There is one side constantly punching the other and the only reason the other side hits back is because it wants the israeli side to stop hitting them.
I don’t see Hamas as a “side”. I see them as evil fucking terrorists willing to use their own people as shields.
How many times have we seen this, though? People take human shields all the time in and outside of wars. The answer is never to ignore the shields. Those are fucking people.
Both sides are fucking monsters in this conflict… But Israel is emphatically more successful at killing civilians. It’s literally a fact at this stage, with mountains of evidence.
"By the time it was over, four Israeli hostages had been brought home alive and mostly unscathed, at least physically, and at least 274 Palestinians, and an Israeli commando, had been killed."
And quite possibly killed three more hostages in the action. Hamas is claiming it and the IDF is denying it. But considering that the four hostages saved were being held in the same place as one of the higher ups, if the IDF has just been bombing every other family home of Hamas members (remember the Where's Daddy AI system?), then it seems quite likely they could kill hostages in the process.
Edit for the haters: go ask someone tomorrow how much a “score” is. Most people would have to look it up, which makes it inappropriate for a headline where “hundreds” is more appropriate.
Let’s take it to an extreme. By this logic, you’d be okay with killing everyone on earth to rescue your child. This includes me and my children. This is insane.
To answer directly I wouldn’t be okay with the military killing hundreds of civilians to save anyone of my family, myself included. Not sure where my number is but it’s at least an order of magnitude lower.
Congrats, you just found how terrorism is created. By violence. You just openly admitted that you will turn willfully a terrorist if the right conditions are met, e.g. someone endangers your child.
Now imagine how many Palestinian parents lost their children in this war. How do you think they feel?
And now imagine you were on the opposite side. How would you feel if someone kills your child, in the pursuit of saving their own? Would you still be so cool?
Huh? Ratios of 300 innocents per 1 terrorists killed are now the norm and we are definitely not hearing more about. It gets buried by the next “accident” where by “accident” destroy a hospital/school/refugee camp full of people
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