commie

@commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com

i am more than willing to engage on any positive claim you want to make (i probably agree with a lot of them). what i’m not willing to do is tolerate personal attacks and dogpiling.

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commie,

you’re naive to think you’ll ever get to vote again if he’s elected.

he was elected before and we’ve had votes since then.

commie,

A third party vote only matters when the message sent matters to the recipients.

if biden wins, he can’t possibly lose another election, so nothing would matter to him. but i reject outright the labeling of any party as “third party” or the idea that it’s supposed to send a message different from any other vote. when you vote, you are saying who you want to have the position. i don’t want biden to have it, so i won’t be voting for him.

commie,

Either vote third party or don’t waste your time voting.

commie,

Trump is a candidate that was placed there by the democrats so they can have a better chance in the elections.

commie,

There is literally zero evidence that “Trump is a candidate that was placed there by Democrats”.

salon.com/…/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentio…

commie,

There is zero historical evidence voting third party does anything more than get the worse of two evils in office

no such evidence is possible: you can’t prove a counterfactual. you can’t know who the worse evil would be. further it’s not clear that so-called “third party” voters actually impact elections at all unless their candidate wins.

commie,

This is the rhetoric of someone either not either not familiar with the political system, or intentionally trying to undermine the left by opening the door for conservatives.

false dichotomy. they may be familiar with the political system (even more than you or i), and not believe the same things you do. they may be a leftist. you are making up attacks on their person instead of dealing with the substance of their claims.

commie,

that’s a thought-terminating cliche like saying it’s common sense. if you can’t support your position, that’s no reason to go off attacking other people as malevolent or incompetent.

commie,

3rd parties have been around for decades and won nothing and only exacerbated the goals of said parties by undermining the only party that has tangible results.

this simply isn’t true and reflects a myopic view of history. so-called third parties have been with us almost since the inception of the us, and have accomplished things inconceivable to modern politicians.

commie,

You prove my point.

no, i don’t.

commie,

we can.

it’s impossible to prove a counterfactual. you are either unfamiliar with the scientific method or you are deliberately lying.

commie, (edited )

Nobody in the entire country would’ve disagreed with that strategy at the time

you are now shifting the goalposts from “it didn’t happen” to “it was a good idea”.


<span style="color:#323232;">That didn't happen.
</span><span style="color:#323232;">And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
</span><span style="color:#323232;">And if it was, that's not a big deal.
</span><span style="color:#323232;">And if it is, that's not my fault.
</span><span style="color:#323232;">And if it was, I didn't mean it.
</span><span style="color:#323232;">And if I did, you deserved it.
</span>
commie,

Trump is a Democratic plant colluding in disguise

no one said that.

commie,

lol.

an appeal to ridicule

commie,

Even the longest serving Independent in congressional history caucuses and ran as a Democrat.

so? that doesn’t prove that so-called third parties are impotent. it shows that one person made some questionable decisions.

commie,

what any third party from Libertarians to the Green Party have accomplished

the prohibition party got a constitutional amendment passed. the republican party completely usurped the whigs.

commie,

Have you even heard of Nader or Perot

yes, and i also know that their candidacy had nothing to do with who won the two elections they are (erroneously) credited with spoiling.

commie,

you deflected the aforementioned points.

this is ambiguous. what do you mean?

commie,

as i said, so-called third parties have been with us much longer and have accomplished things modern politicians could never conceive.

commie,

this is all just posturing and rhetoric. none of it speaks to the issue at hand.

commie,

any amount of research will show that, in fact, perot’s candidacy decreased clinton’s margin of victory, and gore won that election.

commie,

the civil rights act was not the work of the democrats or the republicans. it was the work of dedicated activists and, yes, other parties such as the black panther party. they exerted pressure onto the parties in government, and the parties in government acquiesced.

commie,

if you can’t use clear syntax, repeating yourself will do no good.

commie,

lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/9218081

you will see that the issue is the provability of whether so-called third parties can achieve anything, and whether it’s provable that voting for them has supported a “greater evil”. i have demonstrated the success of so-called third parties, and its prima facie impossible to prove a counterfactual.

commie,

perot’s campaign had a significant impact on the politics of the 90s, transforming the democrats from a party (accused of) supporting welfare to a party of … well… the fucking clintons.

commie,

3rd-party groups routinely spoil elections

no, they don’t. i reject the entire narrative of “spoiling” elections, as it presupposes that one party or another is owed (or owns outright) the votes. they do not. they must earn the votes, and if i so-called third party candidate earns the votes, tehy are not spoiling anything. they are doing what politicians are supposed to do: earn votes.

commie,

Yes, it was the Democrats who both supported and are primarily responsible for its passage.

… in congress. but they would have never proposed it if the writing weren’t on the wall, if the people in the streets had not made it a matter of import. giving the democrats credit is like giving bank tellers credit for financing bank robbers’ lifestyles.

commie,

but you’ve been told it’s not.

commie,

Bernie had an effect on the party too, except he did it in a way that didn’t backfire for progress.

if by that, you mean progressing the party to the right, you’re correct. he hasn’t reversed the course of the democrat party at all.

commie,

any time you want to make a bet a 3rd-party candidate winning versus one of the two primary parties

this is a red herring and doesn’t address the substance of our disagreement at all

commie,

I have proved both of these things.

you literally cannot prove a counterfactual, so claiming you have reeks of intellectual dishonesty

commie,

Historians, scholars, political-scientists all disagree

no, they don’t

commie,

he proverbial-equivalent of flat-earthers,

this is pigeonholing. you are trying to group me in with a (n unrelated) group of people and dismiss my valid assertions. it’s yet another mark of intellectual dishonesty

commie,

I’m pretty sure universal healthcare is more popular than ever among Democrats; and things like tuition reimbursement would’ve been inconceivable merely 10-years-ago.

that’s not leftist.

commie,

I can’t teach reading-comprehension over Lemmy.

your implication that the fault is mine is erroneous.

commie,

you’ve been suggesting, which is to vote third-party

lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/9217095

where?

commie,

bibi sent me a suitcase full of cash for you. where do you want me to leave it?

commie,

I want to be friends, so don’t tell me what to do.

commie,

github shows a hundred thousand repositories for the query “hangman”. assuming 10% of them are false positives it’s still a great number.

commie,

there are over one hundred fifty thousand results on github for “tictactoe”.

just how many paid games do you think there are, by the way?

commie,

“snake game” returns over one hundred twenty thousand results on github.

commie,

no, they don’t: people make things without being paid all the time.

commie,

you’re moving the goalposts.

commie,

you never mentioned ‘quality’ until you wanted to disqualify data that didn’t support your position.

commie,

You know it and you are simply arguing in bad faith

this is rich coming from someone who is moving the goal posts.

commie,

I know actual game developers who released their games for free or under a pay-what-you-want model. They refuse to do so again because they can’t support themselves by doing it. I am a game developer and I won’t release my games for free because I need to support myself. There is all the data you need.

the plural of “anecdote” is not “data”

commie,

your insistence on relevance is giving the lie to your denial about moving the goalposts.

commie,

everyone’s rights are controlled by politics

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