I have been considering replacing my nearly 7 year old iPhone (although very reluctant) and I was checking for options. Really the only phone that caught my eye was the Sony xperia 1 V, but I found no information about how to degoogle and lock down the device. I really like the features and the built in camera apps, etc. Is there a way to degoogle the phone without loosing the funcionality/ease of use?
All the Sony Xperia phones consistently & eventually make it to LineageOS mainline (so LineageOS for microG support too), but these ROMs don’t tend to come until near then end of a device’s 2 year warranty. I would assume that this is when they get cheap/used enough that developers can get their hands on them. Sony provides all the tools to unlock so it isn’t difficult or locked behind some centralized server for unlock keys. However, the nice cameras the come with… well you need their proprietary app unfortunately or the camera becomes a plenty bad device with the default LineageOS software.
On the plus side you get to support the only brand still shipping flagships with microSD, a headphone jack, and the ability to unlock bootloader (bonus the the 5s are <6" screens which is rough to find smaller phones now). Google Pixels won’t get you a headphone jack or microSD & Asus Zenfones don’t have unlockable bootloaders.
I have an xperia 1 iii running LineageOS w/microG and I was able to get and install the sony stock Photography Pro, Cinema Pro, and Videography Pro apps, however several features of these apps are missing, such as the ability to do panorama shots and other stuff.
Isn’t Sony far worse than Google in locking you into their platform and basically stealing your data? They gutted Helldivers and thru all their players under the bus by adding a PSN account requirement retroactively, even in countries that didn’t have the service. They only backpedaled because of the massive negative backlash. They have a history of installing root kits and treating their customers like absolute trash. And you want to go with them?? Yikes.
You are way better off getting a Pixel and then liberating it with Graphene.
Sony Corporation (which includes Sony Mobile) is not the same subsidiary as Sony Interactive Entertainment (which owns PlayStation). There is no reason to just blindly assume that the two companies have the exact same business structure. You talk about snake oil but the only one making baseless claims here is you.
They run by the same people bro. Please please please tell me you are trolling right now. Please. They all answer to the CEO of Sony in Japan. I can’t even right now with this stupid. Sony is trash. Every part of the world. Every product and service.
Another fundamental misunderstanding of how conglomerates work. There is not one person right at the top telling every single subsidiary to follow their evil master plan to the letter. Each division will be formulating its own strategies to meet whatever targets have been set.
Yeah, any security focused android ROM won’t include root because it breaks the android security model. Breaks the ability to have secureboot and system safety checks by apps.
The Xperia phones are often horrendously locked down and don’t provide bootloader unlocks all the time.
I would definitely recommend a Pixel device if you’re going to go De-Googling. That, or go select your desired ROM beforehand and buy whatever they support the best. You can find out if you look into Graphene or Calyx or Lineage as examples for which devices they support the best right now. Buy it unlocked, and unlock your bootloader.
This is the best suggestion for this purpose. Check out degoogled ROMs like e/os/, Divest, Graphene, Calyx, etc. Find which one better fits what you want, and then get a device that is 100% supported by that ROM.
To add to this I’d also pay attention to the Android version that the OS is based on. Last I checked e/OS is a few versions outdated. GrapheneOS works very very well, you (OP) just have to understand how to set it up for your use case.
The Xperia phones are often horrendously locked down
Not really, at least when compared to most other brands. I’ve had three or four different Xperia models, and unlocked the bootloader on every one of them using official Sony tools. They even have official open-source software archives, which are very helpful to people who build de-googled “ROMs”.
The one thing that has been especially locked down is the TA partition, which contains DRM keys used for Sony’s proprietary apps. It’s not needed for an open-source OS like LineageOS.
For this phone specifically, it looks like official LineageOS support is already underway, despite it being a fairly new model:
I would definitely recommend a Pixel device if you’re going to go De-Googling.
Pixels do have unusually good support for user-installed OS, but the irony here is that you can’t truly de-google them, because no OS will change the fact that Google controls the hardware and firmware.
That has been my experience with Sony phones, too. And as you (and I) pointed out, that device already has official LineageOS support so clearly it can be unlocked. I can only assume this is a regional problem or something. I know Japanese and American variants can have permanently locked bootloaders, which sometimes catches out second-hand purchasers who haven’t done their research.
The 1 V is officially supported by LineageOS. Installation instructions can be found here.
EDIT: I will add that support for this device is quite recent, and it is still very expensive even second-hand. You are relying on a volunteer maintainer who makes no commitments about how long they will support the device for, so I think it’s financially risky to buy the device purely based on it having LineageOS support now. You might want to consider the Xperia 1 III, which is two years older and significantly cheaper on the seocnd-hand market, but is otherwise quite similar to the 1 V. It has also received official LineageOS support for a longer period.
De-googling inherently causes functionality loss on Android because Google provides a lot of basic services via things like the Google Services Framework. It might be best for you to buy something cheap (secondhand Pixel?), install LineageOS, and then see how you like that before committing to something costly like an Xperia, especially since you're coming from iOS.
Isn’t there maybe a way to keep the factory os and selectively disable google services. Sort of no-script style? Not too familiar with the android ecosystem tbh, other than google is on top of the food chain, haha.
You can use Universal Android Debloater (updated fork here) to remove some applications, but it’s nothing on the level of a custom ROM. If you are really set on the hardware of the Xperia 1 V then I would recommend taking a look at this guide, written by @TheAnonymouseJoker. It has some advice for how you can achieve greater privacy on a non-Pixel Android device.
In principle, one could probably do this to a rooted phone by removing all the Google apps, and all the Google services, and giving up the other apps and services that depend on them. It would be a nontrivial task, and the steps would likely be different for each phone model (and possibly each OS version). I don’t know of a project that does this successfully. You might try searching xdaforums.com for someone who has done it.
However, I wouldn’t depend on Google services staying disabled when Google still controls the OS.
IMHO, it’s safer and easier to replace the entire OS.
The only functionality I’ve lost after migrating to a Pixel with GrapheneOS is the Android Device Policy (aka Work Profiles, the spyware your employer requires to use certain work apps)
Quite a lot of apps cease to provide real-time notifications/messages, if they work at all, when Google Play components are not installed under GOS. At the very least, Google Services Framework is required for many mainstream apps.
You do not need the “sandbox” since you can control Google packages permissions using AppOps mechanism. It is the gist of kdrag0n’s Sandboxed Play Services. You can manipulate any Android package in any way you want using a privileged AppOps permission controller and firewall with HOSTS or custom domain blocking.
What is Sandboxed Play Services? I’ve searched for it but I seem to find contradictory information. Looks like a feature that needs to be added explicitly to a ROM by its devs? It seems to have originated with GrapheneOS but there’s no mainstream support, in LineageOS for example.
It originated in kdrag0n’s Proton AOSP custom ROM. GrapheneOS just took it and rebranded it as their own invention, like Apple does.
Sandboxed Play Services merely restricts app permissions of Google Play related packages using AppOps mechanism, and probably restricts their networking a little bit. All this can be achieved on any Android phone without rooting or unlocking via ADB/Shizuku and a firewall.
Oh that’s interesting. So basically it’s just Google apps running in userspace as opposed to system apps, and subject to any restriction you can throw at user apps? I imagine that Xprivacy would work too in that case.
Pretty much, you understood. This is the kinds of justification I have for fancy custom ROMs like GrapheneOS being the equivalent of snake oil. Some bad actors try to twist it as me being malicious, even though I am just telling the facts about how things really are. They do not make life easier, they do not make privacy easy to attain, they make it harder or impossible to use everyday apps, and they forbid you to question their product or motives. FUCK THAT NOISE.
It just doesn’t allow you to use the Android Device Policy work profile which makes it so you can’t log into Slack for work (for example) if it depends on the work policy spyware being active on your phone.
I get that for some people that’s a non-starter but for me who vehemently supports and exercises my Right To Disconnect, not having spyware on my phone for work is a good riddance.
For work you should anyway demand a separate phone from company, or company budget for separate phone. Never run company spyware on your own phone. Tell them you will buy the absolute dirt cheap phone for work purposes, and will not be usable outside of work hours.
I really dislike this trend of suggesting people to buy Google phones specifically to de-Google them. Like, shouldn’t we be avoiding giving them sales?
I get it, the phones are decent. I just think it’s kind of counter-intuitive.
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