RCS vs SMS/MMS?

So in the new upcoming major feature update for IOS, Apple is adding RCS support in there messaging app. What are the privacy implications of adopting RCS?

Is there any other apps that have RCS support on Android other than Google’s own messaging app?

The reason for my asking is because I was considering migrating my relatives’ messaging app to a RCS supported one because they will probably most likely enjoy the extra bandwidth of RCS.

Note, they’re already using Signal, Telegram, and WhatsApp for most of their conversations.

possiblylinux127,

I personally won’t use anything that is a closed standard like RCS. At the end of the day it depends on Google and the Google proprietary app.

We have MMS, Signal, Simplex Chat and Matrix to name a few

I think it would be cool if the FCC came up with a new standard but if they did it probably would serve the agenda on the NSA.

helenslunch, (edited )
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

What are the privacy implications of adopting RCS?

RCS is not encrypted. At least the non-Google version isn’t. I think Apple is working on that with the GSMA or whatever they’re called.

So, Signal > iMessage > RCS > Telegram > WhatsApp > SMS

Is there any other apps that have RCS support on Android other than Google’s own messaging app?

I think Samsung. But then you need a Samsung, which is its own problem.

Otherwise no, but there may be more soon since it’s being adopted by Apple.

possiblylinux127,

Signal is the only one that is open. However, Simplex Chat is better.

lemmyvore, (edited )

I’m fairly sure the only reason for which Apple is using RCS is to circumvent the EU DSA, which requires them to make iMessage interoperable with other chat systems. So instead of opening access to iMessage they’re using a completely different system as a distraction.

I mean, they could’ve said that iMessage is already interoperable via SMS but the feature disparity is too large. RCS will serve nicely to confuse the issue.

There’s otherwise nothing to gain for Apple by adopting RCS. iMessage already does everything RCS does and more.

They could also kill RCS tomorrow if they wanted to, by simply releasing iMessage for Android. But then they wouldn’t have a red herring to show the EU — if anything they’d be in an even worse position as per DSA. It would also antagonize Google although I’m not sure how much they care about that.

ssm, (edited )
@ssm@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Encrypted XMPP/IRC+ZNC/other plain text protocol is the best. Mobile data is everywhere and cheap, especially for text messages. Only one person has to do the heavy lifting setting up the server on a VPS with encryption; connecting the clients is easy. The hard part is getting people to use them when network providers and Android/iOS devs shoehorn SMS/MMS/RCS as the default and only option.

TCB13,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

Here’s the problem, RCS isn’t a truly open thing and Google kind of maintains a lot of the software that even carriers use for it. It essentially opens the door for the tech companies to take over yet another big chunk of the carrier services and tap into more user’s data at the network level.

In June 2019, Google announced that it would begin to deploy RCS on an opt-in basis via the Messages app, with service compliant with the Universal Profile and hosted by Google rather than the user’s carrier, if the carrier does not provide RCS

In October 2019, the four major U.S. carriers announced an agreement to form the Cross-Carrier Messaging Initiative (CCMI) to jointly implement RCS using a newly developed app. This service was to be compatible with the Universal Profile.[33] However, this carrier-made app never came to fruition. By 2021, both T-Mobile and AT&T signed deals with Google to adopt Google’s Messages app.[34][35][36] In 2023, T-Mobile and AT&T agreed to use Google Jibe to implement RCS services, and in 2024 Verizon agreed to use Google Jibe.

Apple stated it will not support Google’s end-to-end encryption extension over RCS, but would work with GSMA to create an RCS encryption standard.

BearOfaTime, (edited )

Plus it’s still tied to a phone number.

Why do I need another shitty messaging app that’s tied to my phone number, in the 21st century, when I’ve had proper hardware-independent network-based, cross-platform, messaging apps on my phone since 2009?

gianni,
@gianni@lemmy.ca avatar

Because RCS is a replacement for SMS/MMS.

bloubz,

RCS is just SMS experience through Google’s servers, just like what you have with iMessage. It may even be worse in term of what the companies extracts from your messages. Only usage I could see is if you want to use a matrix bridge that only works with RCS, like Beeper (since Apple does not enjoy users signing in with the iMessage bridge)

Oher than that, I enjoyed RCS messages when I was a Google fanboi and did not care about privacy. It still offers a better “security” than regular SMS, but you chose to deliver your texts to Google

Virkkunen,
@Virkkunen@fedia.io avatar

RCS does not go through Google servers. RCS with Google's profile do, which is not the case with Apple as they are using the universal profile.

bloubz,

Oh thanks for correcting me

lemmyvore,

It will go through Google servers if you want to talk to an Android user… If Apple implemented RCS only for its own users there wouldn’t be much point to it. 🙂

BearOfaTime,

And anything going from Apple to another Apple won’t be via RCS.

GolfNovemberUniform,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

Just continue using Signal. Why change it to something else and worse?

Comexs,

My family already uses signal as are default form of communication between each but the point that I forgot to add was for the 1% of conversation. Some of my family member have there own businesses that mostly use email but when we are in the field we use regular SMS/MMS/imessage for quick communication between “us” and the client. At least here we most only use plain SMS or iMessage if applicable is used because most people see messaging apps like Signal, WhatsApp and other third party apps for personal use only.

GolfNovemberUniform,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

I think using the RCS can raise legal issues if Google/Apple collects the messages, especially if you’re in the EU. I don’t remember how RCS works and I heard it can be E2E encrypted but seeing the comments makes me less sure about the safety of using it in a business environment. SMS isn’t encrypted at all and easy to intercept but there’s less chance of it being automatically collected for marketing purposes.

Using apps is better tbh unless you make your own apps to create more bloat and fragmentation. Here where I live nobody uses SMS anymore.

ForgotAboutDre,

Pretty much all RCS goes through Google servers. They control all the implementations, even in the cases where a carrier has implemented it themselves they likely use Google Jibe system.

If your speaking to someone over RCS you should expect Google to be involved. Even with apple implementing it on iPhone. iPhones are likely to default to iMessage between each other, so the other user is likely an android so messages are getting routed through Google. It’s likely apples decision was based on pressure from Google and the billions of dollars they give apple every year.

Google has repeatedly made attempts to make a messaging app that have failed. RCS is their chosen method to get access to app messaging metadata and it looks to be working. They are displacing text messaging and making it look like nothings changed.

GolfNovemberUniform,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

Doesn’t look like a good place for business communication, especially if there’s some secrecy to it which is not a rare case.

ItsComplicated,

They are displacing text messaging and making it look like nothings changed.

They get more of your data, so there’s that.

Zak,
@Zak@lemmy.world avatar

most people see messaging apps like Signal, WhatsApp and other third party apps for personal use only.

In Europe, businesses, especially small businesses often use WhatsApp, to the point of putting its logo next to their phone number on signs. I wonder what creates the perception where you are that messaging apps are for personal use, not business.

lemmyvore,

I’d be more interested to know what they think iMessage is, if not a messaging app…

Zak,
@Zak@lemmy.world avatar

It seems like at least some people view apps that come preinstalled on their phone differently from other apps, but I’m not sure why.

ItsComplicated,

If only Signal were the default messaging app!!!

GolfNovemberUniform, (edited )
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

Any good app/product that becomes very popular will be inevitably acquired by an evil company at some point. That’s why the default cannot be good.

ItsComplicated,

But don’t you just get tired of jumping through hoops for every little thing these days?

Big tech needs to stop being evil. There, problem solved, right…right…ha

GolfNovemberUniform,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

But don’t you just get tired of jumping through hoops for every little thing these days?

Do you know that everything in the universe has a price so it stays balanced? Same goes to this. You either deal with it (spend effort) or switch to a worse (evil) option where you pay with your data (much more valuable thing) to get more consistency.

Big tech needs to stop being evil.

Not gonna happen. Even if you put highly moral or religious people on the management, someone will find a way to ruin it. The bigger the project gets, the bigger effort bad actors will be ok with taking to take over it. The xz vulnerability is the perfect example. The bad actor there spent like 2 years to get trust of the main developer.

helenslunch,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

The only company that can acquire Signal is another non-profit.

GolfNovemberUniform,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

There’s also the government that can force them to add some PhotoDNA or backdoor related stuff, as well as give them some mandatory-to-note “suggestions”. It will be hard to hide it because it’s an open-source project but the server side is not and the government may just ban the app altogether.

helenslunch,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

No they can’t. Signal has and will pull out of countries before caving to that.

EngineerGaming,
@EngineerGaming@feddit.nl avatar

Still, a decentralized protocol, not a platform, would have a much easier time circumventing stupid laws like this, as well as censorship.

helenslunch, (edited )
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

If you want to argue about their centralized nature, we can, and I will agree, but that’s not what we were discussing.

Zak,
@Zak@lemmy.world avatar

Signal, being owned by a nonprofit has a bit more resistance to that than most.

That’s the main reason I recommend it over alternatives with similar technical capabilities, such as WhatsApp.

makeasnek,
@makeasnek@lemmy.ml avatar

Separate apps more focused on privacy will always be better than RCS/SMS/whatever the mainstream option is.

borari,

With the higher character limits you can just PGP encrypt your text outside of the message client and send the encrypted block via RCS or literally any other secure or insecure band you want.

oranki,

Great way to keep in touch with the the in-laws

borari,

Just mail them yubikeys with the pgp keys already generated!

Honestly I thought my sarcasm would have been picked up on lol.

oranki,

Lemmy is still a bit too hard core to get sarcasm in things like these

BearOfaTime,

Gotta use /s to ensure it’s understood.

Text lacks tone.

lemmyvore,

You just need an app that does this transparently.

Oh wait, that’s why Google isn’t letting anybody else use RCS. 😄

refalo,

What are the privacy implications of adopting RCS?

When it first came out, I specifically remember that trying to turn it on in the messages app makes you agree to hand over all your messages to google, so I never used it. But now it just seems to support it anyways, so not sure what happened to the agreement I never clicked on.

ForgotAboutDre,

You’ve likely accepted it without knowing, or at least been registered as accepting. Google are using dark patterns all over android to get away with this sort of thing.

What are you going to do, sue them.

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