wise_pancake,

Janeway was wrong to kill Tuvix and the ends did not justify the means. We have no idea how Tuvix would have performed long term, but he was generally better than the sum of his parts.

To kill a sentient being, effective in his role and pleading for his life, just so you can feel less sad, is a crime.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

This is for hot takes, friend.

DragonTypeWyvern,

If a topic is contentious within the community, doesn’t that mean all takes are hot takes?

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Hot take!

Infynis,
@Infynis@midwest.social avatar

The mirror universe sucks. It adds nothing to the franchise, and the episodes that involve it are some of the worst in every series

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

100% agreed. They should have forgotten about it after the one TOS episode. I like that episode a lot though.

ummthatguy,
@ummthatguy@lemmy.world avatar
FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Honestly? Queer representation by characters in a universe where everyone is evil is, in some ways, a step backward.

ummthatguy,
@ummthatguy@lemmy.world avatar

That shit’s on Berman. Mirror Kira was such a fun character, allowing Nana to chew up the scenery.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Mirror Kira was fun in that sense, but honestly, I don’t feel like the mirror universe stories added much to DS9 and there are other ways she can show her range.

Telodzrum,

Her episode where she’s supposed to evict a farmer from his land is one of the best examples of both Kira as a character and Nana’s ability as an actor.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I agree that she definitely had opportunities to show range in the character of Kira, but I was thinking of the many ‘alternate version of X character’ Star Trek plots that don’t involve the mirror universe they could have gone with if the goal was ‘this actor plays a totally different character.’ DS9 itself even did that, like with the Benny Russell episodes.

AnarchistArtificer,

Big agree. I also want the option of having evil, edgy queers who aren’t from the mirror universe, but that would only make sense against a backdrop of more representation in general

wise_pancake,

I skip every mirror universe episode.

thesmokingman,

Is it a hot take to say the Shatnerverse mirror universe kicks ass?

MajorHavoc,

I dunno. It does kick ass, though.

hallettj,
@hallettj@leminal.space avatar

My guess is they had fun making these episodes, and that’s why they kept going

MajorHavoc,

Tuvok alone was worth killing Tuvix for. Resurrecting Neelix was a happy accident.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I loved Neelix, especially when it was revealed that pretty much all of his bowing and scraping and his jealousy could be explained by having extreme PTSD after seeing almost his entire species get wiped out, but it was always clear to me that Ethan Phillips played Neelix with a lot of sadness hidden behind his behavior.

After Kes left, he was also a much better character.

MajorHavoc,

Yeah, I actually love the character, and Ethan’s portrayal.

I’m really just being spicy.

That said, only one half of Tuvix was capable of operating Trek’s famous science-magic-saves-the-ship interface(s).

essell,

You misspelled unhappy

TotallyNotSpez,

Neelix is the greatest character on Voyager.

ummthatguy,
@ummthatguy@lemmy.world avatar
TotallyNotSpez,

I will not tolerate this sort of Neelix slander.

ummthatguy,
@ummthatguy@lemmy.world avatar

I love Neelix, with his toxic positivity and being a perfect foil for Tuvok. Mostly been looking for an excuse to use that gif.

TotallyNotSpez,

That’s fair, I’m always amazed about how you come up with the most bonkers GIFs in almost every Star Trek thread.

ummthatguy,
@ummthatguy@lemmy.world avatar

They’re not mine. I just have a knack for sourcing. Do a gif search for swear trek and enjoy losing a lot of productivity.

https://files.catbox.moe/ly9hxs.gif

ininewcrow,
@ininewcrow@lemmy.ca avatar

It’s only page one … the other 27 pages are in my room

Shalakushka,
@Shalakushka@kbin.social avatar

Neelix is basically the only character on Voyager, the writing is so wildly inconsistent or not present at all for the human characters other than maybe B'ellanna. The writers so clearly did not give a shit on VOY.

ETA I guess it does become the Seven of Nine show eventually, hardly an improvement, but she is technically a character (mean Data with T&A and PTSD).

MaggiWuerze,

Tsundere Data

wise_pancake,

My wife stopped watching with me because she couldn’t stand Neelix as the comedy relief in the early seasons.

darthelmet,

I didn’t actually have a problem with the way Enterprise ended. Setting aside the actual quality of the episode, I think the framing device connecting the beginning and ending of this era of Star Trek was fitting given that this was the end of Star Trek for the foreseeable future.

MajorHavoc,

Yeah. The ending was foreshadowed plenty. The part that hurts is we got 45 minutes instead of the full season that they clearly planned on.

darthelmet,

Oh yeah. I guess it’s kind of a shame that we didn’t get to see a longer story for the founding of the Federation.

Tippon,

Strange New Worlds has painted itself somewhat into a corner by being a prequel.

It’s a great series, but if Spock and Uhura are in trouble, and the only way to save them is for that nice James Kirk fella to sacrifice himself, well, we know that there’s a twist coming.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

My bigger issue with SNW Uhura is it’s taking way too long to become the super confident TOS Uhura.

ummthatguy,
@ummthatguy@lemmy.world avatar

And will we see any of that Uhura before the show’s end? The next season will likely be their last, the way Paramount’s going.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

That’s what I’m worried about too.

match,
@match@pawb.social avatar

Are we not counting Musical!Uhura as super confident?

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

No, because she was under the influence.

ummthatguy,
@ummthatguy@lemmy.world avatar
FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I think whoever wrote that episode was doing Ketracel White. Not that I’m complaining.

Telodzrum,

This is always going to be the problem with series set before canon events and it’s long been an issue I had with them. I know it’s easier to write historical fiction in an established universe and you can dodge some of this by going back far enough (see: ENT); but, it is always going to feel hesitant and a bit uninspired.

ummthatguy,
@ummthatguy@lemmy.world avatar

Pretty sure that’s been established as the concensus by now.

My contribution is that Harry Kim deserved to stay an ensign. Considering how often his impulse or libido resulted in disaster (or his own death), he would have been kicked out of Starfleet entirely. Lucky for him, they were stranded in the Delta Quadrant and Janeway needed bodies.

DharkStare,

Also, IIRC the few times he was in command, he wasn’t any good at it.

ummthatguy,
@ummthatguy@lemmy.world avatar

The ship in distress he decided to help. Turns out they were smuggling a cloak prototype to defend against a warring faction. Look at our little Ensign Kim, breaking the Prime Directive for the first time. They grow up so quick.

Infynis,
@Infynis@midwest.social avatar

I skip that episode on rewatches. Way too much second hand embarrassment

tigeruppercut,

I literally just watched that one last week, and had zero memory of it. I don’t think that’s happened w any other voyager ep for me

OsaErisXero,

I think Harry picks up too many strays. If Voyager wasn't in the Delta quadrant, he would have gotten happily promoted up to Lt. Commander of some Miranda or California and retired as a mildly interesting officer who never did anything of note (or gets got in the cold open of some other more interesting ship's episode). In fact, that so many randos who just happened to be on Voyager can hang with the level of bullshit that ship got up to would be a statistical anomaly if it wasn't 100% certain that some Future Janeway stacked the deck during assignments for that mission to the badlands.

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