(Read before Comment) Why you don't like GIMP UI?

For what i heard, a lot of people on the Linux community use Krita for image manipulation, even though, it’s intended for digital painting, and GIMP is the one intended for image manipulation, because people don’t like the GIMP’s UI.

My issue is, i never understood why they don’t like the GIMP’s UI, since i never have issues with it,(Although it’s probably because i’m used to the UI) so i need to adress this problem and ask you What does the GIMP UI has that you don’t like or hate so much and why you like Krita’s UI over GIMP’s?

Before you event comment your answer i need to ask you to do the following:

  1. Address each specific issue along with an concise and direct explanation of why you don’t like it
  2. Answers such as “I just don’t like it”, “I don’t like where it’s placed” or anything alike doesn’t count as “Concise and Direct”, we are adults, not 4 year old children.
  3. If you can provide a suggestion of how GIMP’s UI can be improved, it would help a lot, and maybe this issue can be solved.
  4. If someone else commented something you were about to comment, upvote them, this way we can address the most common issues effectively.
  5. I need you to watch the screenshots of both UI’s, because something that most people don’t know, it’s how similar Krita and GIMP’s UIs are.

Krita’s UI https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/60b262a6-7c9c-44f3-8c9b-86200b544f45.png

GIMP’s UI https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/5c01ee4e-2a3c-485d-891b-36a4edd66d62.png

(Credits to a friend of mine for lettig me use the screenshots.)

My ideas on how GIMP can improve it’s UI

  1. Adding the option of the new UI selected by default, but with the possibility to switch to the new UI.
  2. Possibly addding “work spaces” like Krita would help too, along with the possibility of exporting and importing them, this way people can have custom arrangements of the UI according to the kind of work they will do.

Thanks for reading and hopefully we can address this issue effectively.

dustyData, (edited )

All I want is to GIMP to save tabs layout as workspaces. That is enough. Part of GIMP hate is based on 15 year old complaints. Just like people still complains today about stuff of Linux that has been resolved for decades. It’s just memery that has stuck around.

There are issues with GIMP, but none are about the stuff most people meme about in social media. Every tool has room to grow, but GIMP UI suffers from the “too amateur to know what’s wrong” loud majority effect. Imagine someone who has no concept of music appreciation in their lives sits at the front of a grand organ. Then proceeds to complain that the pedals get in the way of sitting on the stool and that he founds the three keyboards redundant and unintuitive. This notion is valid, from his point of view. But it informs nothing about the usability of that particular instrument for a professional organ player.

The same thing tends to happen with several software packages, specially the open source ones. Since they don’t have the industry standard tag, they don’t get any leniency when it comes to learning their features and capabilities. Then, when the amateur checks them out, they don’t compare it to the industry standard (which does have a leniency license) but compare it to the simplified, accessible for everyone and strip down apps. These people don’t have the foresight to understand that this tool is capable of way more than their reference point, and the initial friction is an indicator of their inexperience, not of the tool’s quality or potential.

The amateur is more comfortable sitting in front of a Casio learner piano. And we shouldn’t lend much credence to their feedback about the ergonomics or key feel of a Steinway concert grand.

NoiseColor,

You are complaining about the amateur? A pro will never use gimp. Ps is too integrated into professional work, not too mention it has a better ux, it’s more stable, uses more for formats, had better support,… The semi pros still prefer to use affinity. You are only left with amateurs! And still, they prefer to use krita, a program not even meant for this kind of work!!!

There is no doubt that there are big problems with gimp.

dustyData, (edited )

You missed the point of my post. You’re right in that you are left with amateurs as an audience. But, and it is a big but, the amateurs aren’t comparing you to Photoshop, they are comparing you to the UX friendly app they have on their phone (no matter if they say otherwise). Yet the pro won’t ever give GIMP any chance because it doesn’t carry the “industry standard” label and the privilege that comes with it. When people are learning graphic design or photoediting they are mandated to learn Photoshop. Either by a rigid teaching system or the cultural environment prevalent amongst the people with strong passion to learn on their own. The result is that a lot of UX and UI quirks and headaches (which photoshop does have, let’s not lie to ourselves here) are overlooked or just accepted as the norm. Humans can adapt to a lot of fuckery and bad design, that doesn’t make it good UX. GIMP does not have the label, leniency or benefit of the doubt from anyone. Just read this thread, people complaining and whining about the default layout. No one has addressed the things that GIMP does better UX wise or when ways to overcome its shortcoming are mentioned people react with hostility and denial. Most even admit that they have never used GIMP or that they have no business anywhere near an image editor. But here we are, discussing the opinions of the peanut gallery based on feefees and second hand vibes.

NoiseColor,

Pros don’t give gimp a chance but many of us still test try it. It’s not viable, not only because Adobe is a must have because of interoperability but because it’s faster to work in, it’s faster, more stable, more supported,… literally there is no category in which it was worse. Ux is not the best for sure, but it’s still way better than gimp. Even more, everything works in the same patterns as the users expect. Same as other graphical programs. It’s easier to use, easier to switch, easier to use similar software. That’s ux. Gimp doesn’t have that.

Because of all that, it doesn’t have a target audience beyond someone who is just very determined to use something free.

dustyData, (edited )

See, the thing with this argument is that, however much I agree with the basic idea, it’s still not useful. We can agree, sure, that overall the UI and UX (two different things) on GIMP is not as subjectively good as Photoshop. But saying, it’s easier, it’s faster, it’s whatever, still does not help at all. It’s still all just vibes and impressions, it’s not actionable.

“The default UI is not like Photoshop” is inactionable. It’s different from the opinions I left on this thread. That GIMP need to have a way to save and reload layouts, that’s an specific feedback, concise, concrete and actionable. I also agree that some workflows take too many clicks, maybe have simplified tools to do common actions. That is also actionable, specific, concrete.

Your comment offers nothing to go on with. It even manages to ignore and bypass my criticism, it doesn’t address the “Industry standard” bias and privilege. Because when pros try GIMP the response “It doesn’t work the way I expected and are used to, so I don’t like it” is a garbage feedback. The only thing you are offering is “clone photoshop”, and that’s just not what the project has ever been about, or will ever be about. So the conversation is fruitless.

NoiseColor,

What is actionable? Maybe this :Make ux more like ps so more people will be able to use it or want to use it? :)

You want small things to fix? Small actionable things. I’m saying there is a broader issue that you cannot easily patch. I don’t care about your criticism of ps, many people have tons of criticism, I have tons, none of it matters with the situation at hand.

What was gimp project about? Pushing users away with design patterns that exist nowhere else?

dustyData, (edited )

OK, in terms you understand. The criticism “GIMP is not like Photoshop” is crap advice, its shit and your shitty attitude is offensive and insulting to the hard work of devs. Go keep sucking the adobe boot since you seem to like the taste of dirt on leather so much. “Just clone Photoshop” is a meme useless attitude to have.

NoiseColor,

In sorry I hurt your feelings, but come on. Read what you just wrote. Seriously? Lol.

pogodem0n,

It doesn’t scale properly on my HiDPI laptop display, which I use at 200% scale (Plasma 6, Wayland). Some things are too big and others too small. Hopefully GIMP 3 will bring good scaling support with GTK 3. Still, I love GIMP and will continue to use it over any alternatives.

everett,

Same deal here. Text is too big, tool icons are just about right, brushes and patterns are microscopic.

RayOfSunlight,

This actually makes sense, have you tried reporting this to the devs?

dsemy,

It will be fixed in GIMP 3, the current stable release uses GTK 2 (doesn’t supoort Wayland natively).

RayOfSunlight,

Let’s hope so, i’m not a Linux user yet, but i am CRAVING for the day GIMP 3.0 launches at last, it’s a great software along with Krita, Blender, Kdenlive, Inkscape and Godot engine.

Andy,
@Andy@programming.dev avatar

I have trouble with both, but more experience with GIMP. I can’t stand all the little tool buttons with no text. I want the name of each tool always visible on its button.

I have the same problem with Inkscape.

RayOfSunlight,

You know you can do this, right? https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/953b5fc7-0a20-4859-9b76-95afbdcef497.png

Andy,
@Andy@programming.dev avatar

I don’t know what I should be noticing there. I can’t see any text for the tool buttons along the left edge of the window.

RayOfSunlight,

Look at the default GIMP layout and my post and compare it with the one i gave you

Andy,
@Andy@programming.dev avatar

OK, I see some differences between your two screenshots, but what’s the relevance to my comment?

RayOfSunlight,

What i mean is, you can Rearrange the UI to look like Photoshop.

Andy,
@Andy@programming.dev avatar

So . . . not relevant to my comment?

HubertManne,

This sounds a lot like how people would use windows paint for simple things over photoshop. Many folks just want a simplified tool. I was estatic to find out firefox now gives simple pdf editing capabilities instead of me importing it into libre office draw.

RayOfSunlight,

I guess i am so used to the layout i barely have a problem, but finding things in GIMP, isn’t it the same as Photoshop? I mean, maybe not for Krita, but in GIMP you can change the settings so the tools are all visible instead of being on little boxes.

HubertManne,

Im not sure but im guessing most people complain because they want something intuitive and easy although my wife uses photoshop and I could not get her to use gimp so the layout must be different to some degree.

RayOfSunlight,

You can modify the UI to make it look like Photoshop, there are two ways for this:

  1. Making GIMP look like Photoshop CC 2020 by Davis Media Design youtu.be/dY7g2JGyJeQ?si=AQ3uYQxHb7uG0xd3
  2. Installing the PhotoGIMP addon for GIMP, also by Davis Media Design youtu.be/57DNUsf4A-0?si=XSCZhf_6rf4k25qx

I would personally recommend the first one, but it’s up to you.

HubertManne,

thing is I don't use photoshop. my wife does. its hard to explain her personality but im not using any convincing chips on this particular battle as we have more important things to get handled. Maybe someday.

RayOfSunlight,

Well, here’s one final advice from my part.

Go slow and gradual

Changes are not easy, you need to get hang of GIMP before makig the switch, try it, learn to use it, see if you like it.

Another alternative is Photopea, but it’s propietary and it’s a browser application, although it’s available in Flathub.

Stovetop,

I have not used either, but I can say that Krita’s UI is closer to Photoshop than GIMP’s appears to be. That might be why people are opting for that application, for the sense of familiarity if they were trained on Photoshop.

I will say that any application which is used for digital painting should also be good at image manipulation, so if Krita does both well, I can see why it would be preferred over GIMP if the painting tools are lacking.

Looking over the screenshots, for GIMP, I am hoping that is not the default layout of tools. Having a jumbled block of icons is a lot harder to visually parse than a stack of pairs. I also find myself wondering why they use up so much space on the left to include a weird cutout of their mascot above the tools.

On the right, I am also not sure why the layer thumbnails are pushed so far to the right when they could be immediately adjacent to the visibility toggle.

It doesn’t look terrible to me, but I am not surprised that people using an app for visual design might be more critical of design flaws in the app itself.

dustyData, (edited )

Krita lacks a lot of tools to work with photography. It’s OK with general image manipulation but you have to really struggle to do anything that’s not digital painting.

That said. The left side of GIMP is wide because the tool options are under the tool’s icons. While Krita has them on the top as a bar.

Both programs let you move and change the layout to whatever you want, though. No one serious about using either program uses the default. There’s a bunch of stuff you don’t need to use that only takes up space when you’re just doing one particular task. Hence why saving and reloading layouts is such a powerful feature.

EDIT: Here is, for example, my layout. https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/7371cbe2-3e9e-4090-85e1-0a71b5712c76.png

Also, the little logo on the corner has a purpose. It’s a small area where you can drag and drop any image file from your file explorer and it will automatically open the file for editing, instead of pasting it on the current open project as a new layer. It’s super useful.

Stovetop,

That does look better.

For the drag and drop space, however, would a simple “Right Click > Open In” not be easier? Or just dragging the file over the application on the taskbar?

dustyData,

It’s there for convenience. Easy is a very subjective term in this context. Everyone has a different concept of what is easy on a computer. The fact that drag and drop has two, completely differentiated but equally instantly available verbs, is already above and beyond the amount of options other software packages offer.

RayOfSunlight,

Hey look, voilá, this is entirely possible https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/8b4d6177-9a5c-4bab-a9e1-3baac24447fb.png

RayOfSunlight,

You know you can change the UI and Keybinds to make it more alike to Photoshop, right?

gerryflap,
@gerryflap@feddit.nl avatar

Now admittedly I’m not someone who often uses drawing programs, but my biggest issue in GIMP is that I never seem to be able to find what I’m looking for.

In the two images you posted you can actually see an example of such a case. In Krita all the tools (or whatever you’d call them) in the bar on the left are ordered in a logical way, and separate types of tools are also visually separated by separator lines. The bar with tools is also only 2 icons wide, which makes scanning for the right tool a bit easier, since you can mostly just scan along the vertical axis. In GIMP it’s just a pile of low contrast icons in seemingly random order. Unless you’ve used it enough to know the order, you’re gonna have to do a lot more searching. And searching will be way harder since you’ll have to search horizontally and vertically.

It’s like reading a website where the text is taking the whole with of the screen and without paragraphs (GIMP) vs reading a website where the line length is constrained, the text is horizontally centered, and there are proper paragraphs.

I feel like this example reflects my personal experience with both. I’ve used quite a few different types of image editing programs, and with most of them I can fairly easily find the stuff I need. Using GIMP however, I used to be quite lost. Nowadays it’s gotten better because the windows are not all floating around and I’ve used it more. But still, I only found Krita after using a fair bit of GIMP, and yet I felt instantly more at home because the UI was easier to navigate.

Edit: That being said, GIMP is a very cool program. I don’t want to hate on it too much. It’s helped me countless times. The UI has already improved a lot since the floaty window days, and I hope that continues.

WalrusDragonOnABike,

Changing icons to color helps me find which ones I’m looking for. Seems weird it defaults to it looking like they’re greyed out because they won’t work on the current selection.

zout,

For me all the things you said about GIMP, but my biggest issue is how layers work in it. It is totally unintuitive to me. Last week I tried to edit some simple image in GIMP, basically pasting some small objects and touching them up. I couldn't get it to work properly, and would probably have redone it in Photoshop if it was to be used by more than three people for a short period.

RayOfSunlight,

Dude, you can put the tools on the same way as Krita, just look at this https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/520a1947-9633-4d55-bbfe-edb4cdc47c82.png

fuckwit_mcbumcrumble,

you can

That’s the key. can. It needs to not suck by default. If people have to tweak the program to be usable first then nobody’s going to want to use your program.

RayOfSunlight,

The deal is, it’s not mine, it’s a Libre Software, so it belongs to everyone, not just me.

fuckwit_mcbumcrumble,

That’s cool. I’m not going to fix software I don’t like.

pop,

no one asked you to?

gerryflap,
@gerryflap@feddit.nl avatar

Can, but not by default. The default setup is what leaves an impression on most users. Most users opening GIMP for the first time expect to be able to find stuff that they need, not have to first spend a lot of time getting familiar with all of its options. It shouldn’t be needed to first spend time opening all the sane default windows and re-aliging stuff every time you boot it for the first time. At least, that shouldn’t be the case of GIMP wants to be as popular with non-technical users like Krita is.

Also, the tool bar still doesn’t have the nice separations between tool functions, and it still feel a bit more chaotic. Not sure of it’s the icons or the order.

RayOfSunlight,

I hate it when people are SO quick to judge and so superficial

gerryflap,
@gerryflap@feddit.nl avatar

You call it “quick to judge and superficial”, but imo that’s the wrong attitude. Every tool we use as humans should be designed to be as intuitive as possible. It makes it easiest for people to learn how to use a new tool. That doesn’t mean that a tool cannot be complex or customizable, but the default experience should make it easy for new users to quickly achieve something. Once they grow accustomed to the tool they can tailor it their own way.

No tool has to do this, but if it wants to be widely used then this is kinda necessary.

There’s a reason why there are whole fields of study into human media interaction, and why software companies hire UI designers. Everything that doesn’t have to be explained in words and text because it is intuitive saves mental overhead for the user and makes the application more accessible.

aniki,

Does GIMP even scale with monitor ratios? That was a huge problem last time I tried it. It’s a 4k world out there.

RayOfSunlight,

I cannot answer you that, i don’t have a 4k monitor and i’m not filthy rich to get one, this is latin america my dude.

LazaroFilm,
@LazaroFilm@lemmy.world avatar

You seem to have a pretty big monitor. Try it on a 13” laptop and you’ll see why it’s harder to use.

dustyData,

You can press the TAB button to temporarily hide all menus. It helps when working on small screens.

LazaroFilm,
@LazaroFilm@lemmy.world avatar

Which isn’t as easy as having the tools right there.

dustyData, (edited )

You can click the tool, configure it, then hit tab to work on the image. Then tab again to click on the new tool, tab, work on the image. It’s a nice and simple workflow. I don’t know what to tell you, it’s not rocket surgery. I mean, you’re the one trying to do image work on a tiny ass screen. I’m giving you a neat trick that worked perfectly for me. Sorry it is not good enough for you, I guess.

LazaroFilm,
@LazaroFilm@lemmy.world avatar

I hear you. And I use that for many situations. All I’m saying is most complaints likely come from users with small screens and the fact that the default tool setup is so large makes it hard.

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