‘Not a normal war’: doctors say children have been targeted by Israeli snipers in Gaza

Israeli and foreign human rights groups have documented a long history of snipers firing on unarmed Palestinians, including children, in Gaza and the West Bank.

Palestinians in Gaza also report a terrifying new development in the latest Gaza war – armed drones able to hover over streets and pick off individuals. Called quadcopters, some of these drones are used as remote-control snipers that Palestinians say have been used to shoot civilians.

IndustryStandard,

Going to leave this here because it is important people start seeing actual footage of these sniped children

NSFL: video

anon987,

As sad as it is, this is completely normal in war, the US did this to thousands of children in the middle east.

“Most children killed and injured directly by U.S. forces and their allies were killed the same way as their parents: they died when bombs fell; when they were caught in ‘cross-fire’; shot in night raids; shot at check-points and run over by U.S. convoys who speed through the streets and roads. The roadside deaths are often not recorded unless the U.S. gives some compensation to the families.”

Thousands and thousands of children were killed.

Akasazh,
@Akasazh@feddit.nl avatar

This is the direct quote and a comparison to child casualties in the Ukrainian conflict:

“This is not a normal war. The war in Ukraine has killed 500 kids in two years and the war in Gaza has killed over 10,000 in less than five months. We have seen wars before but this is something that is a dark stain on our shared humanity.”

If there is a normalcy for this in war, this situation is worse than that

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Well you don’t really kill 13.000+ children by accident

Omgboom,

Israeli snipers were targeting children before the war too

SkyezOpen,

Basically every headline can be replaced with “Israel is now doing what it’s always been doing but much more frequently.”

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

I mean… Netanyahu has made it pretty clear that the goal is to kill them all.

Bipta,

And the IDF rank and file. And a whole lot of Israeli civilians.

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

Indeed. War gets people killed, indiscriminately. Only madmen too out of touch with reality refuse to consider peace.

Both sides of this conflict have some of the worst of humanity in positions where they get to decide over such things. And as a result the situation has become an absolute meat grinder of the innocent.

I don’t even pretend to know a way to sort it out. Except that not adding more blades to the grinder might be a good start.

underisk,
@underisk@lemmy.ml avatar

How many Israeli civilians are starving or dead? How is Hamas’ blockade of Israel going? How much US aid has Hamas stopped from entering Israel?

Don’t “both sides” a genocide you fucking clown.

MentalEdge, (edited )
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

Are you saying every person on the side being eradicated is a saint? Are you saying all “both sides” statements are inaccurate simply because one side has shown itself to be by far more monstrous?

Does their innocent dead now become unworthy of considering? People have died on both sides. There are innocent people on both sides. There are monstrous people on both sides.

Ignoring any of that because Gaza is being absolutely stomped by Israels more powerful position does a disservice to anyone trying figure out what is actually happening, and what a way to make it stop might look like.

Shit people in charge doesn’t excuse killing kids, but killing kids doesn’t make the shit people cease to exist, either.

The whole thing needs to stop. But let’s not kid ourselves with the idea that that ball in the long is entirely in Israel’s court. It simply isn’t that simple.

Is it step one? Yes. Does it have to be step one, because right now nothing Hamas can do or say will make it stop? Yes.

But is it the last step? Fuck no.

underisk,
@underisk@lemmy.ml avatar

The morality of one side of the other is entirely fucking irrelevant. One side is doing a genocide. Period. They should stop. Immediately. Nothing, absolutely nothing in the entire fucking world justifies starving an entire population, relentlessly bombing civilians, turning hospitals into rubble, killing aid workers, killing journalists, and leveling houses, cities, and infrastructure.

Go to hell you fucking idiot.

MentalEdge, (edited )
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

I literally agree with every word you just wrote, “you fucking idiot”.

There’s also a bunch of shit that has to happen for a lasting piece after that, and you are helping no-one by ignoring that and flying off the handle at people who otherwise already side with you.

underisk,
@underisk@lemmy.ml avatar

If you agree, then you don’t need to do this ridiculous moral equivocation bullshit. Worry about the morality of whoever remains when the people murdering civilians en masse have stopped. Going out of your way to point out how the unquestionable victims are “no angels” is what isn’t helping.

I’ll leave out the insult to your intelligence this time, since I guess I’m testing the mods patience.

MentalEdge, (edited )
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

I really don’t know where you got the idea that I think there is anything excusable about what the Israeli government is doing.

My initial comment is merely an expression that it is no longer surprising. That they are no longer in any way hiding that the goal is absolute atrocity.

My second comment concurs with the unfortunate reality that the leaderships involved have all contributed to things getting worse, and innocents ending up dead, or suffering and then dead. AT NO POINT DID I SUGGEST ANYONE IN GAZA DESERVES WHAT IS HAPPENING.

Even if all the people who wanted to do evil in Gaza, are now dead, at no point did I suggest what has transpired was a remotely acceptable way to achieve that. Or even that killing them was on the table in the first place. That interpretation is entirely yours.

Yet, the reality is that even if no-one in Hamas wanted every Israelite dead before, some of them do now. Do they have good reason for such desires? Oh yeah. And that is gonna be an obstacle along any path you might take to make this stop. It doesn’t matter which ones survive. The nature of what has been done to them means there will be someone out for blood. AND NO, THAT IS NOT A REASON TO KEEP KILLING THEM!

underisk,
@underisk@lemmy.ml avatar

And that is gonna be an obstacle along any path you might take to make this stop.

No it isn’t and I wish you would stop insisting that it is or would be. Neither the people of Gaza nor their leaders have the ability to stop this shit; what they feel about Israelis matters not at all. The motherfuckers standing by, watching, supporting this shit are the one’s whose morality you should be calling into question. They are the obstacles standing in the way of justice and peace, ignoring their moral obligation to stop a fucking genocide.

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

Neither the people of Gaza nor their leaders have the ability to stop this shit

I’m not saying they do. In fact I literally pointed that exact fact out.

The motherfuckers standing by, watching, supporting this shit are the one’s whose morality you should be calling into question. They are the obstacles standing in the way of justice and peace, ignoring their moral obligation to stop a fucking genocide.

You are absolutely, 100%, correct. Preaching to the choir. Israel needs to stop, immediately. Anyone who can force their hand should have done so, day one.

But what comes after cannot be what was done to Germany after WWI, because that shit is what led to WWII. Now before you get your panties further into a twist, no, Hama’s current position is not equivalent to that of Germany in WWI.

But ANY peace that comes after this, won’t last, if the people of Gaza have any desire for revenge left 50 years from now. The same goes for Israel, they should more likely develop the kind of national shame that Germany has for WWII, but they too will need some kind of cultural stopping element for their bloodlust.

underisk,
@underisk@lemmy.ml avatar

Whatever comes after this is one of two scenarios: the destruction of Gaza, or the dissolution of Israel. There is no outcome where things go back to how they were before Oct 7. That door is closed and the status quo of those times was no less unjust the the current situation. These two states cannot coexist, worrying about how Israel and Gaza will get along when the bombs stop dropping is pointless because things have escalated to the point where one or both cannot and will not survive this. Hemming and hawing about how much Gaza will hate Israel is pointless navel gazing.

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

Fully agree.

But the people in that land WILL have to co-exist, no matter what shape their nations take. To minimize death, that is not optional.

You can’t just defang a government and expect that to be the end of it.

underisk,
@underisk@lemmy.ml avatar

You don’t understand. There will be no government left. Either the international community steps in because it finally realizes its moral obligation to stop a genocide, in which case Israel’s government is gone; either tried in the Hague or dead, and the whole region is collapsed into newly-formed single state staffed by UN stooges. Or things continue as they are and we watch a million people get starve under the boot of fascist colonial expansionism, their leadership having fled or been killed. Then we get to watch it all over again when Israel decides it wants the West Bank, too.

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

…

How exactly does any of that semantic nitpicking change the fact that as long as the people remain, the cultural clash that led to all this, will too?

Unless you are suggesting that to stop a genocide, we need another one?

underisk,
@underisk@lemmy.ml avatar

You’ve spent this entire discussion lamenting about how depraved the leadership of these groups are, how they’re the ones driving the conflict. Now you’re going to swap to saying that it’s cultural? Make up your mind.

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

Now you’re grasping straws.

Unless you are suggesting that cultural consciousness and what kind of people get into leadership positions are entirely unrelated, which they aren’t, you’ve got nothing.

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

And seriusly. Is your problem with me actually just that I dared to think about and comment on what there is to occur past Isreal stopping their fucking genocide?

And you think my doing that makes me stupid one?

underisk,
@underisk@lemmy.ml avatar

My problem with you is this shit right here:

Are you saying every person on the side being eradicated is a saint? Are you saying all “both sides” statements are inaccurate simply because one side has shown itself to be by far more monstrous?

This is the moral equivocation that is pissing me off. Shut the fuck up about it! It doesn’t matter!

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

I literally only said that to piss you off.

It wasn’t even the focus of the comment that set you off, yet you got so hung up on it you instantly painted me the blackest black you could find, completely blinding yourself to what my take of the situation actually is.

There are people in Gaza who would do to Israel what is being done to them. And they were allowed to make all this worse.

Those types of people need to go, from all leadership positions. On both sides. No. That does not mean they need to be killed, or that any part of what is being done is deserved.

When peace is an option, you can’t have someone in charge that will say no. Not in Israel. Not in Palestine.

underisk,
@underisk@lemmy.ml avatar

Buddy you said it in so many words in the first comment of this chain:

Both sides of this conflict have some of the worst of humanity in positions where they get to decide over such things.

They could be the most wretched beings on the face of this fucking earth and I would still support them against Israel. I don’t care how they feel or what they did. If you’re mad about the moral degeneracy of the leadership in Gaza then you have Israel to thank for that. They propped up Hamas deliberately over the more secular, sympathetic resistance groups in the strip specifically so people could make this disgusting argument. You are helping them, playing right into their fucking hands.

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

They propped up Hamas deliberately over the more secular, sympathetic resistance groups in the strip

I’m so sorry I didn’t specifically mention them in my lament of this exact fact.

underisk,
@underisk@lemmy.ml avatar

If you lament this fact then stop bringing up how deplorable they are! They didn’t pick them because they’re actually morally abhorrent monsters, they picked them because they were counting on westerners racism towards islamic resistance groups. I guess they picked a winner!

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

Buddy, I’m not gonna self-censor any part of discussing this.

I’m perfectly convinced of the imperative to stop Israel even without that.

underisk,
@underisk@lemmy.ml avatar

Great. I’m glad you’re comfortable with doing the job of the people you claim to despise. This is why I insulted you. Repeatedly. Thanks for confirming it was justified.

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

And I’m sorry that you feel the need to police others on how they talk about it, for fear it not be effective enough as propaganda.

And I’m not using that word in a negative sense. The truth should already make it clear to anyone, what needs to happen.

Your need to be choosy about which parts we mention is just sad, IMO.

underisk,
@underisk@lemmy.ml avatar

ok

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

And again, you could have just added to what I said, instead berating me for bringing it up in the first place. Trying to shut someone up isn’t how you convince anyone. That specific person, or anyone else reading the discussion.

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

And might I point out that you could have been much more effective by just adding this context you felt I left out, instead of insulting my assumed ignorance and having the entirety of what you wanted said removed.

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Again, removed for civility. You make a salient point right up until you attack the other user.

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Removed, attacking the user isn’t allowed. Totally OK until the last 3 words.

melpomenesclevage,

And they all believe this. If you ever talk to one; they know its ‘wrong’ even if maybe they don’t totally understand the concept. They want to do it anyway. Its like a compulsion. A need. Ive genuinely talked to serial killers, about their killings, that seemed less pathological. Its really fucking disturbing.

The only people , human beings that were actual human beings that ive ever met with any connection to kapostan? The queer kids they threw away like garbage, who are determined to never go back, and fucking ashamed of being from fucking mordor.

MonsterMonster,

The whole event of 7th Oct, as horrendous as it was, is now completely and utterly overshadowed by these evil events in Gaza. The whole thing is deplorable on both sides. This is pure evil.

hydroptic,

At this point I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it turned out Bibi staged the October attack as a false flag so he could justify genocide.

ThePowerOfGeek,
@ThePowerOfGeek@lemmy.world avatar

I highly doubt he staged it. But it has crossed my mind that he might have got wind of a Hamas planning something and just turned a blind eye so it could be used to fuel an invasion of the Gaza Strip.

hydroptic,

Oh yeah it’s not like I think it’s likely, just that at it wouldn’t really surprise me

Mobilityfuture,

It’s publicly stated by Israeli military staff there were warnings of preparations for an attack that were not believed by top brass and the administration despite clear evidence.

There is a bunch of reporting on this in mainstream news sources if you look.

It is positioned that they never believed Hamas would have the capabilities to carry out what they were clearly planning

scarabic,

It’s almost as if Hamas planned it that way.

x4740N,
@x4740N@lemmy.world avatar

Honestly I just don’t know what to think anymore when I see news headlines like this this, I just feel a whole range of emotions

How could you do that to another human, especially a kid

Edit: just to add, no war is normal

hydroptic,

How could you do that to another human, especially a kid

Easy peasy, just take a page from the conservative playbook and don’t think of your “enemies” as human

MonsterMonster,

Mmmm… that reminds of this story.

JustZ, (edited )

It’s unbelievable. In fact I don’t believe it. Standard fare for the Guardian. Reporting “reports” as facts…

Aceticon,

They’re not kids in the eyes of the extremist racists of Israel, they’re “human animals”.

Zionism is clearly a variant of Nazism as can be seen by how so many elements are similar, from the style of propaganda, the relentless use of the myth of being both strong and a victim and how they talk about themselves (“chosen people”) and those they target (“human animals”), to the extreme dehumanization of the etnicity they’re targetting in words and actions and the extreme violence of their actions towards any of them whilst even feeling pride about it (to the point of it being normal for IDF soldiers to post videos of them murdering Palestinian civilians).

Now consider that many who are in the IDF now grew up in a country ruled entirelly by Zionism and have know nothing else their whole lives but Zionist Propaganda about how they’re all victims and Palestinians are all “human animals” and it’s pretty understandable how many of them will gladly commit against palestinians - men, women or children, they don’t care - the kind of acts that those not indoctrinated since childhood in that violent form of Fascism see as barbarous violence.

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