“Systemd is the future”

Initially the bug report was shot down by systemd developer Luca Boccassi of Microsoft with:

So an option that is literally documented as saying “all files and directories created by a tmpfiles.d/ entry will be deleted”, that you knew nothing about, sounded like a “good idea”? Did you even go and look what tmpfiles.d entries you had beforehand?

Maybe don’t just run random commands that you know nothing about, while ignoring what the documentation tells you? Just a thought eh"

Good devs, good product, I’m really excited about our shitty, shitty future.

MonkderDritte,

Yeah, “Systemd won”, “it’s decided”, stuff like this on discourse. Sorry, but that’s not how Open Source works.

kenkenken,
@kenkenken@sh.itjust.works avatar

systemd now is focused around image-based systems. There is a huge gap between this design and traditional distros. I hate how the linux community has nothing in between of these two polar opposite approaches.

mlg,
@mlg@lemmy.world avatar

Microsoft

Ah so that’s where they pulled the run0 idea out of their asses from.

brb gonna go tell RedHat to make a fork lol.

fireshell,
@fireshell@lemmy.ml avatar

“If you can’t win, lead.” Systemd development is in the hands of Microsoft employees. systemd has taken over almost all of Linux. Experts answer - in whose hands is Linux now? :)

0x0,

Most subtle instance of Microsoft’s Embrace-Extend-Extinguish to date.

png,

Except MS needs Linux for Azure and Systemd alternatives do exist

Zucca,

Initially the bug report was shot down by systemd developer Luca Boccassi of Microsoft with:

Emphasis mine.

While MS at least tries to be good guy nowdays, I just can’t trust their code too much.

0x0,

They never stopped being bad, they’ve just refined their tactics.

efstajas, (edited )

Oof, that quote is the exact brand of nerd bullshit that makes my blood boil. “Sure, it may be horribly designed, complicated, hard to understand, unnecessarily dangerous and / or extremely misleading, but you have nOT rEAd ThE dOCUmeNtATiON, therefore it’s your fault and I’m immune to your criticism”. Except this instance is even worse than that, because the documentation for that command sounds just as innocent as the command itself. But I guess obviously something called “tmpfiles” is responsible for your home folder, how couldn’t you know that?

Nibodhika,

For anyone defending the dev ensure you have the version before this patch and run systemd-tmpfiles --purge just a heads up, it will delete your home because /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/home.conf exists and lists your home as a temporary file. This is a HUGE issue, tmpfiles.d default behavior is to list /home as a temporary dir, that should NOT be the case. Their fix is also sort of bullshit, instead of removing home as a tmpdir they made it so that you need to specify which files to purge.

geneva_convenience,

Deleting your home directory on Linux is inevitable. A temporary classification is correct.

llii,

Huh, that was my first thougth. Why is /home/ configured in systemd-tmpfiles? Seems strange for me.

Laser,

E.g. for quick provisioning of containers or virtual machines, this is also to make sure the required directories always exist. In a normal distribution, /home already exists, so systemd-tmpfiles does nothing, but there are cases where you want to setup a standard directory structure and this is a declarative alternative to scripts with a lot of mkdir, chmod and chown.

The name systemd-tmpfiles is kind of historic at this point, but wasn’t changed due to backwards compatibility and all.

Nibodhika,

Then those containers or virtual machines should add this or create the home as needed. Having/home listed as a tmp file on regular systems is problematic by the nature of what tmpfiles claims it does.

Laser,

Then those containers or virtual machines should add this or create the home as needed.

systemd has its own containers, so this is the implementation of that requirement; “virtual machines” might use this exact binary to create home, among other directories like srv and what not. Someone at one point probably said “we always need to create these when spinning up systems, maybe systems can provide a mechanism to do that for us?” and then it was implemented.

Having/home listed as a tmp file on regular systems is problematic by the nature of what tmpfiles claims it does.

systemd-tmpfiles claims the following:

systemd-tmpfiles creates, deletes, and cleans up files and directories, using the configuration file format and location specified in tmpfiles.d(5). Historically, it was designed to manage volatile and temporary files, as the name suggests, but it provides generic file management functionality and can be used to manage any kind of files.

I rather think having a purge command was the issue here, at the very least it should print a big fat warning at what it does, better even list all affected files and directories. There’s no reason a normal user needs this and with the name of the binary, it’s totally misleading, which is an issue in these situations.

exu,

Is that a standard systemd configuration or something enabled by a distro?

Nibodhika,

I assume systemd standard since the two different distros I have (Ubuntu and Arch) have it there.

Templa,

Imagine having the guts of using a command with “–purge” without reading documentation and blaming others because you’re just lazy.

Maybe just install a distro that don’t let you do that, OP. Have you considered getting a Mac?

velox_vulnus, (edited )

Just pick a non-systemd distro instead of reinforcing this fear-mongering nonsense editorializing. I can’t tolerate corporate stooges putting their dick in our space, so I’ve switched to Guix. You have a choice, you can switch if you want to - nobody is stopping you. This way, you are also helping the maintainers and the contributors by giving them feedback.

0x0,

Slackware, Devuan… or Gentoo, which took the sanest approach and actually lets you choose init system, are all good alternatives too.

velox_vulnus,

And that’s not even the complete list (link may be a little dated, I think).

danielfgom,
@danielfgom@lemmy.world avatar

So are we all ok with Microsoft now being in charge of systemd? The same company made famous by Blue Screens of Death?

When I consider this, it makes me think Linux has lost. Do you think Microsoft would let the Linux community be on charge of The Registry? Or any other part of the OS?

Mac may be the only decent option left…?

NekkoDroid,
@NekkoDroid@programming.dev avatar

The BSOD really isn’t something to be mad at, it actually in theory is good but there is only so much you can do when a kernel panics. What you should be mad at is shitty drivers causing BSODs

chemicalwonka,
@chemicalwonka@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Runit is simpler and more aligned with Unix and Kiss philosophy but unfortunately the major distros didn’t adopt it

lemmyvore,

bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1149530#p1149…

dukatos,

Or use Artix…

Scio,

The ‘d’ stands for drama.

And also dick.

Singular.

possiblylinux127,

This thread is just a excuse for old time systemd haters to start complain about how it Linux isn’t the same as it was 20 years ago.

This honestly has nothing to do with systemd and it could of been any software that did this. It is an issue of bad communication and people pulling from the very recent stuff. Also it is also a reminder to have proper backups especially when using upstream software.

abadbronc,

Luca Boccassi sounds like he got pantsed a few too many times in high school.

phoenixz,

Though I hate systemd with a passion, this does seem to be a “doh” situation…

Systemd changes my entire system to the point that 5 minute tasks now take me an hour, I hate it with a passion…

But this ain’t it

Max_P,
@Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me avatar

The fuck are you doing that it takes an hour to do with systemd? My experience has been the total opposite: drop a file or two somewhere, probably a symlink and done. Even encrypted ZFS root in initramfs was surprisingly easy to set up.

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