Trying to ditch windows

I really want to switch to Linux, up to this point there were two things keeping me on Windows, gaming and work.

Gaming nowadays is a lot easier than a couple of years ago thanks to Valve and Proton, so that’s not a problem anymore; with the other one I don’t know if I can make something work enough and that’s why I’m asking here.

I work as a fullstack software developer with windows products I don’t fear for the frontend part because typescript, angular, react, … those I know I can run on linux with no problem on VS Code; for backend thought: dot.net, visual studio, sql server, … I think there is no Visual Studio for Linux and I don’t know if I can run & debug .net 8 applications on a linux machine? I can use docker for things like databases. Does anybody else has a similar scenario and things that had to overcame? Tips, problems that I may not see now before making the switch, and solutions to my current problems are welcome

cetvrti_magi,
@cetvrti_magi@lemmy.world avatar

You can do .net on Linux but Windows is much better for that. I recommend using Windows for work and Linux for everything else.

possiblylinux127,

Or just run Windows VMs

ms264556,

I don’t play games, but I do plenty of dev work including a lot in Visual Studio & SSMS. I always have a few Linux boxes running & try every few months to live on Linux rather than Windows.

Visual Studio can be swapped out for Rider. Rider is quite different feeling than VS, but I guess a lot of devs use another Jetbrains IDE of some kind, in which case it’s a fairly easy switch.

SQL Server runs happily on Linux. But SSMS is harder for me to do without. I have Aqua Data Studio & Jetbrains DataGrip, but they don’t feel as seamless as SSMS.

In the end though, it’s hard to beat Windows + WSL2 now that Windows VSCode & Jetbrains IDEs seamlessly connect to Linux projects. And if you enable nested virtualization and MAC address spoofing then Hyper-V can run anything WSL can’t.

Usually I end up moving back to Windows because of font rendering. I far prefer Windows cleartype font rendering on 2160p desktop screens. One day Linux fractional scaling will be perfected or 200+dpi desktop screens will become affordable. Then I might stay on Linux.

dan,
@dan@upvote.au avatar

Usually I end up moving back to Windows because of font rendering. I far prefer Windows cleartype font rendering on 2160p desktop screens

I’m surprised this is still an issue. I remember it being an issue when I used desktop Linux 15 years ago. At the time, Linux devs didn’t want to risk accidently infringing on Microsoft’s ClearType patents, so the text smoothing techniques had to be completely different.

Those patents all expired in 2018.

ms264556,

Linux font rendering is generally very good now, so I think they’ve gotten past that. Apart from a System76 desktop, which was terrible, I haven’t hated the rendering for many years. It’s just that Microsoft’s font rendering (maximizing clarity at the expense of destroying the font metrics) is exactly what I want to look at all day if I’m staring at code. When I look at screenshots of vscode on Linux and Mac the code looks beautiful, because the font renderer hasn’t beaten the characters with a big stick to make them fit the pixel grid, but when I switch back to windows after using Linux/Mac then it feels like someone fixed the focus and de-blurred everything.

And now that I can have as many Linux installs as I like running concurrently via WSL2, I get to use Linux all day without losing the stuff I like about Windows.

dan,
@dan@upvote.au avatar

when I switch back to windows after using Linux/Mac then it feels like someone fixed the focus and de-blurred everything.

I haven’t used desktop Linux in a while, but I feel the same about MacOS font smoothing. It’s way too blurry. I’m not sure why people like it.

Procapra,
@Procapra@hexbear.net avatar

Tips for switching to linux:

  1. Determine if your hardware will play nice with linux. If you have Broadcom or Realtek wifi/bluetooth be aware that linux doesn’t always have great drivers for those. Nvidia gpus don’t always play nice with wayland.
  2. Certain anti-cheats for games just don’t work on linux.
  3. (might not apply to you since you’re in IT) Try to avoid using obscure linux distros or bleeding edge distros like Arch. You’ll run into issues and not many people will be able to help. Debian, Fedora, and Ubuntu seem to be the popular distros rn for most people.
1boiledpotato,

I don’t agree with the 3rd take. I used both Debian and Arch based systems. Both break equally often (quite rarely), but when smth breaks in a Debian based system there’s little support or help, while on Arch everyone is willing to help you and you have Arch wiki, which is in a league of its own. Also thanks to AUR, there so much more software available out of the box on Arch

swab148,
@swab148@lemm.ee avatar

I’m actually switching my mom over to Manjaro today specifically because of the AUR. The reason she hadn’t switched before was a very niche embroidery program that we were both convinced would be a Windows exclusive, then two days ago I found out that someone had packaged it earlier this year!

bleepbloopbop, (edited )

You’ll run into issues and not many people will be able to help. Debian, Fedora, and Ubuntu seem to be the popular distros rn for most people.

Agree with the broader conclusion that a first time linux user should probably avoid gentoo, arch, whatever, but its not because nobody will be able to help you, more just that the expected level of polish is a bit less.

It isn’t considered a huge inconvenience to have to use the CLI or edit a config file by arch users, but for ubuntu especially they are more bent on building something that “just works” for most people (with the tradeoff being it’s a commercially exploited product, and the innards of GNOME and the like tend to be more of a black box and less tweakable than say, a tiling WM)

But if you do want to dive in and learn how more of the internals work and how to configure things at a lower level, you will find a lot of help with issues, and very detailed documentation for a lot more things in Arch, vs Ubuntu. I find the ubuntu community online to be sort of a middle ground between the detailed technical help I’ve gotten from Arch communities, and the “here’s some magic steps that worked for me, no idea why” type of thing that is prevalent on windows support communities.

Which isn’t to say ubuntu people aren’t helpful, but the critical mass of users isn’t the only thing that matters, it also helps if the users are knowledgeable, and friendly (some arch people fail at this, though I’ve lucked out and really not had any bad experiences)

Procapra,
@Procapra@hexbear.net avatar

I meant more that, when it comes to newer bleeding edge software, some of the bugs introduced won’t be as well recorded and people won’t know exactly how to remedy your specific problem. Whereas with debian/ubuntu or fedora, often its as simple as typing whatever problem you’re having into a search engine, plugging some junk into the terminal, and it fixing the problem 90% of the time.

But I agree with your comment overall so have my upvote! :)

eugenia,
@eugenia@lemmy.ml avatar

Instead of trying to run heavy and complex apps on an OS that were never designed for, use Windows for work, and then use gaming and your personal life on Linux. Another thing you can do is switch the kind of programming you do, so it’s more linux-related, so overtime, you can only have Linux machines. But for the time being, if you’re doing windows programming, use a windows machine for work.

Guenther_Amanita,

This sounds like the most reasonable answer here in this thread. I couldn’t have said it better.

Preferences don’t matter if you get paid for it. If your job demands working with software designed for Windows, then use Windows. If you don’t do that, you have to find workarounds that cost time and therefore money, both if you are self employed or have to work for a company.
Either you, or your boss, won’t be happy long term.

If you like Linux more, then use it in your free time, or maybe consider switching your orientation for development to that platform.

Same for development for Apple stuff (e.g. iPhone apps). Then you’re stuck with MacOS too. Or if you have to use certain CAD or Adobe software, then you’re stuck on Windows/ Mac too.

Software availability is great on Linux, and today, you can get most of the stuff working on it, even if it isn’t designed for that. But is it worth it that time and effort? For me, it wouldn’t.

ricdeh,
@ricdeh@lemmy.world avatar

That’s because you do not understand the philosophy. We are not using GNU/Linux because it is easier, we’re using them out of idealism. In my opinion, it is worth sacrificing some comfort for the thing you believe in. And ultimately, every GNU/Linux user also leads to an increase in freedom for all the others, even the Windows or OS X evangelists profit from the hard work and lobbyism of the Linux community and the Free Software Foundation.

TimeSquirrel,

I'm actually using it because it's easier. I do hobby programming, and I like having every utility I would ever need related to that just one command away. Need a hex editor? It's in the repository. Need a calculator that can convert binary to decimal? Also in the repository. IDEs/plugins/compilers? Repository.

eruchitanda,
@eruchitanda@lemmy.world avatar

Honesty? Nowadays Linux is just easier for me.

Sometimes you forget that a lot of tools you are use to have in Linux don’t even exist on Windows (like watch and cut). On Windows there are some problems you don’t even have to deal with on Unix-like systems.

bruce965,
@bruce965@lemmy.ml avatar

Yes, you can develop in .NET on VSCode and the debugger works on Linux too.

There is a Docker version of SQL Server which funnily enough is equivalent to the enterprise version (rather than limited like SQL Express). You can use it for free as long as it’s for development purposes only.

There is no SQL Management Studio though.

One option would be to use PostgreSQL instead. Entity Framework makes it almost free to replace the database anyways (unless you are doing some db-specific things).

There are some other minor annoyances or missing features, it might bother you; but depending on how you are used to work, you might not even notice. But, hey! you are on Linux now, you get all the benefits of a UNIX operating system, it will be worth it for sure, right? (Yes, imho)

As for gaming, I only do light gaming so I probably don’t count. I use Heroic Launcher and it works wonderfully out of the box 50% of the time, the remaining 50% you can probably make it work as good as on Windows if you are persistent enough.

Oh, and sometimes some games run better on Linux than on Windows, but I would say most of the time they run a bit worse.

x1gma,

If you use a dockerized environment, that will only work better on Linux. .NET8 is AFAIK natively supported on Linux, so there shouldn’t be too much of an issue apart from the usual clunkyness. Visual Studio will probably be more of a problem. The “easiest” way would probably be to switch to jet brains or vscode. If you are hardstuck on VS for whatever reasons, you probably should be able to do some voodoo with running it in docker and using the container as a remote desktop, but this will be PITA to setup and maintain.

rtxn,

deleted_by_author

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    breadsmasher,
    @breadsmasher@lemmy.world avatar

    I have never manually written a csproj file

    You can use www.jetbrains.com/rider/

    Or vscode with learn.microsoft.com/en-us/…/vs-c-sharp-dev-kit

    astrsk,
    @astrsk@kbin.social avatar

    Jetbrains Rider is the answer to dotnet on Linux. The only thing it is bad at is WPF. Otherwise go ham.

    ososalsosal,
    @ososalsosal@aussie.zone avatar

    If you can shell out for it, get jetbrains rider. It’s just as good (better?) as visual studio for dotnet including the more obscure bits like xamarin etc

    poinck,

    If you don’t play the latest game titles with DRM you should be good to go on Linux: Steam runs great in a flatpak sandbox.

    I don’t know how compatible mono is with dotnet. Interestingly, some game launchers need it and protontricks can handle many issues. Have look at protondb. Back to work: Someone needs to confirm whether MSSQL server can be run on Linux, but I am almost sure that you won’t be able to run the gui of it. But you can connect to it using DBeaver (Java-based) or a VSCode plugin. As for C# development on Linux, I don’t know.

    I wish I could switch to Linux at work, too, but standardization of work environments seems to be the problem. I would even consider Ubuntu 22.04 LTS if my employer woul allow it. Last time I asked, time was the real reason. Time savings in the long run, currently don’t matter. I will ask later and if they still tell me, it’s too risky, I will look elsewhere.

    Our dev setup doesn’t even have the constraints you have for your work. It is all docker-based with Ubuntu Linux containers. It would run faster on Linux even if we could switch to WSL2. And I would argue, that Linux is more standardized than Windows.

    I hope you get your stuff running on Linux; market share needs to go up so that all the managers don’t fear it. (:

    cmnybo,

    A lot of times the DRM issues can be fixed by using a cracked version. The real problem is the games that force the rootkit based anti cheats that really just make the cheaters switch to hardware based cheats instead of stopping them.

    bjoern_tantau,
    @bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de avatar

    With the games, make sure that you don’t want to play multiplayer games with unsupported anti cheat. They will probably never work on Linux without support from the game developers. See areweanticheatyet.com.

    bizdelnick,

    learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/…/linux

    breadsmasher,
    @breadsmasher@lemmy.world avatar

    .NET is now fully cross platform. you can absolutely run and debug applications on linux as you would in windows.

    However Visual Studio IDE is windows only (theres a mac version but isn’t the same).

    You can use vscode + .net development pack.

    Personally I use Jetbrains rider (for home and work)

    SQL Server has a linux version I believe, but its been years since Ive done an install (for development I run sql server in a container)

    d3Xt3r, (edited )

    .NET is now fully cross platform. you can absolutely run and debug applications on linux as you would in windows.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t this limited to just console apps - as in you can’t yet run GUI apps, unless you’re using a cross-platform toolkit like Avalonia, or it’s a WinForms app running under Mono?

    breadsmasher, (edited )
    @breadsmasher@lemmy.world avatar

    To be more specific, yeah I think you are correct. The core of .net (hence the old name net core) is cross platform. Theres a lot of other stuff that isn’t (ie WPF won’t work on linux)

    There are alternatives, such as MAUI

    dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/apps/maui

    sylveon,

    Note that MAUI doesn’t officially support Linux.

    But there are third party alternatives like Uno Platform or Avalonia UI that do.

    breadsmasher,
    @breadsmasher@lemmy.world avatar

    woops! good point thanks!

    mrbn,
    @mrbn@lemmy.ca avatar

    (theres a mac version but isn’t the same)

    There was a mac version. But it is hitting EOL in August

    DmMacniel,

    Afaik the only solution to your .net needs would be mono

    theroff, (edited )

    There’s also dotnet (.NET Core) available on most distros which is an open source subset of .NET by Microsoft

    See …substack.com/…/differences-between-mono-and-net-…

    DmMacniel,

    Neat! Thanks for the link and info.

    luthis,

    Lutris can be pretty handy for many things…

    I don’t have too much exp with these things, but I would suggest (as an IT support person) narrowing down and isolating problems into specifics, like:

    • I need dot.net for x thing and I tried y thing and it didn’t work.

    You’ll be able to get better answers. I’m pretty interested in the suggestions, my usual solution is ‘find something open source that is not as good but works.’

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