Rapidcreek,

Good assessment. Note…

Both al-Qa‘ida and ISIS, inspired by the HAMAS attack against Israel, have directed their supporters to conduct attacks against Israeli and U.S. interests. The HAMAS attack is encouraging individuals to conduct acts of antisemitic and Islamophobic terror worldwide and is galvanizing individuals to leverage the Palestinian plight for recruitment and inspiration to conduct attacks. The Nordic Resistance Movement—a transnational neo-Nazi organization—publicly praised the attack, illustrating the conflict’s appeal to a range of threat actors

fukhueson,

Sounds familiar…

www.adl.org/…/nordic-resistance-movement

Around Passover in March 2021, the synagogue in Norrköping was once again targeted by NRM, this time with signs and dolls symbolizing dead children. The signs read: “Today marks the beginning of the Jewish passover, celebrated every year in memory of the israelites’ murder of tens of thousands of newborn babies in Egypt” and “Tens of thousands of babies have in our time been murdered under the Jews’ occupation of Palestine. Organize in the struggle against zionism!”

Squizzy,

Hate to argree with nazis but Israel have killed thousands of children in the last 6 months alone.

Israel handing horrible organisations legitimate grievances.

ViXY_DBC,

It’s as if a sovereign Palestine state with equal right will dis-incentivize violence. Who would thought?

Rapidcreek,

Assessments don’t rely on political vagaries, just group dynamics. October 7th litup the terrorist communities according to this and I have no doubt that’s true. It may have even emboldened what we saw in Haiti.

TheFonz,

Too bad Palestinians turned down multiple times a two state solution.

Keeponstalin, (edited )

Partition and later the Two-State Solution have been wielded by Israel to covet and annex as much Palestinian land as possible with the least amount of Palestinians.

Before 1948, Palestinian Leadership repeatedly advocated for a Unitary Binational State for decades.

The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948

Palestinian Arab Congress advocating for Unified State 1928

Arab Higher Committee advocating for Unified State 1937

Arab League advocating for Unified Binational State 1948

After the founding of Israel, the Two-State Solutions were utilized to further annex the Palestinian Occupied Territories and enact military control over Palestinians while denying them human and civil rights. Despite this, both Fatah and later Hamas have accepted a Two-State Solution on the 1967 borders, with the two most important factors being the Right of Return of Palestinian refugees and an end to the permanent occupation.

Oslo Accords MEE, NYT, Haaretz, AJ

History of peace process

TheFonz,

I’m familiar with the concept of transfer (and the Nur paper is indeed very interesting). However, we can’t turn back the clock. It happened a hundred years ago and it sucks. It was awful. That being said, Israel is not going anywhere and the Jews are never going to change gears --esp after Oct 7. Despite their grievances, the Palestinians walked away from several proposals for two state solutions. The return to the 67 borders was only palatable after the Palestinians walked away and it backfired. The fact remains: Israel did cede copious amounts of land back to the Palestinians (after first intifada) and Israel also demolished many settlements. It takes two to tango and negotiations with Palestinian leadership never seems to work out. It’s unfortunate that Gaza is turning into an apartheid condition and I don’t condone the way the IDF is handling the situation at all.

Edit: by the way, I’m appreciating the links to articles and sources you provide.

Keeponstalin,

First of all, I’m talking about Israel, not all Jewish people. Israel has never and will never represent all Jewish people, regardless of how much they try to claim they do.

Now, the expulsions from the 1948 ethnic cleansing campaign Plan Dalet are directly responsible for concentrating the Palestinian populations into Gaza and the West Bank as well as the largest unresolved refugee crisis through denial of Right of Return. In 1967 Israel deliberately decided to occupy the West Bank and Gaza in order to begin settlements to de facto annex more palestinian population while denying Palestinians any human and civil rights. This occupation has only grown and has continued for decades to the present day.

You’re mistaken about the ‘peace talks’ post occupation. Israel has never had intentions for Palestinians to have an independent state. Additionally, they’ve never even let Palestinian leadership take part in the negotiations in any meaningful way. They’ve also continually rejected one of the most fundamental goals that all Palestinian leaders have advocated for, the Right of Return for the Palestinian refugees of 1948. Instead, Israel used these talks to create a De Juro justification for their annexation of the West Bank via settlements that began the moment they controlled the Occupued Palestinian Territories.

“We do not accept the Palestinian goal of an independent Palestinian state between Israel and Jordan. We believe there is a separate Palestinian entity short of a state.”

  • Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, 1993

The last link and the sources about the Oslo Accords go over this well. Israel has been the one to prevent any real Two-State Solution, so extensively that many prominent New Historians have said and discussed such in their works. It’s been a One-state reality for decades, which is why I advocate for a Binational One-state solution. Here is a bunch of articles about what a Two-State or a One-State solution would look like, plus some articles about what New Historians say on the subject.

I also want to say, I appreciate you being civil and taking a look into the sources I provided.

TheFonz,

Thanks. I want to learn more, so I’ll be reading through all your links. Some of it is familiar information, but I’m always finding new stuff. I’ll come back after I’ve deepened some more. I find the binational one-state solution interesting and desirable but not realistic (I’m cynical person to an extent). I’ve lived in Israel, and given the prevailing temperature amongst the Israeli people post Oct 7 it would be hard to imagine such a topic even surfacing. Thanks again!

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