Both are to blame as neither Hamas nor Israel benefits from peace. Before you start shouting “bothsidesing!!!” understand that I am not endorsing Israel. And don’t say “Hamas had no choice! They are oppressed and have to fight back”. That argument doesn’t hold water either as Hamas’s express objective is the elimination of the state of Israel. And before you say “Where does it say that???” I’ll ask that you familiarize yourself with the charter. And before you say “Well they don’t mean elimination of all Jews, just the state” I’ll point you to any Arab nation where Jews live freely and comfortably. And on and on we go.
Another thing to note is the volume with which Linkerbaan comments/posts is INSANE. It is for 6-7 hours/day every 15 minutes. It’s wild! There is a weird vibe to their comments too. It’s never specific enough to respond to pointed topics/arguments and just broad enough to stake out a position.
So, just to circle back to og question: Palestine (or what’s left of it) is on track to no longer be a concentration camp and hostages are being released? The conditions for palestinians have improved since Oct 7?
What is a reasonable length of time the Palestinians should endure this strategy? Fighting Nazis during WW2 lasted 6 years. The Palestinian-Israeli conflict has been going on for almost 100 years.
Has Hamas been able to improve anything using this strategy or has Israel gained an advantage over each intifada / attack in the course of the last 100 years? Who has benefited the most from the current Hamas strategy?
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with defending Palestinians. Based on my interaction with them, Palestinians are the last people Linkerbaan cares about. This is cosplaying online for clout. They are confusing the map with the territory where the aesthetic of signaling support for Palestinians has long ago superseded fostering actual solutions that will improve the lives of Palestinians.
Check out their post history and decide for yourself.
Because they are extremely selective of the articles they post and highly reactionary / vitriolic when anyone pushes back or challenges their arguments. They also offer zero charitability to any of their interlocutors. They are also ready to label anyone as a) defending genocide b) Zionist c) [insert derogatory label here] faster than you can say ‘Hamas’.
They are uneven in their media literacy discernment and extremely selective in what they post/how they present. An opinion blog post that favors Hamas is ok but a UN report that counters a claim by Hamas is placed under the most intense forensic analysis.
Each time Hamas attacks, Israel retaliates with extreme disproportionate violence and manages to expand settlements aggressively. So far, how would you say Hamas has improved the lives of Palestinians by instigating violence:
[ _ ] Significantly better
[ _ ] About the same
[ _ ] Significantly worse
As a follow up, what is a reasonable period Palestinians should endure Hamas tactics:
[ _ ] One year
[ _ ] Ten years
[ _ ] Another hundred years
Israel is going to keep doing the same shitty aggressive behavior and exploit every attack and thousands of Palestinians die. It’s almost like peace is not their primary objective (for either side). Should we keep encouraging Hamas do the same strategy of the past 100 years or should we try something different? What’re your thoughts, Link?
I didn’t ask about this particular ceasefire for this particular conflict which started Oct 7.
I didn’t ask about Israel gaining or losing international support.
I didn’t ask about the “illusion of civilized society” breaking
Original question, since we’re dodging as per usual: Is the tactic by instigating attacks leading to better outcomes overall for Palestinian people?
It’s been 100 years of Hamas (and other factions) instigating attacks and each time Israel retaliates with disproportionate violence. 30,000+ Palestinians are dead now. Is the condition in Gaza now:
The Israeli government insists that Hamas formally sanctioned sexual assault on October 7, 2023. But investigators say the evidence does not stand up to scrutiny. Catherine Philp and Gabrielle Weiniger report on eight months of claim and counter-claim...
Dude, when an article or comment disagrees with @Linkerbaan they are suddenly Nancy Drew tearing apart every word in the most detailed class in forensic analysis; however, if something agrees with their narrative opinion blog posts are just fine.
I’ve stopped engaging with their arguments because it’s clear this is only a team sports type of online game. The truth is not particularly relevant to this person.
I had this moment of realization when they came out the gate and accused me of Zionism or defending Israel-none of which I care for. In fact I find the actions of Israel despicable in this conflict. It was then that it became clear @Linkerbaan is more here for the team sports aspect of it rather than having a factual discussion to determine the truth of the matter. Right now the conversation is so diluted not much on the conflict can be discussed here because the team sports value has taken precedence over anything else, and personally I’m tired of playing team sports.
Yeah that’s a good assessment. It’s the aggressive and highly energetic and/or frenetic level to it that is particularly odd.
I’ve had lots of discussions or disagreements on this platform with various people, but the vitriolic nature of their comments indicates either a) very young person b) aesthetic / team sports argumentation for the sake of argumentation. Like arguing for the sake of arguing. Can be fun for some people I guess.
Well, when I say team sports I mean it as an aesthetic. There are plenty of noble and lofty revolutionary causes to attach onto these days and honestly it’s really laudable that young people are becoming more invested politically.
But there is a contingent that in my opinion is only tagging along the ride for the perceived social capital that is gained by joining a team. Right now, Palestinians are victims and targets of atrocities being perpetuated by the IDF. Right now the in-group is committing a sort of map and territory switch where the aesthetic of the cause supersedes the goals it is trying to achieve.
A good example to ground this is political streamer Hassan Piker: He lives in a multimillion dollar mansion, drives a Porsche, and touts himself as a socialist/communist. He has a sickle and hammer backdrop in a lot of his merchandise but he wouldn’t be the product of what he is without milking capitalism to its full extent.
That’s why when I call out Linkerbaan for larping, I mean it’s just an aesthetic or as a performative production. The map has become the territory.
Israel’s leadership is pushing the allegations that Hamas fighters raped Israeli women during the October 7 attacks for its own political objectives while the government’s ongoing refusal to allow the United Nations to conduct a full investigation into the matter threatens to hinder any evidence, advocates have warned.
Hey, @Linkerbaan do you provide this much scrutiny when you post articles from your blog websites? Or do you reserve that charitability only for one side?
I understand the challenges with the NYT expose about the sexual violence that might or might not have happened on 10/7, but why are we posting opinion pieces to world news? This is a blog post with no sources. Shouldn’t we do better?
Sure sure. But my question was-just in case you missed it: do you submit the blog posts you spam here to the same level of scrutiny or is your charitability only extended to only one side? That’s all we need to see that this is all a big larp for you
Sure, Israel/Palestine could be classified as an apartheid state. There you go. Back to the original question (3rd time): Will you extend the same charitability to articles critical of Hamas? Or does the larp not work that way? Was just curious
What people like @Linkerbaan (and most of these Lemmy LARPers) don’t understand is that I am the most on the side of Palestinians. However, I’m a solutions oriented person. I want the suffering of Palestinians to stop. Now. I don’t care to larp on social media for Karma points so I don’t spam news threads non-stop with junk blog opinion pieces. Their only goal is to dilute the conversation.
We all are aware the genocide is happening.
I want a ceasefire and I want to bring both sides to the table to negotiations because the Palestinian people are the ones caught in this awful situation between a proxy war for Iran and the zealotry of right wing Israeli politicians.
What a weird hill to die on…you don’t have to defend Hamas in order to be critical of Israel. It’s not one or the other Linkerbaan. Or does that break the Larp. I can’t understand people like you.
Buddy, I just conceded it’s an apartheid state two comments away in the same thread. Now what will you say about me in order to obfuscate and muddy the conversation?
No pal, I was very precise in my language: I said within Israel there are millions of Muslims that coexist with Jews. That was in direct response to the garbage you were posting in that specific thread because you are unable to engage with more than one topic at a time --perhaps it’s too difficult for you. I understand. All this larping on social media can be tiring after a while.
Because you constantly post opinion blog pieces on every community and they seem to not hold a candle to the slightest scrutiny, but when someone brings receipts (like UN reports) suddenly you are Nancy Drew. It’s pretty obvious that you have double standards when it comes to media literacy, no?
Because people like @Linkerbaan don’t really care about any of this. It’s all a larp.
I see it as the same effect as Kony 2012 was when everyone was updating their FB profile (or like when people put the rainbow flag during pride month). It’s an aesthetic, nothing more. If they really cared about resolutions they would be promoting anything towards that, not constant opinion blog posts. Not constant bickering. Not this vitriolic reactionary stuff every time someone pushes back or asks questions.
The Israeli military had US support in rescuing four captives from Gaza in a “complex daytime operation” in Nuseirat that killed over 200 Palestinians....
You have no idea what you’re talking about. There are millions of Muslim people living fine within Israel. They are not driving on separate roads or anything like that. Why do you lie so much?
You may have noticed a distinct lack of return2ozma. This is due to their admitting, in a public comment, that their engagement here is in bad faith:...
Oh Linkerbaan, are you really calling out people for not responding to your argument? You, of all people?
Your primary mo is to go in every thread and screech “Zionist” before anyone dares question your posts or comments and you want to talk about ad hominem? Cute.
“Notably, Chang’s report claims that biological females develop earlier than males do, so requiring girls to enter school at younger ages will create classes in which the two sexes are of more equal maturity as they age. This, the author posits, makes it more likely that those classmates will be attracted to each other, and...
I disagree. I think more people actually do want to have families but the systems in place just aren’t set up to enable that. This is anecdotal, of course.
This is true. Israel benefits immensely each time there is a conflict -whether it’s settlements or the upper hand in negotiations. The Palestinians are hurt the most and in a tough spot between Hamas and Israel. I’m not sure that either side will offer any concessions after Oct 7 but it would be in everyone’s interest if Israel did offer concessions at this point because the cost of waging war indefinitely I don’t think bodes well for them.
@Flying: Something is getting lost in the sauce. This guy is in agreement with you. They’re simply pointing out how the executive branch executes their decisions and who they are beholden to. The US president can read UN reports, but ultimately they are beholden to the state department and the intelligence reports they get which clearly should be reevaluated. That’s it.
They are not saying there isn’t validity in news articles or UN reports. Is that making sense?
The Iraq war case is an example of the executive branch going against intelligence reports and stretching the truth extensively to make the case for war.
The evidence linking Iraq to Al-Qaeda or any production of WMD was very flimsy at the time and there was no strong consensus among state agencies. This was a failure of the executive branch to make a correct assessment based on the reports it received. In fact, there were multiple agencies that came out against some of the statements by Bush and Cheney. The 170 page Senate Intelligence Committee report details all this and includes how CIA and FBI reports dismissed the claims of the president. In fact, multiple articles of impeachment were brought forward during Bush’s presidency because of this gross misuse of truth. Also, the feelings of Americans post 9/11 was ripe for driving another war so Cheney and Co had the perfect mix. They could go off the flimsiest excuse at the time.
To summarize: Bush and Cheney exploited American sentiment in the wake of 9/11 and grossly exaggerated reports by state agencies which were later confirmed to be misconstrued or outright false.
I don’t know. It’s hard to have a discussion in broad strokes like this, especially without receipts. The CDC clashed with Trump continuously over protocols and mandates. For example: I’m not sure which specific CDC recommendations you take umbrage with that went against medical community. There were definitely a lot of fuck-ups in that administration-from both the CDC and the executive branch.
I think if I recall correctly -because it was a while ago- you are correct: Bush and his administration did indeed pressure certain agencies in their reporting. But that wasn’t equal for all agencies. So even though it’s likely you are correct that Bush was a bad actor, it doesn’t default to calling all subsequent administrations as equally guilty. Also I can’t emphasize enough how much 9/11 skewed the American public at the time. It was a long time ago -relatively speaking - so my memory on this isnt the best.
I think you articulated your position really well. Not much I can disagree with here. I’m just wary of ultimate skepticism and having that conversation in the details is what matters imo. If we can bring receipts, all the better. Thanks
The fact that the Qatari funds have been enabled by Netanyahu is pretty etablished. The casus belli is pure speculation. Do you have a source for that?
Yes, but none of these articles link the funds to the casus belli for genocide. That could be the case, but it could also be he simply wanted to destabilize Hamas/PLO, which is what happened ultimately.
Hmm. Have I defended the IDF, or have I been critical of flimsy arguments which enable the IDF to commit more atrocities? Hmm. I wonder which one it is…
I’ve clarified my position to you multiple times, Linkerbaan. I’m pro Palestine- it’s your rhetorical devices that cause more harm. Happy to explain if you don’t understand.
Kyle Rittenhouse’s family: We’re his collateral damage (www.thedailybeast.com)
The far-right darling is accused of leaving his mom and sister high and dry as they fight eviction....
Gaza's broken water system crippling children with sickness (www.bbc.com)
Eight months of war have reduced nine-year-old Yunis Jumaa to skin and bone....
Lindroid is an Android app that lets you run Linux in a container, with support for hardware-acceleration (liliputing.com)
Netanyahu Blasts Biden Admin For ‘Withholding’ Weapons From Israel In Harshest Criticism Yet: ‘Inconceivable’ (www.forbes.com)
Why don’t you like Apple?
Real question. I would like to know what drives you to hate Apple? (In terms of privacy of course because in terms of price it’s another story).
Israel says Hamas rejects key elements of US ceasefire plan for Gaza (www.reuters.com)
Israel says Hamas weaponised rape. Does the evidence add up? (www.thetimes.com)
The Israeli government insists that Hamas formally sanctioned sexual assault on October 7, 2023. But investigators say the evidence does not stand up to scrutiny. Catherine Philp and Gabrielle Weiniger report on eight months of claim and counter-claim...
Israel’s obstruction of investigation into 7 October rape allegations risks truth never being found, advocates warn (www.middleeastmonitor.com)
Israel’s leadership is pushing the allegations that Hamas fighters raped Israeli women during the October 7 attacks for its own political objectives while the government’s ongoing refusal to allow the United Nations to conduct a full investigation into the matter threatens to hinder any evidence, advocates have warned.
US involved in Israeli operation in Nuseirat that killed over 200 Palestinians (www.middleeasteye.net)
The Israeli military had US support in rescuing four captives from Gaza in a “complex daytime operation” in Nuseirat that killed over 200 Palestinians....
Diminished Hamas switches to full insurgent mode in Gaza (www.reuters.com)
Hamas fighting force reduced by half - US officials...
A quick note on the return2ozma ban:
You may have noticed a distinct lack of return2ozma. This is due to their admitting, in a public comment, that their engagement here is in bad faith:...
Starvation already causing many deaths and lasting harm in Gaza, agencies say (www.theguardian.com)
How to fix Korea's birthrate? Put girls in school earlier, controversial report argues (koreajoongangdaily.joins.com)
“Notably, Chang’s report claims that biological females develop earlier than males do, so requiring girls to enter school at younger ages will create classes in which the two sexes are of more equal maturity as they age. This, the author posits, makes it more likely that those classmates will be attracted to each other, and...
No end to Gaza war until ’destruction’ of Hamas, says Netanyahu (www.theguardian.com)
Hamas no longer poses major threat to Israel, Biden says (www.politico.com)
President Joe Biden calls on LGBTQ+ community ‘to wave their flags of pride high’ this June (www.advocate.com)
Israeli strike hits Rafah area after Hamas barrage (www.bbc.co.uk)