livus

livus, 24 days ago

They are trying a genocide, looking like the villain while doing it kind of comes with the territory.

livus, 25 days ago

It is pretty bad. The part where the Mossad guy "ambushed" the judge in a hotel room is blatant intimidation.

livus, 25 days ago

If you read the articles on this, the timeline makes sense. No one has to be "psychic".

• In 2015 Palestine applied to join the ICC.
• Mossad's harassment of the ICC’s chief prosecutor seems to have begun straight after that.
• Israel was already breaching international law with the settlements and flouting of the Geneva Conventions, and had been accused of war crimes in e.g. 2014.

If an entity is repeatedly accused of committing crimes it's not really some crazy conspiracy if prosecutors start taking an interest in their activities. And the more they escalate their criminal activity the more likely it is that an investigation and eventual warrant will follow.

livus, 24 days ago

• She. It was the previous one, not the one that has actually laid the charges.

livus, 25 days ago

That would be a really positive outcome, their commandments are pretty good.

livus, 25 days ago

I feel the same way. He's not my friend and he's not a cute kid or something. He's a genocidal war criminal.

livus, 26 days ago

Ikr! Pretty sure its a reference to the Spanish Inquisition's expulsion of Jewish people in the 1490s.

In other words it's not just super random whataboutism, it's also a dogwhistle to the "chosen people versus antisemitic rest of the world" narrative that Netanyahu et al use to drum up support from their base.

livus, 26 days ago

the OG

Not even close.

livus, 26 days ago

Staten Island.

livus, 26 days ago

in a major blow to the American-led effort to create a maritime corridor for humanitarian supplies into the war-torn enclave

in a major blow to the American-led effort to create a ridiculous PR exercise to smokescreen their complicity in the starvation of the genocide-torn occupied territory.

Fixed it for them.

livus, 26 days ago

Because neither side is America's aIly of course.

I went on tiktok yesterday and noticed a bunch of Gen Z mentioning Sudan and DRC as well as the Gaza Genocide. So that was better than usual.

livus, 26 days ago

Doesn't really explain it, I mean the underlying Palestine/Israel thing has been going on for decades too.

The current Sudanese Civil War has only been going on for 6 months longer than the current Israel vs Gaza hostilities.

livus, 26 days ago

No one here has been hearing about it in the news for hundreds of years tho (unless some of you are undead/vampires).

Arguably the roots of the Sudan conflict go back to the 1300s.

But in both cases the modern nation-state conflicts kicked off after the colonization of the 19th centuries, and in both cases most of us have been aware of it for decades.

livus, 26 days ago

Is it naive of me to think American news must have at least reported on the international intervention into the 2004-2005 genocide?

And the separation of Sudan into two countries in 2011? Those were both pretty big; I thought that would be why the person above was calling this an old conflict.

livus, 25 days ago

Not all armed conflicts are genocides.

livus, 25 days ago

@victorz - The "fast"/ big obvious ones are Darfur and Gaza, but there's also probably Oromia, slow genocide in West Papua, Western Sahara, Xinjiang, and I think Nagorny-Karabakh and Tigray could start up again at some point. There is obviously a genocidal component to the Tatmadaw's activities in Myanmar but right now they seem to be getting their asses kicked by the alliance which includes ethnic minority armies.

Then there are the more obscure genocides that are mostly only mentioned outside western and english-language news media, for example the ongoing slow genocide of the Baloch people in the Balochistan region.

livus, 25 days ago

Definitely. The US isn't likely to like either side given one of them is tight with Iran and the other one has dealings with Russian mercenaries.

livus, 26 days ago

It does seem to be. The juxtaposition of Russia invading Ukraine and Israel invading Gaza is pretty stark.

livus, 26 days ago

Back when they told them to go to that evacuation zone many predicted this is what would happen.

It must be so terrifying to keep being told to move to places and then being attacked when you get to them.

livus, 27 days ago

I think you might be missing a few. Eg Nicaragua, Maldives.

In terms of the West, Ireland, Spain, and Norway are probably close to openly calling it a genocide.

livus, 27 days ago

Yes, sooner or later it will be recognised by most.

I'm old enough to remember the years after the Cambodian Genocide when the US supported the genocidal Khmer Rouge being the representatives for Cambodia at the UN, locking out the actual government of Cambodia.

These travesties happen every so often.

livus, 27 days ago

If I had to guess I'd say the brain worm has a grudge against the Museo del Cerebro in Peru, which is a museum that houses hundreds of human brains including some with brain parasites.

Anything which helps us study and eliminate them is its natural enemy.

livus, 27 days ago

They are pointing out that it was intentional and part of a widwr pattern.

That genocidal ghoul Netanyahu is 36,000 deep in corpses right now, many of them children. He hasn't suddenly grown a conscience or empathy. Something else is going on.

livus, 28 days ago

In my country we have a law that self defense has to be proportional and you are only allowed to use enough force to stop the attack.

It can't be like "the guy down the street threw a rock through my window so I go and kill his whole family in their beds".

livus, 28 days ago

Because it's a sound principle.

Genociding tens of thousands of people, half of whom are children, is not self defense.

livus, 28 days ago

@TheFonz I'm finding this conversation a bit puzzling.

You sort of sound like you want this discussion to cover all those tired Hasbara "talking points" and their common rebuttals on Americam discuasions or something, hence IsRaEl HaS A Right to DeFenD ItSelf.

This isn't a game or a logic 101 essay though. It's ordinary people from multiple countries discussing a humanitarian catastrophe that has killed over 37000 people.

livus, 28 days ago

Dresden was a horrendous war crime too.

I can see how it's harder for you to argue against war crimes from other nations if you're an apologist for war crimes committed by your own ancestors.

But many of us don't need to jump through those particular rhetorical hoops. The barrage of war crimes in WW2 was part of the impetus for strengthening international law against that shit.

livus, 27 days ago

@TheFonz I'm sorry but you haven't expressed your position clearly enough for me to summarize and I'm not interested in trying to forensically reconstruct it from your comments as it's too ameliorised.

Like I said above, this conversation isn't some kind of game for points. It's just us talking about our views.

or do you only like to hear yourself

False dichotomy, and a bit of a swing and a miss.

livus, 27 days ago

@Linkerbaan aah that makes sense, thanks for the explanation. I couldn't work out what on earth they were getting at.

livus, 27 days ago

Anyone reading along in this thread should probably check the veracity of these claimed ratios. Wikipedia has an okay overview.

It's also worth noting that the Russian wars in Chechnya were particularly notable for their brutal war crimes.

@FlyingSquid

livus, 27 days ago

Pol Pot springs to mind...

livus, 27 days ago

I'm comfortable with my level of engagement thanks.

You seem to have used personal insults on half the people in the thread at this point, and you keep complaining about Lemmy.

I get that you're frustrated that we're not talking about whatever it is you want to talk about, but that's life sometimes.

livus, 27 days ago

Yeah, I'm in New Zealand and from here their election looked like the main thrust of most of it was about forcing Democrats to vote for the establishment warmonger Hillary instead of their best candidate Bernie Sanders.

Trump was sort of just a meme candidate for a long time because analysts didn't realise he'd been gifted the pre-Trump Cambridge Analytica package (drain the swamp etc) by disaster capitalists.

livus, 29 days ago

The white South Africans did not starve to death when we boycotted them over Apartheid. The Israeli people can stand a few sanctions over their democratic choice to allow openly genocidal actions.

Personally the first sanction I would like to see against Israel is a complete embargo on buying or selling any weapons, armaments, or other military equipment. This would not hurt the innocent but it would hurt arms dealers and genocidaires alike.

livus, 29 days ago

@That edit was your attempt at some dark humour?

If Gazans stand in a big group anywhere without permission from the occupiers, they can get bombed and sniped and chased with drones.

The majority are internally displaced and homeless. A significant number are now starving to death. We know from doctors - before the IDF rounded them up and imprisoned them in Sde Teiman (Israel's version of Abu Ghraib torture detention) - the number of burn injuries, amputations, etc civilians are facing.

And you dare to sit there and compare these to the uninjured, well fed citizens of a richer nation that all have their own homes to sit in and organize their protests about how they want their hostages back?

Palestinians want their hostages back too. The thousands of children whose parents have been killed and vice versa want their loved ones back too.They are HUMAN BEINGS just like you. If Israel had treated them as humans and observed international law instead of turning into a rogue genocidal state the civilians of Palestine may have had the same chance for expression that you do yourself.

Try for some compassion.

livus, 28 days ago

Then Israel will have a strong incentive to stop the Gaza Genocide and trigger the end of the embargo long before it runs out of military equipment.

That's how sanctions work.

livus, 28 days ago

Edit: Btw, Gazans voted for Hamas, too.

Interesting point. Far fewer Gazans voted for Hamas compared to the number of Israelis who voted for the current genocidal government of Israel.

Let's see... the median age in Gaza on Oct 7 was 18. The last election in Gaza was in 2006. That means half the people now in Gaza weren't even born yet.

Of the 50% who were alive then, only around half were of voting age in 2006. Therefore 25% of the current population were eligible to vote in 2006.

According to Wikipedia, turnout in Gaza was around 74%. 74% of 25% = 18.5% In other words, just 18.5% of present day Gazans actually voted at all in the last election.

In that election Hamas won 46.5% of the vote, winning in North Gaza, losing in places like Rafah.

So the number of Gazans who actually voted for Hamas is probably somewhere around 10% and mathematically can't be above 18.5%.

If you don't support sanctions against Israel on the grounds that not everyone voted for this then you shouldn't support Israel's collective punishment of Palestinians either.

livus, 28 days ago

They did protest Hamas before the war. I can't tell if you're lying on purpose or just ignorant about Gaza.

Times of Israel, August 2023:

On July 30, thousands of people throughout the Gaza Strip took to the streets demanding better living conditions, in a rare display of public anger against the Hamas regime. The following Friday, August 4, hundreds of people rallied again in various parts of the enclave.

Popular discontent with the Hamas regime in Gaza has been simmering for years. Since the group wrested control of the coastal strip from the Fatah-run Palestinian Authority in 2007, large-scale protests have taken place on several occasions, most recently in April 2015, January 2017 and again in 2019. Each time, protests were repressed by Hamas security forces and did not lead to any significant changes for the local population.

Here's Human Rights Watch in 2019 reporting on the violent way Hamas suppressed protestors with beatings and arrests:

The crackdown isn’t an aberration. In October, we published “Two Authorities, One Way, Zero Dissent,” a report showing that Hamas authorities routinely arrest and torture peaceful critics and opponents with impunity. We found Hamas often holds detainees for short periods, sometimes just hours, but during that time taunts, threatens, beats, and tortures in order to punish critics and, apparently, to deter them from further activism.

Immediately after Hamas was elected in 2006 there were protests and violent reprisals. Surely you should know this.

livus, 28 days ago

I'm glad that you don't support collective punishment of Palestinians.

That's the common ground between you and me. Where we disagree is in what steps to take to stop it. I'm so old that I boycotted Apartheid and later had the very moving experience of being thanked for my country doing that by people who had lived through it.

From some of your comments in here I think you have trouble seeing the enormity of what is happening to your fellow human beings in Gaza right now. In recent years sanctions have been used to halt an attempted genocide in Ethiopia and to weaken the power of the genocidaires in Myanmar. It's actually usually only when superpowers (China, USA) stand in our way that they become less effective.

livus, 26 days ago

Thanks for your comment. Fwiw I get most of my information from credible NGOs, and even if UNRWA was magically 100% terrorists (implausible. I've met an Israeli woman who worked as a humanitarian in Gaza and I think she had a pretty good idea of that space) I wouldn't feel any differently about the Gaza Genocide. Nothing excuses it.

Similarly, preventing civilians losing their lives will always take precedence over preventing civilians losing their jobs.

I'm from a former colony myself, and history has taught that the only ways Israel can avoid being attacked by the people it has dispossessed would be if it either:

• stops colonizing/settling/occupying/blockading and makes reparations or
• genocides and displaces the population to a tiny fraction.

It's disappointing that in this day and age most Israeli citizens prefer either option 2 or else the status quo of ongoing occupation and violence, but it's not that unusual.

Personally, I think Israel is highly unlikely to turn back from genocide now. The only hope is for international intervention.

livus, 29 days ago

Sorry if this sounds rude of me but that suggestion is absurd. Myanmar is 90% Buddhist. The monastery was attacked by the junta (government military). The junta also attacks Muslims. From your own link:

Soldiers and police sometimes stood by "while atrocities have been committed before their very eyes, including by well-organized ultra-nationalist Buddhist mobs," said the rapporteur, Tomas Ojea Quintana. "This may indicate direct involvement by some sections of the state or implicit collusion and support for such actions."

Which of course was confirmed later when junta soldiers began giving testimony about their role in killing Muslims in the Rohingya Genocide

@saltesc

livus, 29 days ago

I hate to break it to you but Buddhists killed those Buddhists.

Myanmar is 90% Buddhist and in the middle of a brutal civil war after over 60 years of military dictatorship by Buddhists, against a civilian population of mostly Buddhists.

Myanmar is also home to a sect of violent extremist Buddhists who supported genocide.

livus, 1 month ago

When they're trying to discourage someone from raising money to help starving children, is there like, a brief moment where they wonder if they're the bad guy?

livus, 1 month ago

I wonder how someone like this squares it away in their According to her beliefs she was keeping dead human bodies in her house.

livus, 1 month ago

Ben-Gvir also spoke at the march, saying that what the protesters are calling for was the "true solution."

livus, 1 month ago

The ADL are about as credible as Gwynneth Paltrow at this point but you're right, we don't need to play into his strategy and go there, because genocidal settler colonialism is a much closer analogy.

There's an interesting book by Sven Lindqvist that convincingly argues that the blueprint for the Holocaust was basically there in previous colonial practices, eg the death camps for the Herero and Namaqua people in the Namibian Genocide.

livus, 1 month ago

Snopes says it's real.

livus, 1 month ago

Fair enough. I think you're right. Best way to handle the "post truth" era.