Okay how about 25? 24 and 3 fingers?..wrong cartel! Sinaloa guys, we’ll get back to you later… At! I meant at you later. Sorry I’m new at this negotiation shit. Let’s start over.
Okay, my name is…is…hmmm… Pedro. What’s your name? And you said Carlos does have the two testicles? Okay okay. Look let’s not do someth…he has only one testicle not? Not his testicle. Oh man, poor kid, listen guy, I was just pooping and I picked up the phone without checking, I think you got the wrong number. Yeah I’m real sorry. I hope you find Carlo’s friends, I really do.
Don’t pepe pecas pica papas me! I can say that with my ass backwards any day. And if your up for it I can anti tarabitatongulate any plank that your best tarabitatongular has entarabintantigulated. This is something that only a brown person from my colloquial origins would understand. So if you would please allow me to make fun of my own people in a language other than my original one, I would admire you deeply.
The framework that has been laid out by negotiators says that during a first six-week pause in the fighting, Hamas should release 40 of the remaining hostages, including all the women as well as sick and elderly men. In exchange, hundreds of Palestinian prisoners would be released from Israeli prisons.
Hamas has told international mediators – which include Qatar and Egypt - it does not have 40 living hostages who match those criteria for release, both sources said.
CNN’s record of the conditions of the hostages also suggests there are fewer than 40 living hostages who meet the proposed criteria.
Hamas just hasn’t been taking civilian noncombatants as hostages like Israel has been doing.
Most hostages are combatants, and that doesn’t meet the details for this requirement
The majority of the almost 100 hostages who remain alive are believed to be male IDF soldiers or men of military reserve age.
Again, your own article says CNN knows there aren’t 40 hostages left that aren’t noncombatants.
Israel keeps taking civilians hostage, so they have enough.
Since 10/7 the only Israelis Hamas interacts with are combatants. They literally don’t have enough hostages left for this deal, which is likely how the deal arrived at that number.
It’s something that literally is impossible to comply with, and Israel gets to blame Hamas.
This ain’t complicated bub. Your own source agrees with me.
I am not here to give Israel a W, but Hamas still has a number of civilian captives from the original October 7 attack. Just not as many surviving as was assumed.
According to Israel’s own figures, there are 90 or so living hostages and 30 or so bodies still held by Hamas IIRC. Apparently most of the 90 survivors are non-civilians, based on what Hamas is saying, but some of them still are.
But the article OP linked even says there aren’t 40 noncombatants left…
Right, I acknowledged that. It’s just that no one knows who specifically is counted in the alive vs dead hostage statistics. It wouldn’t surprise me if Israel purposefully set a number of civilians that they knew had likely already died, knowing that Hamas would not be able to comply with the request, to justify continuing the conflict.
I would say take it with a grain of salt, but there’s enough international scrutiny that I would say the list of missing is probably reliable enough. People in Israel are still protesting the Israeli government about that very frequently. Not everyone missing from October 7th has been returned, alive or dead. Many probably buried beneath rubble from IDF attacks, to be honest, since several were already confirmed killed by “friendly” fire.
Edit: to add, it is worth noting that Hamas is not the only group that participated in Oct 7 and took hostages. There are likely other hostages that they cannot account for because they were taken by other groups.
You only addressed half the statement. They are not saying that Israel doesn’t take civilian hostages. They are questioning the claim that Hamas doesn’t take civilian hostages. Follow the thread please.
The temporal qualifier is inherent in the grammar of the statement. Perhaps you didn’t notice it?
In English, the present perfect continuous has/hasn’t been taking implies a frequent and repeated action since a fixed time in the past - in this case, presumably, the start of the current conflict until now.
Since Hamas only took civilian hostages on one occasion, i.e. October 7th, and not again since, it is not true to say that Hamas “has been taking hostages”. They took hostages. Once.
Israel, on the other hand, have been taking Palestinian civilians captive, repeatedly, since October 7th. That’s the difference.
You’re inferring the start point for the perfect continuous and assigning Oct 7; I’m assigning the start point to be the overall conflict in a broader context. I’m being charitable. I might be wrong, but I can’t read OPs mind so I’m being charitable.
Sources? Do I even want your sources at this point…last time I asked for evidence you gave me a verbal statement by the prime minister and that was good enough in your book. You really don’t need much convincing when the evidence aligns with your bias, do you?
Last time you got a source you denied reality and pretended that “no that doesn’t count”. I’m not sure why you are bringing this up it only makes you look bad.
The final death toll from the attack is now thought to be 695 Israeli civilians, including 36 children, as well as 373 security forces and 71 foreigners, giving a total of 1,139.
The Palestinian militants who raided Israel in the Hamas attacks on Oct. 7 killed over 1,200 people, according to Israel, and abducted over 240 civilians and soldiers, bringing them back to the Gaza Strip.
With Hamas appearing to be unable to reach 40 in the proposed categories, Israel has pushed for Hamas to fill out the initial release with younger male hostages, including soldiers, the Israeli official said.
I was quoting the article, which contained important information. I would presume that the hostages want to return home, as do their loved ones. I don’t think that the number of combatants released by Hamas would constitute a significant increase to Israel’s fighting force, at least in the numbers mentioned in the article, and this seems like a bad excuse to disrupt hostage exchanges.
The other two newly released hostages were a brother and sister, Belal and Aisha al-Ziadna, aged 18 and 17 respectively, according to the Israeli prime minister’s office. They are Bedouin Arab citizens of Israel and among four members of their family taken hostage while they were milking cows on a farm.
Wahid Alhuzail, who chairs a group for Bedouins kidnapped on Oct. 7, said he was happy they were freed. “But it’s not completely fulfilling. We want everyone to come home and for nobody to be stuck in the hands of the terror organization Hamas,” he told Reuters.
“We want these people to go home,” Hamad said. “And, also, we want our prisoners now to go home. So I think we are ready now to have complete compromise, complete a deal, in order to receive all the hostages, either military or civilians.”
The majority of the almost 100 hostages who remain alive are believed to be male IDF soldiers or men of military reserve age. Hamas is expected to try to use to them in later phases to try to negotiate more significant concessions, including more high-level prisoners and a permanent end to the war.
Yes, they understand the difference, but seemingly not in the same way you do, they seem to think releasing soldiers could help end the conflict.
Edit: also your reply doesn’t address what I said.
Since 7 October, according to the Israeli authorities, four Palestinian detainees have died in Israeli detention facilities in circumstances that have not yet been impartially investigated. Two of the four are workers from the occupied Gaza Strip, held incommunicado by the Israeli army in military detention centres, whose deaths were only made public by the army after an inquiry by Israeli newspaper Haaretz.
This similarly does not support your original assertion, from your original article:
“This ends in complications and sometimes even in the patient’s death,” the doctor wrote, Haaretz reported.
Is there a reason you choose to embellish (and directly substitute words in the article for your own personal opinion) instead of accurately convey what the article says?
This is flagrantly misrepresenting what this discussion is about as I’ve directly quoted. This is not conducive to informative discussion, and a disservice to this sub.
They’ve found bodies of hostages all the time. One just yesterday. I suppose you could do some math to estimate probability of who is living. Only Hamas would know,except they claim not to.
The argument is that israel is intentionally killing kidnapped israelis to remove leverage Hamas has over israel. And that he was endorsing israel doing that.
Hamas kidnapping all israelis would mean the IDF (somehow not being kidnapped) would try to kill all israels. Not sure how that makes them safer.
They are probably still there, check hospitals, community centres, school, emergency camps… you will probably find their corpses under all the rubble from Israeli fired American and British missiles.
The criteria are for women and the elderly to be released. The majority of the remaining hostages are men of military age (as Israel has mandatory conscription, they are military personnel by definition).
And even when they try their best, it’s hard when a larger terrorist organization is actively trying to genocide them and bomb everything they know to rubble.
The framework that has been laid out by negotiators says that during a first six-week pause in the fighting, Hamas should release 40 of the remaining hostages, including all the women as well as sick and elderly men. In exchange, hundreds of Palestinian prisoners would be released from Israeli prisons.
Hamas has told international mediators – which include Qatar and Egypt - it does not have 40 living hostages who match those criteria for release, both sources said.
…
With Hamas appearing to be unable to reach 40 in the proposed categories, Israel has pushed for Hamas to fill out the initial release with younger male hostages, including soldiers, the Israeli official said.
I mean IDF has been dishonest certainly but this is something that has been thoroughly examined and vetted by this point. We would know if there were doubts about the number.
These events are also different because they are singular points in time—the lies serve to diffuse criticism until the public attention has faded so that less invested members of the public never learn the truth. So I’m not sure I agree they are foolish unfortunately, though there is of course a long term risk with using this tactic too often.
The hostage count is an ongoing thing. If they continued to stand by numbers that people are commonly discussing and have learned are incorrect, it would be much more embarrassing for them than the above incidents which are mostly forgotten by the general public, excepting perhaps the most recent one which did seem to break through a bit more.
Well, OP linked a CNN article. And CNN says there aren’t 40 noncombatant hostages…
So, no…
We don’t have to just listen to Hamas or Israel.
Because Israel hasn’t been able to kill every international journalist that investigated their genocide. They’ve killed a shit ton, but not all of them.
You are really stretching logic here in order to justify your hate towards Israel or approval towards Hamas. Hamas kidnaps 100s of people, Israel wants 40 back and you say they are making unreasonable demands that can’t be followed? What should they say… naah keep em for raping and playing? Consider it a token of good faith?
An estimated 200 people, including 30 teenagers and young children and 20 people over the age of 60, are being held hostage in Gaza, Israel’s public broadcaster Kan said on Thursday, citing military sources.
Hamas says it has 200 hostages and that 50 more are held by other armed groups in the enclave. It said more than 20 hostages have been killed by Israeli air strikes, but has not given any further details.
In November 2023, Palestinian militants held around 250 people from Israel, including Israeli nationals and non-Israelis following their capture during the Hamas-led attack on Israel.
Edit 2: my mistake, they corroborate their numbers (250)
What are the demands of each side? Can we lay them out and compare? Or do we know already that Hamas demands are reasonable? Do we always have to take sides? I personally want what’s best for the Palestinian people so I want a ceasefire and return to negotiations. But this partisan flailing isn’t helping the cause. Unless of course we’re ok sacrificing more Palestinians? I don’t get it.
Yeah, I’m not ruling out Israel unknowingly killing their own (or even knowingly I guess) but I think regardless if an explanation (that’s true) by either was possible, it’d be better.
THEY SHOULD HAVE, but they said they don’t. Some 130 people are still missing. That means they killed hostages. Plain and simple. The request was to return first 40 hostages which should include all the women, elderly and others in a need of care, then fill whatever is left up to 40 with men. Then negotiations can start.
So, there are no hostages anymore. They either raped them to death or tortured them to death. And now Israel’s retribution will get even worse.
Or Israel killed them. Why isn’t that a possibility? Did a force field go up around them while Israel bombed all the places they claimed were Hamas locations?
That’s bullshit excuse. If I hold you in front of oncoming bullets, I killed you, not whoever shot the bullets. If you jump in front of a car you killed yourself. Driver didn’t kill you.
Except Hamas didn’t hold them in front of bullets, Israel intentionally targeted places they were likely to be held because they were going after Hamas with no regard for casualties.
Let’s not forget they shot their own people who had escaped and were waiving a white flag while trying to get back to Israeli forces. Claiming Israel has killed their own people being held hostage isn’t bullshit, it’s literally a matter of record. And that’s not even the only instance you can find being reported, there’s a report from March 1st saying another 7 hostages were killed.
If you jump in front of a car you killed yourself. Driver didn’t kill you.
What if the driver ran up on the curb to hit the guy next to you? That’s absolutely the drivers fault.
I’m not justifying hamas’ actions in the slightest. But let’s not pretend that Israel isn’t at fault for murdering the hostages we know about, or have decades long evidence of lack of care for Palestinian life. Those points alone are enough to destroy any notion that your above assertion is the most likely:
They either raped them to death or tortured them to death. And now Israel’s retribution will get even worse.
Funny how zionists only ever talk about the possibility of Hamas intentionally killing the hostages, and never a peep about the hostages that Israel murdered in their negligent attacks on hamas.
We can. Hamas has been very clear. End the blockade. Remove troops from West Bank. Recognize a Palestinian state. Allow Palestinian refugees to return. Release Palestinians being held without charge. (hostages but with a nicer veneer)
Oh come on. What kind of “return elderly people, pregnant women and other feeble hostages” is unreasonable demand? What would be reasonable demand? Keep them forever. Abuse them?
If Hamas is able to keep themselves save from six months of Israeli bombing, maybe Israel shouldn’t have spent six months bombing Gaza and killing over 10,000 children.
So based on your own claims, Israel is far better at killing innocent people than Hamas could even hope to be.
Am never going to try to justify civilian deaths, because there’s no justification. But the fact is if you kick hornets nest you’ll get stung. You can’t expect any country on this planet to ignore such an attack because if they do, they risk allowing such attack to repeat.
You say there’s no justification and then you justify it in the next sentence by implying that it’s Hamas’ fault that all of those innocent children died.
Why should over 13,000 dead Palestinian children be the “expected outcome” of far fewer dead Israelis and far, far fewer hostages? Because that still sounds like a justification.
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