Games that force you to make hard choices

Hey all!

I’d like to request recommendations (spoiler free!) for games where you need to make choices, take sides, kill or not kill someone, follow or do not follow orders, but where the consequences actually matter - and most importantly, where the choices aren’t “obviously good choice vs obviously bad choice”.

Give me games where I can choose to side with one kingdom or another, but there’s no clear moral high ground, or where I need to decide to save someone dear to me at the cost of innocent lives. I do not want things like “save all the children and get the happy ending and make flowers grow” versus “kill everybody and everything blows up and the world gets all its water replaced by acid”.

What games fit this requirement?

LZamperini,

Telltales walking dead

dirtySourdough,

There it is! I was looking for this one

EvilBit,

If you want more cinematic games, the Quantic Dream portfolio has a couple. Heavy Rain and Detroit: Become Human are both notable examples. I remember having some serious anxiety playing Heavy Rain, in the best way.

Carighan,
@Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

I actually liked Beyond 2 Souls, too. Didn’t age well at all especially with the naked model allegations and all, but playing it at the time there were some intense moments in there.

EvilBit,

I considered calling that one out but I never got very far in it so I couldn’t speak for the decision making depth. But thanks for the input!

EvilBit,

Also, I think it’s important to note that we don’t talk about Fahrenheit/Indigo “Super Saiyan zombie fight against the internet” Prophecy.

ConstipatedWatson,

I can’t speak for the other games mentioned in this thread, but in the case of Heavy Rain it was very enjoyable that often you had to make quick decisions or the game would choose for you

EvilBit,

I agree! If by “enjoyable” you mean “incredibly stressful and intense”!

Few games have given me the same sense of “ohgodohgodohgod” as Heavy Rain did.

ConstipatedWatson,

Hahahahaha, you’re right. My choice of words is very debatable, but it’s true that the moment you had to make a choice was implemented well and I was very concentrated in the heat of the moment

EvilBit,

No it’s definitely enjoyable, I’m just kidding around. It’s that it’s the complex kind of enjoyable that is fueled by adrenaline and harmless anxiety. I’m a big horror fan, so it feels familiar to that fandom.

skybreaker,
@skybreaker@lemmy.world avatar

Yes. I was just gonna suggest Heavy Rain.

dsemy,

Fallout New Vegas - You can literally help a gang take over the starting town like 5 minutes into the game.

Souls games - The games constantly autosave in the background and (sometimes out of nowhere) present you with some very unclear choices. In Sekiro you have a choice around two thirds into the game which causes the game to end immediately (with a very bad ending); since the game autosaves all the time, once you make that choice you have to start the entire game over and get to that point again to make a different choice.

Most CRPGs I played had meaningful choices (sometimes having extreme effects on the game world):

Planescape: Torment - Best CRPG ever IMO.

Tyranny, Pillars of Eternity - Modern CRPGs by Obsidian, both amazing. I haven’t played Pillars of Eternity 2 yet.

Shurimal,

In Sekiro you have a choice around two thirds into the game which causes the game to end immediately (with a very bad ending); since the game autosaves all the time, once you make that choice you have to start the entire game over and get to that point again to make a different choice.

Yeah, that's bad game design IMO unless the game is an hour or two long. The player should be able to roll back when they fuck up that much. In fact, only one save file and no way to roll back if it gets corrupted or you realize how badly you have fucked up is always a bad design.

dsemy,

No

The fact you can’t rollback means every choice really matters.

Edit: Also there are multiple endings and New Game+ so you are encouraged to play the game again anyway.

I beat Sekiro like 5 times at this point

LwL,

The random premature endings were already annoying in nier automata, and that did have save files. I almost never replay things, I get extremely bored. Took me forever to get through the second playthrough of nier automata as well, since that is so similar to the first.

If a game pulled that on me I just wouldn’t play it ever again and watch a cut scene compilation or something.

dsemy,

Then don’t play those games? I don’t understand the point of your comment.

LwL,

Because I am going to know ahead of time if a game does that? And it’s not like I didn’t enjoy nier automata.

Also no ones saying games can’t have anything like that, just that it’s not really what would generally be considered good design.

dsemy, (edited )

In Sekiro, while it is not made clear that the decision will end the game (after a boss fight), it is obviously a very important decision, so I don’t think making the stakes actually high is bad design - the stakes being high is one of the reasons I like souls games.

I didn’t like Nier Automata and didn’t play it much, so I don’t know about its abrupt endings, and how they are presented and handled.

Edit: I didn’t mean to be rude in my last comment, I was being genuine - souls games are known for this stuff (not specifically abrupt endings, but rather abrupt meaningful choices).

Your reply made me realize however that it might just be Nier’s implementation of the idea which you dislike, not the idea in general.

LwL,

Yea, from how you made it sound it seems similar to how it ended up being in nier - make a choice that does seem like it’ll end the game, but really it’s probably not very serious - credit roll, hope you saved recently. It would’ve very much benefited from simply autosaving at the correct time.

Imo it kinda depends on what kind of ending it is, if it’s still conclusive but maybe a bad end, that seems alright. Just if it clearly leaves me unsatisfied I’d be annoyed. I’d still really prefer just having a reload option, but I’d also rather game devs stick to their vision, just like fromsoft ganes really don’t need an explicit easy mode, it makes sense they’d also stick to this if they want to do it. It’ll be great for some people, and others will hate it, and that’s fine.

stsquad,

Wasteland 3 has a number of mutually incompatible outcomes that force you to decide how things will end up.

germtm_,

Spec Ops: The Line is a pretty decent pick when it comes to having “morally ambiguous choices”. the game itself states that there are no “real good choices” and thus, you must pick between the two evils.

Donjuanme,

That was what I was going to recommend as well!

ryathal,

The right choice is to just stop, but this is a phenomenal game that should be experienced by more people. Just don’t let kids play it, it’s very much an adult game.

kratoz29,

I scrolled too much to see this one.

flumph,
@flumph@programming.dev avatar

I saved your post to try out the game. Sadly, it appears that it’s being erased from the Internet.

“Spec Ops: The Line … has been delisted from Steam, with other online stores to follow.”

germtm_,

that’s very unfortunate, curse you, licensing shenanigans!

Rai,

LISA, definitely.

Is Terry’s life worth it?

This time?

Deestan,

That game was something!

It was a bit too painful to play for me to finish it, so I had to look up discussions and videos on it.

That’s not a complaint. “LISA the painful” did its job perfectly. I just didn’t have the stamina to handle it at the time.

MalachaiConstant,

It’s an ugly little masterpiece that emotionally abuses you

ericbomb,

If you like randomly made stories, you can try Rimworld.

You will quickly find yourself asking very difficult questions. Is taking on the cripple something you can afford to do? Is using medicine on a less valuable colonist smart? Do you let some of your colonists starve, or start a war with friendly neighbors? Cannibalism will make your neighbors hate you and some of your colonists might rebel over it, but that’s better than some of them starving… right?

AnonStoleMyPants,

I should play Rimworld one of these days. Always heard good things but just never got around it.

IGuessThisIsForNSFW,

If you’re into colony Sims Rimworld is amazing! Biotech and Idology are also great DLC expansions that give you a lot more options. IMO Royalty is the weakest one so if you’re just starting out I might recommend passing on it unless you really love the game

Ashtear,

I find games that have genuine path branching to be most satisfying for me in the “choices matter” department. Some games that come to mind for this are Tactics Ogre Reborn (or the PSP version), The Witcher 2, Triangle Strategy, and Baldur’s Gate 3.

There are others that have interesting decisions (especially ending/late-game ones) like Deus Ex, The Witcher 3, and Life is Strange, but I’m not sure if those quite have the scope you’re looking for.

odium,

The 3 series is the best at this.

The first game in the series is Mass Effect 3, which is followed by Witcher 3 and the sequel to that is Baldur’s Gate 3.

julianh,

Can’t wait for the next one, I hear it’s gonna be called Half-Life 3.

ConstipatedWatson,

Wait, what did you just say? So Half Life 3 is confirmed! Yay!

LanternEverywhere,

Sounds pretty much exactly like real life

kakes,

Baldur’s Gate 3 has a lot of really hard hitting decisions, and I’m in awe at how they’re able to make the story work with just how many choices there are.

Jarmer,

Ehhhh, it has a lot of decisions, yes. But in the end: do any of them matter at all? I feel like 99% of my decisions never made any kind of difference whatsoever at the end.

I did a whole bunch of stuff with Shadowheart and she wasn’t even in my ending at all. Totally missing. I did even more crazy stuff with Karlach, and in the end I was given zero dialog or options or chances to do anything with her, the game forced her to say “I’m getting too hot” and fall down and explode and die. I did by far the most stuff with my primary character Astarion, and in the end I got zero options to do anything with the woman he loved and he ran away to hide in a cave.

So… Yes there are lots of options to make decisions one way or another. But none of them matter at all whatsoever in the end. So, don’t be too in awe, because the way they make the story work is just totally ignoring anything you ever did.

MudMan,
@MudMan@kbin.social avatar

Did you miss the "no spoilers, please" bit in the OP? That's a dick move.

flumph, (edited )
@flumph@programming.dev avatar

You made choices and got the results of those choices. The alternative results are different.

!There are multiple endings where Karlach survives in different ways. Shadowheart’s story has at least three possible outcomes, maybe more that I haven’t seen. This goes on and on for each origin character. Even NPCs you encounter in Act 3 are shaped by your choices earlier in the game.!<

Frankly, based on your description, it sounds like you made a bunch of lame decisions. There’s neat endings and then the middling one you got.

Pxtl,
@Pxtl@lemmy.ca avatar

Civ Beyond Earth has the neat approach that it replaces the old “build a spaceship to alpha Centauri” with three different technological endings each with different moral implications. The game is about human transcendence so any ending is going to be about changing humanity.

The problem is that the game itself is not one of the better entries in the Civ series otherwise.

Marsupial,
@Marsupial@quokk.au avatar

Ah please tell me you’ve played Alpha Centauri.

Pxtl,
@Pxtl@lemmy.ca avatar

Yes, many many many years ago. Beyond Earth is the palest of pale imitation.

LemmySoloHer,
@LemmySoloHer@lemmy.world avatar

Disco Elysium is a fantastic one. There are an insane amount of choices that shape how you go about the investigation of the hanged man and ultimately what happens beyond that investigation. Choices of who to side with, how to side (openly or playing multiple sides, etc.), choices that ultimately define what kind of detective you are (by-the-book boring, superstar douchebag, violent tough guy, Sherlock Holmes-esque genius, etc., including my favorite: Twin Peaks Lynchian detective that bases their decisions off of dreams, intuition and imaginary conversations with the dead body), and even how failing or succeeding at something can lead to progress in very different ways. If you fail to hit that person you tried to punch, or miss that shot with your gun, or utterly fail to convince someone to help you, you progress through in very different ways so that failing your way to the truth is just as satisfying and entertaining as succeeding your checks to get there.

And of course Fallout: New Vegas. Whether you choose to support the New California Republic, Caesar’s Legion, Mr. House, or a truly independent New Vegas, none of them are perfect. Each succeeds in an ideal society in some ways but completely fails at others, leaving you to decide which imperfect system you feel is the right one for the world instead of shoving an obvious answer in your face.

Carighan,
@Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

Or maybe I am some kind of supercop… 🤔

Disco: Elysium really is an absolutely fantastic game. Hard to describe how much it moved the goal post for these games.

TurboHarbinger,

Frostpunk

LifeCoffeeGaming,

+1 for Frostpunk. Great city builder where the choices you make are often between the lesser of two evils. Very difficult, expect to lose your first few runs!

oxideseven,

SO STRESSFUL!

I love this game so much. I have to constantly walk away from the stress lol.

Shard,

Mass Effect 3.

Choosing between the 3 primary colors was the toughest choice of my life.

Marsupial,
@Marsupial@quokk.au avatar

God damnit.

I’d completely forgotten about that shit. What a let down after a years long multi game play through.

Every choice made in every game led to none of it mattering.

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