Putin links Ukraine to Moscow massacre without evidence

The suspected gunmen “tried to hide and moved toward Ukraine,” Russian president says in televised address. Kyiv denies any involvement.

Russia’s President Vladimir Putin on Saturday suggested that terrorists who killed at least 133 people in Friday night’s attack at a Moscow concert hall were helped by someone based in Ukraine, without providing evidence.

Ukrainian officials have denied any involvement in the massacre, for which Islamic State has claimed responsibility. It was one of the deadliest attacks on Russian soil in recent years.

Putin said 11 people have been detained in the killings, including the four gunmen. “They tried to hide and moved toward Ukraine, where, according to preliminary data, a window was prepared for them on the Ukrainian side to cross the border,” Putin said in a speech on Russian television Saturday.

Muscle_Meteor,

Oh don’t worry im sure there will be a confession soon… Under totally normal circumstances…

ILikeBoobies,

I suppose this will test the “just ignore bullying” thing

If ISIS is never given the credit they want will they attack again or move on to something else

recapitated,

Obviously the Ukrainian Islamist Nazis are responsible for Russia ignoring national security intelligence.

resetbypeer,

Doesn’t matter if it is false flag is not. The narrative will always be to blame Ukraine. This is really to feed the local population for either buy-in for more mobilization (rumors of spring/summer offensive).

He won’t say, oopsie my 350k FSB apparatus screwed up. That will be done in the background with some mysterious window diving.

phoenixz,

Since US intelligence notified them weeks ago that this was going to happen, I think it’s more likely that either they ignored it and it happened, or more likely that they let it happen to have a good tragedy they could abuse.

I’d say it the second one, since nobody came to the rescue of these poor people for like an hour, the gunmen could do whatever the hell they wanted for all that time and then just walk away. That sounds like the Russian government wasn’t interested in actually helping them.

Zuberi,
@Zuberi@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

CIA trying really hard to cover their tracks here lmao

zenitsu,

Shhh go back to eating the crayons

Neon,

makes it kinda sound like a false Flag.

But then again, ISIS took credit for it.

hannes3120,

Because Isis being able to attack inside Russia paints him as weak and doesn’t even give the option to retaliate.

If you spin it so Ukraine is behind it you can at least count on more people supporting the war against them

ours,

He can retaliate in Syria/Iraq. But he wants to keep the focus on Ukraine.

echodot,

If they didn’t attack Kazakhstan when they seized Bikinore then they’re not going to do anything to anybody else. They don’t have the manpower, let alone the equipment.

PrettyFlyForAFatGuy,

ISIS do have a history of just claiming responsibility for any attack regardless if it was actually them or not

But that’s not to say i think Ukraine did it

AllNewTypeFace,
@AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space avatar

ISIS appear to have obtained footage from the attackers’ body cameras and posted it to Telegram before anybody else.

echodot,

It doesn’t really sound like a false flag because it doesn’t really help them and it actually makes them look weak. The security forces are so pathetic that an external security force was able to predict the attack and even told them with weeks worth of warning that this was about to happen.

I’m pretty confident that this attack is actually legitimate, actually happened, was committed by IS, and the Russian security forces are so ineffective that they allowed it to go ahead. But Russia is in “blame everything bad on the Ukrainians” mode. Is zero mystery or intrigue here.

Treczoks,

Why would he need any evidence for that? He has more than enough propaganda outlets to spin information and lies however he likes. Without those, he would have been out of job years ago

homesweethomeMrL,

Pooty Poot: How can we make our illegal and outrageous war in Ukraine more illegal and outrageous? Aha! I’ve got it!

tsonfeir,
@tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

Ahh yes. Putin is warned. Putin chooses to allow it. Putin blames Ukraine, justifying more action against Ukraine. Russian media are forced to parrot Putin, convincing half the country, and the other half stay silent or fall out of a window.

derpgon,

And most of all, he does not care whether people die if it can fuel a war - where more people WILL die.

Fuck Putler

tsonfeir,
@tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

I think he wants them to die. He’s making more room in prisons.

Zehzin,
@Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

ISIS worked really hard for you to just give the credit to someone else you prick

GrymEdm,

Putin’s government was warned weeks in advance and dropped the ball badly. Now they need to turn bad press into useful press by placing blame on Ukraine so Russia stays focused on that war. I sincerely doubt they have the military power available to start meaningful reprisals against Islamic State in Afghanistan.

ObviouslyNotBanana, (edited )
@ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world avatar

I’m not saying they dropped the ball on purpose but they obviously had some knowledge about it. Though authoritarian regimes don’t tend to be good at security either way. They’re good at oppression, but that’s not the same thing.

gravitas_deficiency,

Putin ran a false flag terrorist operation to get into power in the first place. Attempting to redirect the blame for an actual terrorist attack (assuming, of course, it’s not just another false flag) would genuinely be less extreme - and, in point of fact, the 1999 apartment bombings had like 3x the death and injury counts that this attack had.

Everythingispenguins,

I genuinely can’t decide if this is a false flag or not.

gravitas_deficiency,

That’s precisely my point

Habahnow,

I feel this isn’t a false flag operation because it makes him look bad.

  1. the US warned them about this operation. 2)Putin publicly said that the West was only making up those lies to cause issues within the country.
  2. there did not appear to be clear indication of who committed the attack. A better false flag would have been making it look more like a Ukrainian operation.

Maybe I’m wrong, but it looks more like Russia got caught with their pants down, with the us pre-emptive rubbing dirt in the wound.

GBU_28,

Wouldn’t potential reprisals happen in Syria?

GrymEdm, (edited )

I don’t know - it’s possible as I’ve heard of Islamic State being linked to several nations. However, OP’s article mentions Afghanistan specifically:

“A U.S. intelligence official told The Associated Press that U.S. intelligence agencies had learned the group’s branch in Afghanistan was planning an attack in Moscow and shared the information with Russian officials.”

GBU_28,

Good point

barsoap,

Syria, or more precisely supporting Assad to ensure they keep their port, is why Russia is in ISIS’ crosshairs. Why wouldn’t ISIS strike in Moscow if they get the chance?

anticolonialist,

I point to the US and the CIA

remotelove,

iTs a CoNsPirAcY!

Seriously though, was that really your default answer?

anticolonialist,

From the group that’s never had to retract a story due to inaccuracies

remotelove,

The history of how ISIS formed is common knowledge. Without a doubt, the US had a part in it due to the number of years that were spent in the middle east. By the same token, you could say that many organizations in many countries “created ISIS”.

Do you not comprehend that the title of that article is still click bait? If you read the paragraph immediately after, it walks back from the click-bait title almost immediately.

Also, who the fuck shares screenshots as a reference? Do you think this is Twitter or something?

anticolonialist,

The US uses their creation ISIS as a rotating villain to create the circumstances and manufacturer people’s consent for war.

remotelove, (edited )

You got all that from a headline, eh?

It’s obvious you are just on a mission to troll. That, or you are legitimately damaged.

Regardless, some self-awareness might help: journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/…/0963721417718261

DarkThoughts,

Go to one of your Tankie instances. The US literally warned them a couple weeks ago.

anticolonialist,

You mean the exact same warning that Blinken is now trying to deny that they had knowledge of? In the same way that Biden threatened the Nordstrearm 2 pipeline a few weeks before it was bombed? The US is a terrorist Nation that has always projected what they were about to do

DarkThoughts,

You mean the exact same warning that Blinken is now trying to deny that they had knowledge of?

Do I have to repeat myself? Stop with the alternate reality clownery and fuck off into your Tankie bubble.
The US warned Russia a couple weeks ago, and then again a couple days ago, which Putin himself, personally, called bullshit, dismissing it. And now he tries to blame Ukraine for it.

anticolonialist,

It was either Ukraine or the US, mostly likely the US.

yetAnotherUser,

Yeah, and Russia clearly committed 9/11 while putting Iraq’s WMDs inside the planes to make the following US invasion look ridiculous.

DarkThoughts,

🤡

Nastybutler,

Who let you out of lemmy.ml?

ours,

Bullet-proof arguments you bring to the table there bud. /s

anticolonialist,

Wouldnt be the first time the US staged events to trigger larger scale war. Remember when the US planned Operations to bomb civilian areas of Miami to blame Cuba in Operation Northwoods. Lied about WMD to invade other countries?

ours,

And how is that proof for this attack? You could use the same argument with Putin with his Moscow Apartment Bombings. Those weren’t just some hypothetical plan.

There is nothing here pointing towards a Russian false flag. It simply seems like ISIS being the horrible terrorist organization it is.

I have no love for the CIA but why is a self-named anti-colonialist defending an autocratic, imperialistic, murderous, kleptocracy? Capitalism sucks and the USA has all sorts of horrible problems but is really Putin and his thugs really what want to get behind?

The enemy of my enemy is not my friend.

anticolonialist,

Point to where I defended anyone. I was pointing out the US has a history of false flags and pointing fingers at other groups as a precursor to a larger event.

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