When Hamas raided Israel they did not think through the consequences of their actions. These types of actions will be taken personally by members of the US ruling class. The ruling class will punish Hamas and the Palestinians through the Jews. That's just how it works. Many people don't really like the way it works. The US made 1948 Israel possible and will turn a blind eye while Israel does what it has to. Most Americans don't like that, but know this is how it works.
Biden spends every waking hour supporting this Genocide. I’ve said 6 months ago that the second he stops it is the second I stop defaming his Genocidal ass.
If you live in the US or a close ally, you are complicit in the genocide of Palestinians.
If your strategy is to get people to vote for genocide joe by checks notes being condescending towards people who feel that genocide is a red line… you are just screaming into the wind mad that your politics are a dead end that nobody believes in anymore.
Genocide Joe needs to earn my vote and stop directly supporting a genocide while simultaneously spitting in the face of those raising their voices in alarm.
You want my vote? Easy pick up the phone and tell Netanyahu it’s over.
Yep will get so much better under…checks notes …Trump
I’m not being condescending to anyone who doesn’t know what they’re doing
I find it especially hilarious that you pretend this is about Palestinians like you give a fuck and you can’t even resist a trump style toddler insult GeNocIdE jOe
I find it especially hilarious that you pretend this is about Palestinians like you give a fuck and you can’t even resist a trump style toddler insult GeNocIdE jOe
I’m sorry wait what, do you question my motives for caring about a genocide?
If you want to been seen as someone who gives a fuck about Palestinians, you should probably not spread contempt for the only way to reduce harm against them. Instead you are fueling a new era of misery for them – while using a style of insult only used by Trump in recent years.
It’s just kinda funny you think people won’t notice… any of this. But sure, use your pathetic crutch, the only one you have: “if you disagree, you love genocide”.
Instead you are fueling a new era of misery for them
Sorry I dont know if I made this clear I am actually not the president of the US, it is Biden currently, thus it is him facilating a fueling a genocide. If Biden wants my vote he can wield his power to stop the genocide, and not at some indefinite time in the future, NOW .
You have made it clear you want trump to win, and anyone with a braincell knows that would be horrible news for Palestinians, those people you totally care about
You have made it clear you want trump to win, and anyone with a braincell knows that would be horrible news for Palestinians, those people you totally care about
If Biden wants my vote he can wield his power to stop the genocide, and not at some indefinite time in the future, NOW.
This is obviously a narrative you cannot let go of, but I am not pro trump in the slightest, I am a leftist.
Trying to rhetorically fuse the concepts of having a redline over directly supporting and supplying arms for a genocide and being pro Trump is unfortunately the only defense centrist democrats seem to have against the rest of us pointing out the candidate no one actually likes is again, directly fueling a genocide by supplying US made weapons, training to use those weapons, and complete diplomatic immunity for the political consequences of the heinousness of Israel’s atrocities (in not only slaughtering Palestinians indiscriminately, but artificially inducing the conditions of famine, bombing hospitals and assassinating journalists) from the international community.
Let me emphasize I can be swayed on my refusal to vote for Biden very easily. I want to vote for Biden, but if he wants my vote than he has to make that phone call with Netanyahu and stop the mass slaughter of innocent Palestinians and the genocidal erasure of their history from the landscape.
If Genocide Joe makes the phone call and stops this genocide I will immediately stop calling Biden names and commit to voting for him.
Don’t be mad at me for having standards? Be mad at the DNC and Biden for shoving such a shitty choice down voter’s throats.
This is such a toxic, dehumanizing concept… To say citizens who live in countries with corrupt governments are complicit in the actions of the very government that oppresses them is straight up evil.
Like, dude, we can’t even fucking get sick over here without risking financial ruin. And you want to say we ALL are responsible for the actions of our government - even while many of us actively protest those same actions?
Get the fuck out of here with this nonsense. You are stripping away the humanity and agency of everyone in an entire country when you assert such things. This is simply evil - it’s something that, ironically, corrupt governments love to do.
Like, dude, we can’t even fucking get sick over here without risking financial ruin. And you want to say we ALL are responsible for the actions of our government - even while many of us actively protest those same actions?
Yes, that does not mean I place the primary blame on citizens nor does it mean I don’t appreciate the power of protest (hopefully it will be enough to force Biden to change course, for the US’s sake and for Palestinians). Still, it is the US government using US citizen’s tax dollars to facilitate this genocide. That makes all US citizens complicit.
it is the US government using US citizen’s tax dollars to facilitate this genocide. That makes all US citizens complicit.
The hell it does. I don’t get a say in where my tax dollars I’m legally required to pay go. If someone steals your money, uses it to buy a gun, and murders someone with it, are you complicit?
The hell it does. I donât get a say in where my tax dollars Iâm legally required to pay go. If someone steals your money, uses it to buy a gun, and murders someone with it, are you complicit?
Obviously directly shooting someone is the most complicit someone can be, but plenty of people leave firearms out in plain view with compatible ammo also in plain view nearby. If you leave your firearm out in plain view next to ammunition where a child could easily find it yes if someone steals that gun or picks it up and fiddles with it and ends up shooting someone, you are complicit to a significant degree for posessing such a dangerous tool and not properly safeguarding it.
The same thing goes with the U.S. military industrial complex.
I guess that is really the heart of where our disagreement lies, I consider our massively over funded military industrial complex to be far closer to a gun than innocent-but-simply-unguarded cash in this metaphor.
Well at least we’ll have Genocide Trump and the important thing - the ick of having to vote for Genocide Joe and be responsible for everything he does - will be mitigated.
I honestly believe Trump could easily thrust the entire world into another major war… The idea of dismantling NATO alone would be extremely dangerous.
Anyone with a brain can see the danger here, and separate it from the other horrors and dangers. Honestly, I think the guy here screaming about it is a bad actor, though.
Are you a Trump voter regardless of this issue? I think you are. That, or your just here parroting propaganda.
No sane person is going to let Trump win over Biden because of this. Trump has openly supported Israel and their genocide more than Biden ever has or will.
It’s always about letting Trump win with folks like you. Maybe if GJ was someone worth voting for you wouldn’t have to work so hard to convince people to hold their noses and vote for corporate trash.
Yes he’s the lesser of two evils, that doesn’t make him good by default and the oh so earnest hand wringing of “this could be our last election” doesn’t actually help your case the way you (obviously) think it does.
I didn’t see a “scoop” here. White Horse declined to comment, Israel doesn’t know, then the article lists a series of unrelated incidents which could accidentally cause a reader to mistake correlation with causation.
Sanctions disproportionately hurt innocent civilians. Sanctioning individuals is one thing but entire nations shouldn’t be sanctioned. I thought we learned our lesson from Cuba but apparently not
Edit: for all the neolibs and righties downvoting me, this probably won’t do much to convince you. For anyone else, here’s an explanation on why sanctions are a terrible idea:
Basically, the entire point of sanctions if to hurt civilians. The logic is supposed to be that they will rise up and force a political change due to being angry and, often, starving to death. But that rarely happens. We just end up torturing poor people while wealthy elites get by just fine.
It’s still inhumane. It’s fine to starve people out via sanctions but not via bombings? There’s a reason people like Sanders continue to oppose sanctions
Which would be better to you? You’re a civilian somewhere - do you prefer to watch your livelyhood slowly being destroyed by your government or do you want a boom?
I’d assume the former gives you a chance to recognize it and do something, the latter is just boom.
False dichotomy. Sanctions don’t stop genocidal maniacs. They just ADD suffering to the world. Would I rather have 1 million people suffer or 2 million? I know the answer!
Which means sanctions would motivate the voters to elect a new government that opposes genocide. Which is the result we want.
Therefore, sanctions are justified because they would stop Israel’s genocide of Gaza by forcing Israeli voters to face the consequence of voting for genocidal fascists
Why is everyone speaking in hypotheticals/theory? Sanctions have been used in the past. Has it achieved the desired result? If we don’t know, maybe start with that
Yea, it’s unfortunate how ignorant, and intellectually dishonest this conversation is, so far.
When I think of sanctions today, I think of Trump putting sanctions on Venezuela, tons of leftists saying that will disproportionately hurt the people living there, the country’s finances going belly up, then thousands of Venezuelan refugees looking for a new home, and then of course the US denying its involvement and refusing to help and acrually choosing to spend ridiculous amounts of money to make the situation worse for literally everyone.
History shows it’s never quite that clear cut. However that’s rather irrelevant. I’m asking when have US sanctions sparked a popular revolution that overthrew a government that was sanctioned?
An arms embargo restricts weapons sales and the like. Sanctions are designed to harm civilians. Suffering is the point. The (typically incorrect) idea is that suffering people will force political change. But again, that has rarely happened. People just end up suffering.
The comment stated it is too late for diplomacy. That means inflicting suffering via outright war or passive actions like sanctions. Both are attacks on innocent civilians.
Ah yes, because telling Netanyahu “please don’t bomb children, that is not really nice” has worked out splendidly so far. Diplomacy without being able to put pressure on is nothing more than kindly asking.
Y’know what is the primary method to apply pressure in diplomacy? Sanctions.
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