People who aren’t the VBNMW crowd saw the writing on the wall for Biden. This debate only helped Trump even tho Trump literally didn’t answer anything. That is Trump’s style all insults or jokes and no substance. Not sure what happens here it is way too late to switch to anyone else. We’re cooked.
I watched about 30 minutes, gotta say Trump was all over the map and not answering questions. Biden was raspy and stuttered, like he does , but he actually answered the questions. Trumps answer about what he would do about the fentanyl crisis was ‘I bought a dog’
I heard quite a few people earlier in the year stating that the plan was for Joe to bow out last minute due to health issue, and announce that Michelle Obama would be the candidate. I know it’s probably not likely, but it’s an exciting thought. Someone like Newsom would be another decent option
It was dumb just going along with Biden as the nominee, hubris and status quo thinking. Now the Democratic party needs to come up with something to energize the electorate. Scaring people with democracy being on the line, while completely true, isn’t gonna do it. Hoping the attacks on reproductive rights will carry them over the finish line is a bad idea. Trying to bring Harris out now into the limelight isn’t gonna work. People are tired and struggling. The youth feel betrayed and themselves are struggling. There is no energy coming from up on top. Dems have always sucked at messaging.
I’m not in a panic. I knew this. Should he have run again? Hell no. I wish he would have had the courage to call it a day.
That being said, I’m fully willing to endure 4 years of Weekend at Bernie’s if it means I won’t have to go through the embarrassment of having the orange moron at the helm.
Are you willing to let Trump win though than have Biden step aside? That is what the DNC should be asking themselves. The polls are way to close for Biden to have that poor of a performance. If Democrats are seriously worried about Trump being the end of Democracy then they would not be okay with Biden being the DNC’s best choice.
While I agree, it’s way too late in the game to change up now. There’s no strong candidate waiting in the wings. It’s not about willing, it’s about alternatives.
He absolutely can be replaced at this stage, and by nearly anyone.
He absolutely can’t be legally replaced unless he agrees to that. And the replacement would automatically be Harris unless she agrees to allow someone else. The DNC charter says that only the voters can select the nominee. Changing that charter this close to an election likely wouldn’t stand up in courts. The only way to replace Biden would be to convince him to step down.
There are so many better options at this point. I can’t help but shake that the two party system is doing exactly what it was designed to do. Make people think that mediocrity is the best we can get if we’re lucky.
You’re free to keep supporting Biden at this point but hopefully when you see all the Democratic news outlets saying the same things tomorrow and this coming week and the polls showing Biden’s support dropping you’ll reconsider
AOC would be a really strong candidate. The right would freak out and she’d end up getting more press coverage than Trump. I imagine she’d make several Republican’s embolisms pop.
Yes, she’s probably the only one with enough name recognition and veracity to take on the orange moron in my opinion. Problem is corporate Democrats wouldn’t back her because she’s too progressive and that goes against their corporate masters.
True… However if Trump gets elected and our government is able to prevent a dictatorship, in 4 years progressives will hopefully realize the DNC needs them more than they need need the DNC.
in 4 years progressives will hopefully realize the DNC needs them more than they need need the DNC.
the progressives already know that the dnc needs them more than they need the dnc as evidenced by dnc surrogates perpetually shaming progressives for not voting for the dnc; i’m guessing there’s a typo in your sentence somewhere, but i’m not sure where.
I think it’s to late to change things up. That’s the problem, everyone told the DNC this was going to happen and yet they all just kept with Biden.
That being said, I don’t think either Trump or Biden are in a state to actually run the country. Their cabinets are going to hold all the power, and I trust Bidens cabinet over Trumps any day.
Any change no matter if is too late or too inconvenient would be a better change for the DNC than to allow Biden at the top position. Seriously, any other DNC politician would be better than Biden even if they changed right now or in the next few months. All you need is some politician who is about 50 years old to fight Trump every day until the election and the orange menace would suffer a heart attack trying to keep up.
This is insane … it’s almost as if the powers that be want Trump to win and the only way they can ensure that is to put him up against an 80 year old competitor because it is the only candidate he could possibly beat.
Any change no matter if is too late or too inconvenient would be a better change for the DNC than to allow Biden at the top position.
It’s not up to the DNC to “allow” candidates or not. The DNC charter says the voters choose the nominee. They literally have no power to change the will of the voters. They could theoretically alter the Dem party charter, but doing so this close to an election would likely not stand up in courts. The only possible way to get a replacement candidate cough Gavin Newsom cough would be for Biden to formally ask his delegates not to select him. And since Harris would be the automatic replacement she would likely have to agree to allow someone else.
It’s not up to the DNC to “allow” candidates or not. The DNC charter says the voters choose the nominee. They literally have no power to change the will of the voters.
The DNC argued in court that they could ignore their bylaws and put their thumb on the scale as much as they wanted. Guess that only applies when they’re fucking over progressives.
I agree. I’ll vote for Biden if I have to, but if Trump wins I’m not blaming RFK Jr like they blamed Bernie and Jill Stein in 2016. I’ll blame them and likely never vote for a majority political party again.
We’ll need to see the polling in about a week but I haven’t seen a performance this bad since Palin. The Democrats may need to go to an open convention.
I’m fully willing to endure 4 years of Weekend at Bernie’s if it means I won’t have to go through the embarrassment of having the orange moron at the helm.
DEAR PLEASE GOD someone turn this into comedic satire before the election!!!
So, we’ve got an old, racist guy who lied through most of his statements and refused to possibly say that he would accept the results of the election vs an old guy with a history of a speech impediment that showed signs of his speech impediment and regularly pointed out the lies spouted off by his convicted felon opponent. Why are the media companies banking Trump again?
Exactly. I guess we are learning that most of our fellow citizens have a hard time with nuance, and all they can do is shit their pants instead of toughen up.
Biden’s performance wasn’t an impediment. It was him fumbling and stuttering over his words, forgetting his debate prep and saying nonsensical things. I absolutely do not want Trump to win, but Biden’s debate performance in reality was poor. Many Democrats don’t want to accept that. It is fine if they want to ignore facts. The truth is the Democrats would be far better off if Kamala or AOC or someone else was running for President, and they are risking way too much despite the facts.
It’s not just a speech impediment, it’s a speech impediment in a fucking 81 year old man who shouldn’t be dealing with a stressful job in politics. Been around many octogenarians? He did great for someone his age.
If he were up against someone in their 30s or 40s, it would be terrible but, against an old racist nazi who can only seem to make complete statements when they are provably false? Well, I’d still prefer someone else but at least he has the balls to actually say the forbidden words of “you’re lying” and he’s the only choice that we’re allowed to have as infuriating as that is.
Trump is almost the same age and he is a liar but he also was quick enough to immediately use Biden’s blunders against him. Pretty much everything Biden said sounded scripted and then he still messed it up. Biden didn’t “look” like the smarter candidate. There is enough misinformation out there that if people go searching they’ll find sources that support Trump’s lies. Trump won for the undecided tonight that watches the debate and uses it to make s decision.
Trump won for the undecided tonight that watches the debate and uses it to make s decision.
Anyone who was “undecided” tonight was going to support Trump anyway, either directly or with a “protest vote”. Basically, to they were either lying to themselves or others and are quite alright with a nazi.
This is factually not true, and there are several people that don’t research every detail but try to make a decision based on intuition and performance… And even if they do research there are a lot of hook and bait misinformation networks that get routinely featured on Google News and other news aggregators. If someone thought Trump sounded like a stronger candidate tonight they may end up researching and seeing news supporting Trump’s version of events.
While I think that Joe’s got some dated views, being 81, if you’re honest, you’ve got to acknowledge that the immigration bill was nothing more than calling the GOP bluff and getting extra fodder for election ads. They knew that the GOP wouldn’t allow it to pass. It’s politics at its most bullshit; playing with human lives for points.
For the bussing, that was fifty, 5 0 years ago and his views have clearly changed. Yes, he has no legitimate place in politics at his age but neither does his opponent, who has been known to admire fascist and authoritarians of yore and the modern day.
A person’s view shouldn’t have to change on racial justice and equality, particular someone who’spart of the Democratic party. Sanders is just as old and he’s always been on the right side of history, it has nothing to do with age.
Biden is still racist and even if his far-right border policy was a gambit that’s really irresponsible, given the GOP could’ve easily just accepted the no-strings attached policy win. People need to stop making excuses for shitty politicians, and need to stop allowing the lesser evil be the enemy of good enough.
A person’s view shouldn’t have to change on racial justice and equality,
So you don’t believe in forgiveness or redemption? People aren’t allowed to ever change and improve themselves and are forever to be judged for every shitty thing they ever do? I dunno. I’d not want to live like that with any amount of self-reflection. I further might be inclined to question the authenticity of your claimed beliefs.
even if his far-right border policy was a gambit that’s really irresponsible, given the GOP could’ve easily just accepted the no-strings attached policy win.
That I do agree with. The seemingly constant use of “pied piper” and similar strategies by major Dems in order to avoid the slightest possibility of leftward movement is infuriating.
So you don’t believe in forgiveness or redemption?
Not for elected representatives, no. We’re not talking about someone’s uncle Randy who grew up in poverty and never went to school or met a black person or w/e. This is an educated person from a well-off background, they don’t have an excuse. There are plenty of other smart, motivated people out there who are fit for office and are morally consistent on these uncomplicated issues like racism.
Anyone who takes 80 years to become slightly less racist than their younger days is not someone I want running for office. Forgive them, give them credit for sorting out their personal prejudices, sure, but they need to do that on their own time, we don’t have time for leaders who are still struggling with the basics.
Biden has always been hawkish on immigration, even under Obama, whether this recent attempt was a ploy or not, it wasn’t a ploy during all the other times in his career he advocated for punishing immigration policy.
Sanders is just as old and he’s always been on the right side of history, it has nothing to do with age.
Sanders is older. And putting a finer point on it, the party was ageist af against him in 2016 when he was only 75. Being a progressive adds 20 years, I guess.
How come when they show old campaign videos of Biden where he’s plagiarizing others his so called stutter/speech impediment doesn’t seem to be there? And I thought the new excuse was that Biden had a cold anyway
…He was younger and the videos, being campaign videos, are edited to show him in the best possible light?
ETA: To be clear, I don’t think that he it anyone else too old to have to worry about the long-term consequences of their actions should be in office. But, he’s the only non-nazi choice available.
I watched it and this wasn’t a stutter. This was a loss of his train of thought, switching topics unexpectedly, and creating needless openings for Trump to talk about things Biden didn’t have a good defense for. To be clear his decision making faculties are obviously intact. But this performance was really really bad. Night and day from 4 years ago.
that was the worst fucking thing i’ve seen on tv in my life. holy shit that was depressing. yet it feels incredibly vindicating seeing every single media outlet openly say ‘that was a disaster, he should probably be out’. that was an absolute failure. rescheduling the debate would look better than that shit.
It was painful to watch. You go in wanting to watch Biden look strong and smart, and he came out looking sort of senile and slow. Trump might have told all lies but he still looked and sounded sharper than Biden and that is what people will use to make a decision.
There was a 12 point swing towards Trump in the before and after CNN flash poll. That’s bad. That’s wake everyone up and reef the sails because an out of season hurricane blew up on us bad.
the take away from social media is fascinating, especially on the lemmyverse: the pejorative stores about biden’s performance are everywhere online and tv, but heavily downvoted on .world while the rest of the lemmyverse is much more closely matched with everything else in the world.
so much wrong here. a 20 year old with disposable income and time to fly across the country cuz of an argument in a free mmo with mediocre reviews and was able to find a stranger’s address??
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