pineapplelover,

Democratic party would crush it if only they replaced Biden with a younger candidate. I’m telling you, even republicans might switch over and vote democrat if this happens.

flying_sheep,
@flying_sheep@lemmy.ml avatar

Lol, have you seen a Republican recently?

Godric,

Yes, have you?? I actually happen to live amongst them, which may sound exotic to some Lemmings.

“I hate Trump, but Joe is a walking corpse” is not an uncommon sentiment.

flying_sheep,
@flying_sheep@lemmy.ml avatar

Are they aware that even an almost-corpse could follow their advisors and therefore end up having an effective presidency? As long as Biden doesn’t start doing random senile shit (and be realistic, he’s far from that)

COASTER1921,

To a lot of these voters it’s not about having a logical cabinet nor even policy. It’s the individual as a character representing our nation, and to them Trump is better spoken than Biden even if what most of he says has little basis in reality.

This is why Obama had such a good time with swing voters, it’s not really about the policies from what I see. I’m shocked no party since 2008 has tried running a younger candidate. I’d love to see someone younger debate Trump. Like Pete Buttigieg for example. Like ya he’s still a career politician, but I suspect he’d do much better at making the insane stuff Trump says sound insane.

lennybird,
@lennybird@lemmy.world avatar

If they haven’t changed their minds yet, then they aren’t going to. It’s time to try someone different.

Besides, you’re not even needing Republican votes. You just need undecided votes and to energize democratic voters who hate both candidates with age being a big factor.

aodhsishaj,

The presidency needs to be reframed. It’s not some position of ultimate power. Presidents have far less control than the general public thinks, or the media would have you believe.

To get anything lasting done you need all three branches working together and with this court, and congress…

SaltySalamander,

I actually happen to live amongst them

I do too, which is why I know that you are wrong.

FlowVoid,

If Biden decided to step down, his delegates are pledged to support Kamala Harris. So it’s either him or her.

Still certain Democrats would crush it without Biden?

yemmly,

Will someone please come out and say what the problem with Kamala Harris is? I see people hinting about it all the time, but I have no idea what it’s all about.

pikmeir,

It’s because she’s a woman. They’re scared.

yemmly,

It’s certainly true that women who rise to the top of national politics get relentlessly, negatively caricatured (Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi). With Kamala Harris it’s different because a lot of the murmuring comes from Democrats and they never say why.

TheLowestStone,
@TheLowestStone@lemmy.world avatar

I have a problem with many of her past decisions but, the same goes for Biden. Both are still a significantly better choice than Trump.

Shyfer,

Is she pro genocide? My only problem with Biden is his age and Israel policy, and I have no idea what hers are.

TheLowestStone,
@TheLowestStone@lemmy.world avatar

Unfortunately, anyone who has any real chance of being president isn’t going to do anything meaningful to stop what is happening in Gaza.

frog_brawler,

Her record as DA is problematic for a lot of people. She was labeling herself as a progressive, but then behaved as a conservative. Fought to keep a lot of people in prison for minor offenses, fought to keep the death penalty, etc. While doing that, she had a book out about criminal justice reform… and went against her own advice. Pretty much a lap-dog for conservative criminal justice policy. Overall, blatantly hypocritical to anyone that was paying attention.

yemmly,

Thanks for explaining.

Blackbeard, (edited )
@Blackbeard@lemmy.world avatar

If Biden decided to step down, his delegates are pledged to support Kamala Harris.

I’ve tried to verify that this is the case and can’t find evidence anywhere. Can you point me to a source? I was under the impression that they’d be expected to turn to her, but that they’re not required to.

Edit: After lengthy back and forth, it finally became clear that this is simply an opinion. User has absolutely no proof.

FlowVoid,

They aren’t required. But Biden/Harris delegates aren’t chosen randomly, they are Democrats who have demonstrated loyalty towards Biden and Harris and have personally pledged to support them.

Blackbeard,
@Blackbeard@lemmy.world avatar

But they’re not “Biden/Harris delegates”. They’re Biden delegates, as he was the only name on the ballot. Are you just saying they’ll go with her out of deference?

FlowVoid, (edited )

Fair point. I think they would absolutely go with Harris. Partly out of deference, partly because she would remain in control of the Biden/Harris $100 million warchest and ground operations org, partly because her name can’t be taken off the general ballot in multiple states, and partly because Democrats need to campaign on women’s rights and it would look awful to pass over a Black woman.

I also think that Newsom/Whitmer/Beshear/Pritzker et al are not interested in replacing Biden. They will inherit chaos, are very likely to lose in the general, and that will be the end of their presidential aspirations.

Blackbeard,
@Blackbeard@lemmy.world avatar

partly because her name can’t be taken off the general ballot in multiple states

Again, where is your proof of this? Ballots haven’t been finalized anywhere in the country, as Biden isn’t even officially the nominee yet. You keep saying these things as if they’re set in stone, but from what I can tell they’re not. Do you have proof that ballots have been printed before the convention, or that states have closed the registration window for running mates before closing the registration window for candidates?

Note: I agree with the rest of what you said, for the most part.

FlowVoid,

As you suggest it’s a regulatory problem. There was a recent kerfuffle involving the Ohio ballot, which was solved by putting Biden/Harris on the ballot before they are officially nominated. So any changes made at the Democratic convention will come too late to change the Ohio ballot.

There was a similar issue in Alabama, but it looks like they just moved their deadline after the convention.

Blackbeard, (edited )
@Blackbeard@lemmy.world avatar

As you suggest it’s a regulatory problem. There was a recent kerfuffle involving the Ohio ballot, which was solved by putting Biden/Harris on the ballot before they are officially nominated. So any changes made at the Democratic convention will come too late to change the Ohio ballot.

…nnnnno. That’s not what’s happening in Ohio. From your article:

President Joe Biden will be formally nominated as the Democratic presidential nominee through a virtual roll call ahead of the party’s official convention in Chicago in August

The Democratic National Convention, where the president would otherwise be formally nominated, comes after Ohio’s ballot deadline of Aug. 7. The party’s convention is scheduled for Aug. 19-22.

I really hate to repeat myself because it seems like you’re engaging sincerely and at least trying to support your argument, but there are currently no ballots that have been formalized in the entire country. Biden and Harris have not been put on the ballot before they’re nominated, they’re being nominated before the ballot access deadline in Ohio. So quite simply, as long as the Democrats nominate any US-born person older than 35, that person’s name will appear on the Ohio ballot. You have it quite literally backwards.

FlowVoid,

Are you supposing that the party could settle on a non-Harris replacement for Biden before their convention??

Getting delegates to agree on someone other Harris in smoke-filled backrooms in Chicago is unwise and unlikely, but at least within the realm of possibility.

Getting them to agree before they’ve even met sounds like pure fiction. And that’s what would be necessary to meet the Aug 7 deadline. Kamala Harris will be on the Ohio ballot no matter what happens in Chicago.

Blackbeard,
@Blackbeard@lemmy.world avatar

So his delegates are not pledged to Harris, they aren’t required to support Harris, her name isn’t on a single ballot in the country, Biden’s name isn’t on a single ballot in the country, and no one has officially been nominated. You’ve offered no proof to the contrary.

Whether you think a change is likely before ballots are finalized was not my question, merely whether or not you had proof that it’s impossible.

FlowVoid,

I think it’s impossible to replace Harris before Aug 7.

Even the staunchest proponents of running Newsom (or whoever) hope to accomplish this in Chicago.

Blackbeard,
@Blackbeard@lemmy.world avatar

You’ve offered no proof that it is, despite my asking several times. From what I can tell that’s just your opinion, which is fine but carries significantly less weight.

cyd,

Oh good, I guess Biden has absolutely nothing to worry about then…

Ensign_Crab,

Democrats will continue to act like he’s gonna coast into office by virtue of not being Trump. They will continue to ignore all warnings from their left. And they will blame the left when he loses. It’s the 2016 playbook all over again.

flying_sheep,
@flying_sheep@lemmy.ml avatar

If he loses. Maybe the complacent non-voters learned something. No thanks to the Ds, but neither Trump nor Biden winning is a done deal

Sam_Bass,

Any lesson they might learn is a one way trip to hell with no way back

Ensign_Crab,

If he loses? What’s he doing to win? Which group of voters is he trying to pick up? Netanyahu can’t vote for him. Republicans won’t vote for him no matter how many of their policies he adopts.

Centrist Democrats alone aren’t enough. No matter how large a majority they think they command.

flying_sheep,
@flying_sheep@lemmy.ml avatar

Leftists who aren’t completely brain-dead will of course vote for his administration.

Ensign_Crab,

Calling people braindead is a great way to win them over.

aodhsishaj,

I don’t think winning you over was their goal.

Ensign_Crab,

I’m not even one of the people they’re talking about, since I intend to vote for Biden.

Eatspancakes84,

I guess it depends on what you mean by Democrats. There were some quite high ranked people openly critical and suggesting replacing him (more than I would expect). Dems are not a singular entity… but the only person with the power to replace the candidate at this point in time is Joe Biden himself. So if he doesn’t step down I do expect most high-ranked Dems to fall in line.

TokenBoomer,

This is not surprising, because everyone knows Latinos are avid golfers. Why wouldn’t they support the candidate with a 6, uh, I meant 8, handicap?

FlexibleToast,

Undecided Latino voters specifically according to the article. I don’t think that should be too surprising based on the lies Trump was spewing about illegal immigration.

elbarto777, (edited )

It’s so stupid that there are “undecided” latino voters at this point. As if it wasn’t enough to know that Trump was a liar when he mentioned that Mexican immigrants were criminals and rapists back then?

foggy,

As a decided Joe Biden voter I am confused but I thank you.

KevonLooney,

But I was told that all Biden’s answers were completely incoherent? You’re telling me that the media is making a big deal out of a few moments in the debate?! That’s never happened before!

foggy,

I’m a staunch Bernie Sanders supporter. I have worked for his team.

I don’t know how else to say this: Joe Biden’s performance last night was a caricature of every negative stereotype the opposition throws at him.

I’m really disheartened that my fellow Democrats don’t see the glaring issues from the debate. Did you watch it? This question might seem inflammatory, but I am genuinely concerned.

I desperately wanted Trump to be frustrated by having his mic muted, but I never expected Biden to become the caricature the GOP was hoping for. Unfortunately, that’s what happened.

Ignoring what just happened is dangerous. It’s this kind of blind dissent that got us Trump in the first place. We’re in trouble. If we ignore it now and end up with Trump again, the blame will be on those who are ignoring the problem right now.

Gradually_Adjusting,
@Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world avatar

We’re basically hooped unless Joe decides to throw in the towel. Just about anyone not psychotic half his age could very easily beat trump. How do we get there?

foggy,

My main concern is that many fellow Democrats aren’t seeing the issues with Biden’s performance. This blind spot is dangerous and reminiscent of how we got Trump in the first place. Ignoring these glaring issues won’t help us move forward. We need to recognize and address these problems now.

Gradually_Adjusting,
@Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world avatar

There’s no way to replace Joe without his consent. Do you have any real ideas how that can be accomplished?

foggy,

Do you have any real ideas…

Sorry, where did I say I was here to solve a problem?

Just pointing it out. Cheers.

Rolder,

At the end of the day, I trust the people around Joe to, at the very least, not maliciously fuck over the country. Can’t say the same about Trump.

At the end of the day, with these two choices, I’ll go for not fucking over the country thank you.

metaldream,

Hardcore dems have always been delusional cultists with zero self-awareness.

foggy,

🙄

Ensign_Crab,

I don’t know how else to say this: Joe Biden’s performance last night was a caricature of every negative stereotype the opposition throws at him.

I was reminded of all the ageist insults that Clinton supporters said about Sanders when he was a spry young 75.

SaltySalamander,

I watched maybe 3 minutes. Turned it on about 35 minutes into it. It was apparent within the first 15 seconds that it was a problem.

Anamnesis,

No man it was legitimately bad. Biden did horrible. I’m terrified that we’re gonna see a significant slip in the polls after that disaster.

corroded,

I don’t consider myself a Republican or a Democrat, although unless things change drastically in American politics, I can’t see myself ever voting Republican by the time I’m dead and gone. With that said, I mentioned to someone yesterday that if I didn’t have the experience of living through Trump’s time in office, this debate would make me seriously consider voting for him.

I really don’t believe that this debate is going to sway many undecided voters toward Biden. If you compare their performance at face value, Trump was unusually well-spoken, and Biden seemed like he belonged in a nursing home. Half of what Trump said was complete bullshit, but how many undecided voters are actually reading articles that show how full of it he really is?

What you have is a person who stated lies as fact and did a decent job of being convincing and a person who was generally truthful but seemed like he “wasn’t all there.” Undecided voters who “don’t follow politics” are going to see this and say “You know, I think I understand why people support Trump.” That’s a very scary prospect.

I don’t dislike Biden, but my personal opinion is that the best thing he could do for the country is step aside and let a different Democrat take the nomination. Geriatrics like Trump and Biden need to retire, do whatever they feel like in their golden years, and let someone else take the reins. A competent politician in his 50s or 60s would absolutely destroy Trump, and that’s exactly what we need right now.

FuglyDuck,
@FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

What you have is a person who stated lies as fact and did a decent job of being convincing and a person who was generally truthful but seemed like he “wasn’t all there.” Undecided voters who “don’t follow politics” are going to see this and say “You know, I think I understand why people support Trump.” That’s a very scary prospect.

to be fair to Biden, he wasn’t all there. I mean, he had a cold, and if that doesn’t fog things up, the medications would.

But, I feel like somebody on his Campaign programing team should have pointed out that if the win-conditions for a successful debate is literally staying alive (see John Olliver rant,) that there wasn’t really much to be gained by it in the first place. it’s not like we don’t know their positions. we’ve already had 4 years of these guys. (well, 3.5 for biden. close enough for politics.)

blaine,

Pure copium.

downpunxx,

what matters

givesomefucks,

Samples size of a focus group on Univision…

It did quote a poll that Biden is only up 1% among Latino voters tho

Fucking insane that it’s that close. But I guess when Biden literally copies trump illegal border policies, it’s hard to get them scared of trump.

CarbonIceDragon,
@CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social avatar

tbf, arent those border policies somewhat popular among some latino voters? Im not defending those policies as they dont align with my own views on the topic, but theres plenty of room for people that managed to get through the immigration system legally to look down of people who havent, or for people born in the country to dislike migration even if their ancestors did it, or for people that want to “pull up the ladder behind them” so to speak. Biden couldnt exactly expect Trump’s border policies to automatically win him that demographic either way.

ShittyBeatlesFCPres,

There’s also the fact that cartels run a lot of border towns. It’s not that border area Latinos are mad at illegal migration so much as they don’t want South Texas to be like Northern Mexico.

Also, it’s a little silly to treat Latinos as a single group. South Florida Cubans are different from everyone, basically. Recent immigrants are different from 2nd or 3rd generation ones. Ted Cruz’s full name is Rafael Edward Cruz and he’s different from people who aren’t bozos.

FuglyDuck,
@FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

Ted Cruz’s full name is Rafael Edward Cruz and he’s different from people.

he’s a reptillian in a skin suit. so he’s basically different from humans. altogether.

mozz,
@mozz@mbin.grits.dev avatar

when Biden literally copies trump illegal border policies

There are three big problems with immigration at the present moment:

  1. There's a huge backlog of asylum / deportation cases which means people stay in custody in racist and oppressive overcrowded prisons
  2. We're rate limiting the people coming into the country (see point #1), which means a lot of asylum seekers who are trying to do it legally wind up waiting for months (maybe years now, IDK) on the other side of the Mexican border, basically just living in a big, dangerous, squalid, crime-ridden open-air field with no facilities for life, and no job, no medical care for anyone no matter how young or old, it's fuckin dangerous
  3. The whole agency in charge of the thing is racist and oppressive

Biden is unable fix the third without an act of God (or, without firing the whole system and then finding 40,000+ people who want to be immigration police who are not racist, so basically an act of God).

Biden is unable to fix the first two problems also, although they do have legislative solutions, because the Republicans block anything he does, even when he tried promising to do some cruel or racist things as a compromise in order to get them to also agree to some badly needed things (mostly, increasing ICE funding so they can at least house the people they have in better conditions, and increasing the number of judges to process cases so people don't wait for a year before their case is heard).

And, any time he tries to do anything about it, e.g. reducing the rate of people allowed to come across the border or increasing funding for ICE, everyone on the left as far as I can tell thinks he's just being cruel on purpose for no reason and gets really mad at him.

So my questions are:

  1. What illegal border policies do you think Biden is copying?
  2. What specific thing do you think he should do, instead of trying to increase the number of judges and the funding for ICE, and compromising with the Republicans to try to get it done when they block him on it?
timbuck2themoon,

They won’t answer. They’re a bad faith fuck trying to get people not to vote for Biden.

mozz,
@mozz@mbin.grits.dev avatar

Oh, I know. I am just stating the message for the rest of the people.

The bad faith folks used to have these epic debates with me back and forth but I think they have mostly stopped doing that and I am heartened to think that maybe they decided that trying to say anything I was saying wasn’t true was an obvious losing battle and they were hurting their cause by even making the attempt.

Melkath,

This message brought to you by the Ministry of Truth.

War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength.

And to add something with more substance than straight eye rolling sarcasm, amazing that the non-english speakers loved his performance.

Lets get one of those translators on the ballot.

downpunxx,

Old Joe Biden in the only politician to ever beat Donald Trump in an election, and he's going to do it again, and that's the fact Jack

Maggoty,

The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

JimSamtanko, (edited )

Tell us again how you’re not MAGA? Nearly everything you post is the same repetitive anti-Biden rhetoric. Yet never offering any realistic suggestions to overcome the problem. Nothing but negativity and pointing out flaws.

That essentially the definition of propaganda.

Ensign_Crab,

“Everyone to my left must be maga!” - centrists who want to discredit anyone to their left and only their left by lying about them.

JimSamtanko,

Says the guy who magically arrives to defend the MAGA bots any time someone so much as looks at them.

Ensign_Crab,

You lied about blocking me, and the only “evidence” you ever have about someone being a “maga bot” is that they don’t agree with you.

JimSamtanko,

Did I?

Or did you not read what I said about blocking you? Maybe go back and reread my words. Then come back here and apologize for accusing me of what seems to be your singular purpose here.

Melkath,

JimSamtanko.

Reminds me of Clem Fandango.

For the time we have left, when I see your name, I will replay the entire Clem Fandango clip in my head. Because JimSamtanko is just about as useful as Clem Fandango.

JimSamtanko,

You have to know that I have no fucking clue what you’re taking about. But then again, you’re probably used to that as you never seem to either.

Melkath,

You have to know that I have no fucking clue

Yes I do. Clem Fandango.

Ensign_Crab,

You will never be owed an apology by anyone.

Yeah, you said that you would block me temporarily and would unblock me at any time. It was horseshit at the time and we both knew it. You never blocked me. Just like when you lied about ignoring me.

You don’t like people pointing out that your baseless accusations have no evidence and no merit. You’re just lying about people who disagree with you.

JimSamtanko, (edited )

Oh I assure you that I blocked you. But it doesn’t matter because from the standpoint of a known troll, (easily verified by your comment history) you can’t be wrong under any circumstance.

I’ll block you whenever I wish so as to put you in a little corner until I feel I have the patience and/or willingness to deal with someone rewriting my words and shouting them back at me. This is seemingly all you can do. So knowing you can’t argue in good faith- I owe you nothing more or less. I’ve tried reasoning with you. You’re showing that you’re seemingly incapable of it.

You’re a troll. (again, verified by your comment history here) And because of this, I will never engage with you on your terms. So just know that when I get bored of you- I’ll block you again.

And again….

And again…

Ensign_Crab,

I stand by my comment history. You do nothing but scream “maga bot” at anyone to your left and only your left. You just want to do so without anyone pointing it out.

Now “block” me again.

JimSamtanko,

K. And you scream gEnoCiDe sUpPorTeR at anyone that even come close to suggesting that Biden isn’t that bad.

And I’ll block you when I think I need to and no sooner.

Ensign_Crab,

K.

Glad you’ve admitted that you lie and call everyone to your left a maga bot.

And you scream gEnoCiDe sUpPorTeR at anyone that even come close to suggesting that Biden isn’t that bad.

Genocide supporters pretend genocide isn’t happening. Genocide supporters act like genocide isn’t a big deal. Genocide supporters consider genocide acceptable. Genocide supporters lose their fucking shit when anyone dares to suggest that Biden should stop sending weapons for Netanyahu to murder Palestinians with. If I see these behaviors, I say what I see.

And I’ll block you when I think I need to and no sooner.

Sure you will. You’ve already lied about blocking me once. You’ve lied about ignoring me as well. You lie about everyone to your left and call them maga bots. You just lie.

JimSamtanko,

And MAGA bots whine when they’re accused of something while simultaneously accusing others of things.

Ensign_Crab,

Yes, everyone is a maga bot. Everyone but you and you alone.

JimSamtanko, (edited )

Oh no my friend. Everyone is a gEnOciDe dEniEr but you and you alone.

I’ve been playing your own game against you kiddo. And your reactions are priceless. You can’t take what you give.

Considering it… trolling a troll.

Ensign_Crab,

I’m not trolling, but you just admitted you are.

JimSamtanko,

We both know you are.

Ensign_Crab,

I’m not and you’re lying about me, like you lie about anyone who doesn’t love genocide like you want them to. When are you gonna pretend to block me?

JimSamtanko, (edited )

Do you see the hypocrisy here bud? You’re upset that I’m accusing you of lying, then accusing me of “loving genocide” which is a lie.

Then antagonizing me to block you. And claiming you’re NOT a troll?

You’ll forgive me if I don’t believe you, right?

Ensign_Crab,

You’re upset that I’m accusing you of lying, then accusing me of “loving genocide” which is a lie.

Read it again. I said you want the people you lie about to love genocide. Though since you’ve repeatedly lied about ignoring me, lied about blocking me, and lied about people to your left being maga bots, I have reason to doubt when you say you don’t love genocide.

Then antagonizing me to block you.

I was wondering because generally when you get tired of calling me a trumpist because I don’t support genocide, you make a big show of ignoring/blocking me only to demonstrate that it’s yet another lie the following day. I’m wondering when you clock out, basically.

JimSamtanko,

I get what you’re trying to do here man, and I’m not falling for it. You’re not going to get me on a defensive to waste my time.

The entire comment chain is there to see that I’m right regarding my accusations of you. And your sad attempts to victimize yourself fall VERY flat When held up against reality, soooloo, I really don’t needled to keep going in circles over this with you. Your comment history and mod logs show you’re a liar and a troll. Mine don’t.

Though I do enjoy watching you try hard. It’s so embarrassing for you.

I love it!

Ensign_Crab,

Your accusations that I’m a maga bot? You have no evidence of anyone being a maga bot.

JimSamtanko,

Love your commitment to the bit. Hilarious!

Ensign_Crab,

You still have no evidence. If you did, you would have presented it instead of being a self-admitted troll.

JimSamtanko,

Cool story! Loving the dedication. Keep at it!

Melkath,

Downvoted for literally an accurate 1984 reference with no other commentary.

Maggoty,

It just seemed to fit so perfectly. Bluster is not going to see the Democrats through this election.

Melkath,

Bluster is all they have left, so let's blow the left half of America's mind and have a Bernie/Khanna ticket.

How rad would that be?

Bet it could beat Trump.

Maggoty,

After Biden gets kicked for age? I don’t think it would fly. We need someone in the goldilocks zone if we’re doing this at all.

Melkath,

So... Khanna?

Maggoty,

He could work, so could Newsom, Whitmer, Pritzker, and Shapiro. Newsom because of his name recognition from taking a defiant stance against DeSantis and the others because they’re governors of key states.

Melkath,

I was gonna respond directly, but then I saw the lineage of this post.

It is literally a hall of fame battle of people I blocked on kbin.social (you included you boomer boot licking fascist with the audacity to have the immortal Johnny Ramone as your profile pic) vs people I loved on kbin.social (who sometimes get a little tied up in the weeds, but are thorough and actually put effort into processing new information).

Low key crushing on you all... and getting my block button fired up for half yall.

SquirtleHermit,

Fun fact, Trump ran for the Reform Party nomination, which eventually went to Pat Buchanan, back in 2000.

TheBigBrother,

Yeah sure!!

downpunxx,

Dark Brandon has seen your comment and is most disappointed, he believes in us, our our country, the other guy wants to wipe his ass with it, again. Easy choice.

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