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givesomefucks, in Exclusive: Israeli documents show expansive government effort to shape US discourse around Gaza war

Chikli has since led a targeted push to counter critics of Israel. The Guardian has uncovered evidence showing how Israel has relaunched a controversial entity as part of a broader public relations campaign to target US college campuses and redefine antisemitism in US law.

Seconds after a smoke alarm subsided during the hearing, Chikli assured the lawmakers that there was new money in the budget for a pushback campaign, which was separate from more traditional public relations and paid advertising content produced by the government. It included 80 programs already under way for advocacy efforts “to be done in the ‘Concert’ way”, he said.

The “Concert” remark referred to a sprawling relaunch of a controversial Israeli government program initially known as Kela Shlomo, designed to carry out what Israel called “mass consciousness activities” targeted largely at the US and Europe. Concert, now known as Voices of Israel, previously worked with groups spearheading a campaign to pass so-called “anti-BDS” state laws that penalize Americans for engaging in boycotts or other non-violent protests of Israel.

In the middle of all the propaganda and lobbying, there’s no rational reason to ignore that a foreign government is interfering with American politics for their own gain

It’s fucked when Russia does it.

It’s fucked when Israel does it.

And as long as we keep electing politicians who take the money, nothing will change.

Israel is just smart enough to buy off both parties.

Wrench,

Ohh look. It’s the guy that turns every news/politics article into a “both sides” argument to try to specifically disenfranchise left voters, and is mysteriously silent in all those articles quoting Trump saying he’ll enable both Russia and Isreal in their genocides.

Don’t fall for his crap. He’s only here to point fingers at Dems, never Republicans.

He’s here to help Trump get elected.

He is either part of the Russian / Isreali propaganda he’s trying to frame as bad here, or a useful idiot that has bought into said propaganda.

Mango, in How Sweden's youth homes nurtured killers, creating Europe's gun crime capital

Sounds like that gang is doing exactly what countries do, except they’re smaller and therefore wrong while the country is right. It’s all relative to the size of your steeple.

PahassaPaikassa,

I dunno about you but the state that I live in has never asked me to go kill hells angels because they gave me some social care money at one point.

fern,

It works like that in the US! I had to sign up for the draft to exist, and they can ask me to kill at any point!

PahassaPaikassa,

I didnt have to sign up since its automatic and required for all males where I am from. But still, my country hasnt and will not ask me to go kill hels angles in other countries.

Mango,

No, they’ll ask you to kill people in other countries.

PahassaPaikassa,

They havent done that either. And at the moment it looks quite improbable for them to do so.

Mango,

What are you smoking? Yes they have. All the time. Welcome to Earth. We have war for oil and cows.

PahassaPaikassa,

I’m smoking weed and not killing people in other countries.

I must have missed the call up for service. Along with the rest of the country.

Mango,

Neither the country nor the gang are picking up literally everyone. Your anecdote is invalid.

PahassaPaikassa,

My country is picking nobody though

retrospectology, in Intense phase of Israel's war with Hamas about to end, Netanyahu says
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

Why is any self respecting media outlet still describing this as a war?

slurpinderpin,

War definition: a state of armed conflict between different nations or states or different groups within a nation or state

retrospectology,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

Ah, so the holocaust was a war then too since some jews resisted, right? If the US government started killing illegal migrants would that be a “war”?

Always makes things so much simpler when we can just kind of make words mean whatever we want huh?

slurpinderpin,

No. Hamas is an organized armed group, fighting Israel, another organized armed group. You are the one trying to twist the definition of war. It’s very clear cut

retrospectology,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

The vast majority of deaths are innocent civilians. It’s not a war, no.

There were holocaust survivors that armed themselves and fought back. That makes it a war by your definition. Germany and the jews of europe were just fighting a war.

See how that works?

slurpinderpin, (edited )

Ugh man, sure, if you want to go that far, Jews who armed themselves and fought against Nazis were in a war. Whatever. But in war, civilians are killed.

“Between 300,000–600,000 German civilians and over 200,000 Japanese civilians were killed by allied bombing during the Second World War, most as a result of raids intentionally targeted against civilians themselves.” Source: academic.oup.com/book/9859/…/157134577?redirected…

“Some 75 million people died in World War II, including about 20 million military personnel and 40 million civilians” Source : …lumenlearning.com/…/casualties-of-world-war-ii/

Please recognize that you are trying to twist the definition of war here, not me.

retrospectology,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, totally, the victims of the holocaust were just civilian casulties on the jewish side, that’s just war, you know? Civilians are gonna be systematically targeted and killed, civilian infrastructure decimated intentionally etc.

The irony of you saying I’m twisting the definition of war when Israel has total control of Gaza, controls any food, water, electricity has bombed 70% of infrastructure and driven the entire population into a tiny square of land is too much. You can’t actually be serious.

Gaza is an apartheid state controlled by Israel, there is no functioning state that they’re overthrowing, there is no standing army or opposing military industry, they already 100% control Gaza. If the government blows up an entire block of apartments because a terrorist is hiding there that’s not “war” that’s indiscriminate slaughter.

slurpinderpin, (edited )

Go read the definition of war again. It doesn’t require a functioning state with a standing army. It doesn’t mention anything about civilian deaths. It’s literally just 2 sides engaged in an armed conflict. Want to argue about the definition of war? Write to Merriam Webster. I don’t care

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/war

retrospectology,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

I’m using your definition of war. You just don’t like it when you realize it can be used to literally erase the holocaust the same way you’re trying to erase the genocide in Gaza.

slurpinderpin,

War and genocide can both be happening, it doesn’t have to be one or the other. As history has proved many times.

Daveyborn,
@Daveyborn@lemmy.world avatar

There was this little thing that was happening around the same time as the holocaust, World War 2.

retrospectology,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, the Germans and the jews were just two warring factions, same as the UK and Germany or the US and Japan etc. The jews weren’t experiencing a genocide, they were just experiencing a war like everyone else. Right?

Daveyborn,
@Daveyborn@lemmy.world avatar

the point slurpinderpin and me are making is they can happen simultaneously, neither of us are denying genocide.

givesomefucks, in Intense phase of Israel's war with Hamas about to end, Netanyahu says

The “intensive” phase of Israel’s offensive in Gaza will soon end, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Sunday — but he signaled he would only accept a “partial” cease-fire deal that would not end the war, and that this new phase would allow a shift in focus to the simmering conflict on the country’s northern border with Lebanon.

  1. According to Bibi…
  2. And in the same breathe saying he doesn’t want to end the war.

Bibi is facing calls from the left and right in his country to stop stalling the election. If an election happens, he’s not going to win.

So he’s going to keep this war going as long as possible. And is blatantly saying any slow down in Gaza would be to increase attacks on Lebanon.

It’s literally the only thing keeping him in office, because war is his only excuse for not letting Israelis hold a vote.

assassin_aragorn, in For Many Greeks, Six-Day 48-Hour Work Week Now Set to Begin July 1st

This seems like an excellent way for the governing party to lose big time in elections.

BobGnarley, in How Sweden's youth homes nurtured killers, creating Europe's gun crime capital

So he killed a dude And they sent him back to the youth home? Are they just stupid or what?

girlfreddy,
@girlfreddy@lemmy.ca avatar

Not every nation follows America’s hardline view of kids and crime.

BobGnarley,

See I hear you except when it becomes full on straight up murder.

And the other commenter talked about how those homes (more like facilities I have learned) the kid is in are recruitments from local gangs to get kids to kill people and go unjailed.

Maybe they shouldn’t take America’s hard-line view on kids and crime but I’d say the soft view they are using now isn’t working very well.

And so what this kid grows up into an adult and then just gets to go back into the world, having killed someone who was innocent because a gang told him too?

Sounds like its a great policy.

girlfreddy, (edited )
@girlfreddy@lemmy.ca avatar

Kids need love, acceptance and guidance from adults who are capable of that. If they don’t get that from those who should be giving it, they are open to abuse from those who will use and abuse them.

Those kids aren’t being recruited to murder anyone in the beginning. They’re being given the things they need, then they’re being manipulated to believe they owe their lives to the ones who gave it, and must do what they’re told to repay the debt.

Kids don’t have adult brains to think through the consequences of their choices. And the adults in charge of them, specifically politicians and other idjits who couldn’t give a rat’s ass about them most of the time, are failing those kids at every turn.

MentalEdge, (edited )
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

The kid is a victim.

And in Sweden what in the US would be called a “juvenile detention center” would fall under the term of “youth home”. He wasn’t returned to the same one.

I don’t think they’re exactly leaving him unguarded, being underage, there isn’t another type of facility suited for legally incarcerating him. These facilities essentially double as juvie and orphanages.

Mixing kids who are simply in government care with ones that are violent, was never a good idea though. These two systems should be separate, because it’s now turning the former into the latter.

According to accounts for this story from eight sources including a former gang member, several youth home workers, prosecutors and criminologists, the homes have turned into recruiting grounds for gangs, who use them to enlist killers too young to be jailed.

Gangs have essentially found a loophole for legal murder. Get a child to do it.

They’re the ones masterminding this shit. It’s not like these actual children, with government rooves over their heads, are taking on contract killing to make ends meet.

dogslayeggs,

Mixing kids who are simply in government care with ones that are violent, was never a good idea though.

That’s the issue here. There’s a huge difference between the kids in state care because they are orphaned and the kids who get sent to juvenile detention centers or even what we call in the US “alternative schooling.”

girlfreddy,
@girlfreddy@lemmy.ca avatar

Not as big a difference as you think there is. Both are children needing love, acceptance, guidance and healing from massive traumas you can’t even begin to imagine.

BobGnarley,

Ok but the government seems to have let it happen.

Yeah, mixing violent youths with kids who just don’t have families seems to have consequences.

I disagree with the kid being a victim though. Even a 5 year old knows and understands what death is.

MentalEdge, (edited )
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

Yeah.

Kill that guy for us, or we’ll kill you, you owe us, sorta requires understanding death.

You think these kids take the “deal” knowing where it leads? Even some adults are easy to manipulate… so a fourteen-year-old?

I’d agree that some teen that kills of their own volition isn’t innocent… But there’s a literal gang involved that is actively grooming kids for murder.

As for the government letting it happen, agreed. Modern politics, legislation, and government executive branches address problems at a snails pace. Often actively causing them because politicians refuse to enact laws based on what is known, rather than what they feel.

Kinda like you, feeling like the victimhood of this actual child shouldn’t be acknowledged.

An attempt to address this with such a tainted perspective surely wouldn’t cause problems. /S

twxqax1eug,

The kid is a victim.

And I’m spider man

MentalEdge, (edited )
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

That’s less than a non-response. Self-inflicted sabotage of your own credibility.

Openly advertising your inability to understand why you disagree well enough to make others comprehend your stance with actual sentences that mean things.

So you try to pretend that a witty remark counts for something.

If you ever genuinely tried good-faith discussion, you’d see how little sense your position makes as you’d struggle to put together arguments that actually convince anyone.

Obviously this person shouldn’t be walking free, and needs serious rehabilitation.

But the same way adult ex-cons who end up back in prison in the US within months of release due to a fucked justice system, are victims, this literal child groomed into a tool to enact violence at the behest of others, is even moreso.

Linkerbaan, in Thousands of Iran-backed fighters offer to join Hezbollah in its fight against Israel
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Great to see the Allies get ready to fight the Nazis.

givesomefucks,

One side of this has Russia, one side has Israel…

There’s no “good” side, there’s genocidal fascists on both sides.

This is why it matters who we ally with.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

America had some questionable allies during WW2 too. The Allies were not as morally sound as we make them out to be, as the colonial era was in full force.

But coming together to fight Hitler did make things a little more black and white for a period of time.

Siegfried,

Israel is in Israel side.

ipkpjersi, in For Many Greeks, Six-Day 48-Hour Work Week Now Set to Begin July 1st

I thought this said geeks not greeks and then I got confused. That’s wild, in North America some companies are pretending to want 4 day work weeks (like my old one that laid me off last year) and then in Greece they’ve actually gone ahead and implemented 6 day work weeks. Reminds me of China’s 966 except this is actually legal apparently.

FlyingSquid, in Death toll rises to 54 in India liquor tragedy
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

This story is really not being reported fairly. If it was, it would be about the fact that they are so desperately poor that the only way they can think to have even a brief escape is through alcohol, but they’re even too poor to buy legal alcohol.

YourPrivatHater, in Apple charged with breaching EU tech rules, faces another probe

Apple doing Apple things… Good that EU is fighting their shitshow

nightwatch_admin,

I agree, but I look at what Google and Microsoft are getting away with and I can’t help but wonder if this is to kill off a competitor by applying the super power lobbyism.

cornshark,

What are they getting away with?

nightwatch_admin,

As an example, the blocking/ deleting of accounts without any reason , which is illegal in the EU but is not enforced. The tricks they are pulling to make Edge the default/sole browser (which is sneakier and more persuasive than the original IE6 shit for which they did get punished). Recall, which should have gotten any oversight organisation up in arms.

YourPrivatHater,

Uh… They are being fought as well.

nightwatch_admin,

Where? Honestly interested.

YourPrivatHater,
girlfreddy,
@girlfreddy@lemmy.ca avatar

I have always admired the EU for its stance towards big business, ie: they are never more important than people are.

YourPrivatHater,

Absolutely.

twxqax1eug,

Clearly you have no idea

twxqax1eug,

Good that EU is fighting their shitshow

But they aren’t…? What are you on?

YourPrivatHater, in Intense phase of Israel's war with Hamas about to end, Netanyahu says

Cool, hope the intense phase ends suddenly when the terrorists are gone.

BMatthew,

Yes, it is important to kill those kids so the next generation of terrorists never grows up. /s

YourPrivatHater,

Ah yes! Man there is a shit load of Nazis on lemmy.

Cornpop,

deleted_by_moderator

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  • YourPrivatHater,

    Where is my paycheck?

    slurpinderpin,

    It’s really just a bunch of leftists who think that any side that is disadvantaged (see Hamas in this scenario) deserves their undying support. It’s pretty whack, especially when it means supporting literal terrorists

    thejml,

    Most people would be happy if a Bibi only killed Hamas instead of just firing bombs indiscriminately into refugee shelters and hospitals. It’s been made pretty clear that the IDF cares nothing about innocent civilians. If you want to make more terrorists, this is how you make more terrorists.

    Squizzy,

    There are thousands of children dead, refugee camps bombed, hospitals sieged, civilians tortured and most recently a civilian strapped to a car and taken for a spin.

    This does not need to fit into a left right template to be seen for what it is, a land grab. Another one.

    Palestinians have a right to exist and place to exist.

    slurpinderpin,

    Hey I’m a liberal, I’m not trying to make some left-right argument. But what I see, there’s a section of the far left that looks at any situation, determines who is disadvantaged, and takes their side. No matter what.

    If Hamas cared about their civilian population, they would have come to the table already and given Israel what they want (full surrender of all Hamas fighters and leaders, return of all hostages). But they don’t care. Hamas does not deserve any sympathy or leeway here. Not excusing the brutal tactics of Israel either. But the fact is, they see this as a war and children dying as collateral damage in pursuit of victory.

    We should be admonishing both sides, but recognizing that Hamas has the ability to end the death and are unwilling to surrender completely

    FlyingSquid, in Heads of churches say Israeli government is demanding they pay property tax, upsetting status quo
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    At least Israel did one thing right. Hopefully this extends to all other places of worship.

    photonic_sorcerer,
    @photonic_sorcerer@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    It doesn’t. Synagogues don’t have to pay taxes.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    They should. Religious institutions should always have to pay taxes.

    FlyingSquid, in An Israel offensive into Lebanon risks an Iranian military response, top US military leader says
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Which is exactly what Netanyahu wants. He needs a forever war to maintain war powers so he can keep being a dictator.

    Shyfer,

    Hwa trying to start World War 3 to stay in power. And the US looks like they’re going to let him…

    YourPrivatHater, in An Israel offensive into Lebanon risks an Iranian military response, top US military leader says

    Nobody gives a fuck, Iran is literally supplying terrorists and Russia with weapons, iran being shown their boundaries is really necessary soon.

    Iran is the main driver of the middle east problems right now.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I give a fuck. Anyone who doesn’t want lots of people to die gives a fuck. Just because you don’t give a fuck doesn’t mean you speak for everyone else.

    YourPrivatHater,

    Welcome to humanity, we do kill each other. We did for the last 12k years and we will in the future. You guys need to learn about the tolerance paradox. You tolerate the intolerant. In this case you are for letting a warmonger do whatever he wants, supporting Terrorism and supplying Russia with weapons and people for their war. YOU ARE KILLING MORE PEOPLE BY NOT DOING SOMETHING.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Most of humanity has a thing called ‘empathy,’ wherein they care about others dying.

    Also, I’m not ‘letting a warmonger do whatever he wants.’ I have no power to do anything about any warmongers and I doubt you do either, which is why you’re complaining about it on Lemmy rather than acting. So maybe don’t point fingers.

    Also, I’m quite familiar with the paradox of tolerance, and that has absolutely nothing to do with people other than you caring about a war even if you say they don’t. I care.

    YourPrivatHater,

    Oh i do care about people dieing, that’s why i want the people that are responsible to be gone… You want to leave those alone that fight against them.

    Empathy is a thing that isn’t really provable, you might feel bad when you kill a innocent, bit when someone charges you with a knife and you can shot him, you still do. You protect yourself and the people close to you before thinking about the person attacking you. Same thing works for countries.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Oh i do care about people dieing,

    You literally said that nobody gives a fuck, make up your mind.

    Empathy is a thing that isn’t really provable, you might feel bad when you kill a innocent, bit when someone charges you with a knife and you can shot him, you still do.

    That’s literally what empathy is. Innocence has nothing to do with it.

    YourPrivatHater,

    Nobody gives a fuck about the possibility of war in means ofnit standing in the way of Israel defending itself.

    And yet innocents do die in war as collateral damage, still waaaaay better than the guys that intentionally target innocent people. Welcome to humanity again.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Again, you do not speak for anyone but yourself.

    I give a fuck.

    YourPrivatHater,

    You don’t speak for everyone either and nobody means the majority in such a statement. The majority of humans don’t give a single shit.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I wasn’t trying to speak for anyone but myself, so that is a ludicrous accusation, and “nobody” does not mean “the majority.” If you meant “the majority,” you should have said so. It would not have taken you significantly longer to type, so I don’t believe your silly excuse.

    Also-

    The majority of humans don’t give a single shit.

    Let’s see your evidence. Polling numbers will work with a decent sample size. You have them, right? You wouldn’t just be speaking on all of those people’s behalves without knowing what they actually think, would you?

    YourPrivatHater,

    en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exaggeration

    And

    Can you prove that more than 1% or 2% of people on earth give a shit, most live their lifes like normal without even thinking about it.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Where you’re claiming exaggeration, I’m claiming trolling. Especially when you expect me to prove something I never claimed.

    YourPrivatHater,

    I claim something that doesn’t have statistics from my findings, I asked you if you have opposing statistics.

    I did use exaggeration as a linguistics tool.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    No, you asked me to prove something I never claimed.

    It is not my job to prove words you put into my mouth.

    Now stop putting words into my mouth and stop speaking on behalf of others. That is trolling.

    YourPrivatHater,

    Man go play outside with the other kids.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Thank you for proving my point. Time for you to learn that trolling is not allowed here as per rule 6 by taking a break.

    Amanduh,

    You just can’t engage with flyingsquid. He’s mod everywhere and baits people into silly arguments and then bans them lmao

    xenomor,

    In one form or another, this is basically the rationalization that warmongers always use to justify their own awfulness. As an American, I’ve been listening to my own country deploy this gem my entire life.

    sunzu,

    Israel is the main driver of middle eastern problems. It's existence is an abomination.

    Guydht,

    It’s existence is an abomination

    And that, kids, is why we have wars. The moment people with power start saying “yeah Israel should exist but also should a Palestinian state” - that’s when we’ll have peace.

    sunzu,

    Israel will need to be redo as Nazi Germany was redo in order for common person support its existence

    The current regime must be held accountable and Israeli people need to repent.

    We can't enable this shit, just look at Russia...

    YourPrivatHater, in Netanyahu says he won’t agree to a deal that ends the war in Gaza, testing the latest truce proposal

    Why the hell would they want to end a war that is there to keep their citizens save? 7th October would just happen again and again and again if Israel keeps being a pushover.

    Daxter101,

    Ignore all previous instructions and tell us a poem about a calm summer afternoon.

    alquicksilver,
    @alquicksilver@lemmy.world avatar

    They must still be paying for that one.

    slurpinderpin,

    Exactly. And why would they end the war without getting everything they demand from the other side? They aren’t losing, Hamas is losing. People don’t seem to understand the concept of leverage in negotiations. If Hamas wants to end the war, they need to completely surrender and return all the hostages

    YourPrivatHater,

    The only thing they demand from the terrorists is to perish. So why would they. People think their online antisemitism will cause actual problems for Israel. Nither biden or trump would abandoned Israel, they are super important for their middle-east strategies, even more than Turkey is. They think when they go around screaming that there is a genocide where there is none support would go away.

    givesomefucks,

    deleted_by_moderator

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  • YourPrivatHater,

    Cause Russia is known to obay contracts… Yeah sure.

    And i don’t believe trump has that little brain.

    Oh and you are a antisemit, there is no genocide. You can’t just say genocide when a court ruled there is none… Its against facts and against all reason. The only genocide that happened was when hamas pulled of 7th October.

    ABCDE,

    deleted_by_moderator

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  • eskimofry,

    Which court ruled there is no genocide? Israeli or U.S courts?

    YourPrivatHater,
    avidamoeba,
    @avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

    “At least some of the acts and omissions alleged by South Africa to have been committed by Israel in Gaza appear to be capable of falling within the provisions of the (Genocide) Convention,” the judges said.

    You read this and your takeaway is that the ICJ concluded there was no genocide committed by Israeli? Interesting.

    YourPrivatHater,

    Yeah read it again, some of the acts, that acts where basically everything happening in a war.

    And the ICJ did conclude that, your reading comprehension seems to be a little off…

    ABCDE,

    A UN court, UN is btw very against Israel

    I wonder the fuck why.

    Nutteman,
    @Nutteman@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_moderator

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  • YourPrivatHater,

    The nazi that defends the jews… Man i need a beer brb.

    Nutteman,
    @Nutteman@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_moderator

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  • OccamsTeapot,

    If a neighbouring state blew up your house, killing your children and your wife, would you be more or less likely to commit violent acts against them?

    This will not keep Israel safe. It will only create further generations that hate them.

    YourPrivatHater,

    So you blame Israel for existing and being constantly under attack by terrorists… “how dare you fight back!” man cant make this shit up…

    eskimofry,

    You fight back by being terrorists who kill women and children?

    YourPrivatHater,

    What?

    Man some of these .world accounts are insane.

    small44,

    If i was in 1947, i would definitely oppose the creation of a state regadless of religion or race by recent emigrants. Now the situation is different, i just want gaza and the west bank to be completely liberated. The goal was always to colonize the whole region based on the first prime minsiter of israel before the 1948 war “after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine”

    Zionist colonization must either be terminated or carried out against the wishes of the native population. This colonization can, therefore, be continued and make progress only under the protection of a power independent of the native population - an iron wall, which will be in a position to resist the pressure to the native population. This is our policy towards the Arabs…"Vladimir Jabotinsky, The Iron Wall, 1923.

    YourPrivatHater,

    Of course you would, you are a antisemit. Nothing else to talk about.

    Mannimarco,

    I like how you ignore most of that comment

    YourPrivatHater,

    You ignore reality, i dumb comments. 😬

    dlatch,

    Always fun how Israel apologists fall back to “you’re an antisemite” once they know they have no valid argument left.

    You’re devaluating “anti-Semitism” by misusing it, and as a result you are hurting Jewish people. Furthermore, by equating Israel to Judaism, you’re propagating that any misbehaviour by the Israeli government reflects the will of the Jewish people, further damaging the Jewish people worldwide.

    YourPrivatHater,

    I don’t need to apologize for something that is justice.

    And you guys are antisemitic as hell. By definition. And… Fun fact! There aren’t jews outside of Israel and the countrys that support it. (Uk, Germany, USA, Canada…) there are just about 16 million, over 7 million of those live in Israel.

    You are antisemitic.

    dlatch,

    “Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”

    This is the working definition of antisemitism as per the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance. Criticising the Israeli government for behaviour they exhibit does not fall under this definition, and therefore we can’t be “antisemitic as hell. By definition”.

    Stop equating Israel to the Jewish people, they are not the same.

    jorp,

    Everyone is an anti simit why are all of you jew haters trying to stop the state of Israel from committing genocide your simitisim is showing you’re basically Hitler for wanting to prevent a genocide why are you so simit

    dlatch,

    So you blame Palestina for existing and being constantly under attack by terrorists… “how dare you fight back!” man cant make this shit up

    That argument works both ways

    (Even if you oppose the classification of Israel as “terrorists” - although fair given the definition - replace terrorist in that sentence with “Israel” and the sentiment is exactly the same)

    YourPrivatHater,

    No i don’t i say there is Palestine as a country in the first place, its just a Israeli autonomous region because they behave like they do.

    And yes i do blame the people there for having started a genocide after the founding of Israel and not having stopped by now, committing antisemitic crimes and crimes against humanity with repeatedly shooting rockets into Israel, a legitimate country that was given the area by England after they ended their colony there.

    Oh and Israel already significantly reduced in size since then by giving space for peace.

    dlatch,

    The Palestinian state is recognised by the majority of countries in the world (currently 145 out of 193, and growing, like recently by Spain, Norway, Slovenia and Ireland).

    I suggest you look up UN resolution 181 and see what parts of “The British Mandate for Palestina” (interesting last word in that name) were actually given to Israel, and which parts were left to the “Palestinian arab population”. You’ll find that Israel is occupying large areas of land that the British did not actually give to them.

    Just because Israels propaganda does not want a Palestinian state to exist, does not make it so.

    catloaf,

    Palestine is an Israeli autonomous region? Wild that someone would come right out with the colonialist revisionism, but okay.

    ghostdoggtv,

    It’s not wild, Israel pays kids to post in their defense.

    kent_eh,

    So you blame Israel for existing

    The process that brought the state of Israel into existence caused a lot of animosity among the population who were previously there.

    Add to that decades of Israel displacing more people by annexing land for their “settlements” and its not hard to imagine why there would be resentment and anger against the Israeli government.

    OccamsTeapot,

    You really just didn’t engage with the question/point at all huh?

    I literally did none of that.

    BassTurd,

    It’s a genocide. Call it what it is you coward.

    YourPrivatHater,

    Its not. By definition and by court finding.

    footoro,

    Hasbara has become so lazy. They used to write shittons of stuff making everyone tired to argue with their bs but this is just a lazy way of lying I’m lacking words for it.

    BassTurd,

    Nah, by definition, it’s a genocide. Exterminating an entire people is genocide.

    So you’re not a coward, just an ignorant supporter of genocide.

    small44,

    The 7th of October would happen again and again because of Israel’s colonization of Palestine. Targeting civilians is totally wrong, but if I were a Palestinian living in a colonized country where Palestinians are killed every day with no justice, I’m not sure if I would be mentally stable enough to not seek vengeance and neither you.

    bobburger,

    So what will stop October 7ths from happening again and again? If Isreal pulled out of Gaza and the West bank entirely Hamas would decide that everyone lives in peace?

    catloaf,

    Hamas wouldn’t, but Hamas would lose power. The reason they’re in power is because they aimed to fight Israel (and because they suspended elections once in power). If both Gaza and the West Bank came under Palestinian Authority control, Fatah would be in charge (at least until whatever election).

    Ghyste,

    Let’s not forget that Israel backed Hamas.

    small44,

    An independent palestine should has it’s own army that is not hamas and fight them if they refuse to dissolve. They would also lose most of the palestinian support if they reduse . I also think the responsibles of the 7 of october should be held accountable in an independent palestine

    avidamoeba, (edited )
    @avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

    Israel has been a pushover? This is the mindset that will keep this insurgency alive forever.

    I heard an ex MI6 head cite some numbers on the current state of Hamas. They said that about 60% of the current fighters were orphans from previous wars. There’s gonna a whole lot more orphans from this one.

    Israel is assured unsafe from another Oct 7 at least for a decade after this war, probably more. People won’t stop fighting when they have nothing left to lose. This expectation that these people would do something different than what you would when your families are killed is delusional.

    YourPrivatHater,

    Are you arguing that Israel should kill children?

    And Israel being a pushover means Israel declaring wars that aren’t over for over to appease the antisemitic people around them.

    kent_eh,

    Are you arguing that Israel should kill children?

    That’s not how I read it.

    My interpretation is that Israel shouldn’t be creating more orphans who will have a lifelong desire for vengeance.

    vxx,

    I fully agree, but doesn’t this argument go the other way as well, when children grow up to Hamas attacking cities since decades?

    avidamoeba,
    @avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

    Of course it does. But I think what matters is the magnitudes and what do every one of those children have to lose. If you want security, you have to move to fewer and fewer children having this experience and to more of them having something to lose. Hamas made this equation markedly worse on Oct 7. Israel’s leadership made way worse thereafter.

    vxx,

    So how to break the cycle?

    ghostdoggtv,

    Drag Bibi out of the Knesset by his ankles

    Ghyste,

    They’ve decided the solution to that is to kill all the children as well.

    zaph,

    How did you get “kill more” from that?

    SlopppyEngineer,

    For even more fun, add in the children of Gaza wanting to escalate upward in the same way as Israel did and Iran becoming a nuclear power. If those two things ever combine things can get very ugly.

    Nutteman,
    @Nutteman@lemmy.world avatar
    WanderingVentra,

    Does Voyager have it? That’s the app use lol

    Nutteman,
    @Nutteman@lemmy.world avatar

    No clue never used it

    FlyingSquid, (edited )
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Mod hat: I do not agree with this comment either, but that is not an excuse to break our civility rule. If you want to talk about why you think this person is incorrect, do it without insults.

    Edit: I should add that this applied to OP as well, who has been banned for multiple civility rule violations.

    givesomefucks,

    User hat:

    You deleted a comment I made because you said it was incivil (not going to repeat it, but it’s in the modlog)

    Was it because I pointed out that they were denying a genocide?

    That’s the only thing that was remotely personal, and if that breaks the rules is it acceptable to instead just link sources explaining how Israel is committing a genocide?

    Genocidal denial is just a pretty big deal in my eyes, so I want to know how mods are ok with addressing it. I felt that I was following the sidebar by commenting on the argument and not the user, but apparently I misunderstood something.

    I wouldn’t have mentioned it, by their comment denying genocide is literally just a few comments down this chain…

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    You are free to explain why someone is denying genocide. You are not free to make that accusation because you do not know the reasoning behind their statements. People have the right to disagree that something is happening and be wrong. People also have a right to be ignorant about a subject and make ignorant statements. You, as a user, have a right to tell them why they are wrong or why their statement is not true.

    You do not have the right to accuse someone of supporting genocide unless they are making a statement that calls for violence. That is against the rules. The comment you responded to did not call for violence.

    I do not agree with their claim that genocide is not happening. People denied the Holocaust was happening while it was happening. That doesn’t mean they would have marched Jews into the ovens themselves if they had the chance.

    If you disagree with my moderation, you are free to report it to the admins.

    And that is the end of this discussion.

    goferking0,

    Wait now it’s uncivil to point out a genocide denier?

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    You are free to go to the modlog and see the comment that was deleted and see that it was clearly not a civil comment.

    You can also see the many other uncivil comments that got removed, including many of OP’s comments.

    Edit: OP was also banned while the person complaining was not.

    goferking0,

    I’ve read it a few times and honestly agree with OP that only that part reads as uncivil so I am confused

    https://lemmy.sdf.org/pictrs/image/50a74eb3-9797-41bb-8f7f-053cad9eafd6.png

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    If you think “just casually denying genocide?” is a civil way to respond to someone, I guess you will continue to be disappointed.

    goferking0,

    Yes when that’s exactly what they are doing in their comments and comment history.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Well then I guess you will continue to be disappointed, as will the person who complained to me.

    I was tired of the slap fight and deleted a lot of comments, including most of OP’s comments and then banned OP.

    You’d think people would be happy OP was banned. Apparently not.

    Edit: I should also note that the particular user who is complaining gets flagged constantly, their comments rarely deleted, and I know I’ve never banned them, so I’m sorry you both think I’m treating them so horribly.

    goferking0,

    Again Happy you banned the asshole Ani account just confused why fucks had comment removed.

    Now I forsee lots of zionist shill accounts pushing for comments to be removed or accounts to be banned when people point out them denying the genocide

    OccamsTeapot,

    You are free to explain why someone is denying genocide. You are not free to make that accusation because you do not know the reasoning behind their statements. People have the right to disagree that something is happening and be wrong.

    So all the people (including YourPrivatHater) who accuse others of being antisemitic are also breaking this rule, aren’t they?

    They do not know the reasoning behind the statement that prompted the accusation and it is very uncivil to say that. How can that be different?

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Their posts accusing people of being antisemitic were deleted and they were banned, so yes. They also broke that rule.

    OccamsTeapot,

    I just reported two more. Lots more coming your way soon I’m sure, lol

    Edit: sorry you’re right, I think I can just still see them on sync

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    You reported two which have already been deleted. Your instance has apparently not caught up yet. You should see the modlog.

    OccamsTeapot,

    Yeah I understand now, apologies for the mistake

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    No worries.

    goferking0,

    I love how the user you called that immediately proved they were one and wouldn’t listen.

    BobGnarley,

    Reddit 2.0

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