In fact they are not only purposely funding the genocide, they are actively ignoring majority of people against it, even surpassing the senate just to be sure they can send the money to Israel quickly
Actually since TikTok is where most of the popular support for Palestine is from and probably why after decades of this genocide it finally became well-known, they are trying to shut it down, since China won’t censor it for them. Classic fascist moves from the government.
Did we forget about the Uighur’s? China isn’t even TRYING to hide that, but, yeah. Except that they ban any mention of it within their borders.
Mind you, I’m not trying to take away from what the US is and has done, but, currently, the only super power locked in a provable genocide, is china. Simple as that. The US is so fucking sideways that we’re simultaneously bringing food into Gaza while also supporting its destruction. Really nothing new there, money goes up. But, different than state sponsored genocide. Fuck, I hate that that’s a buzzword.
the only super power locked in a provable genocide, is china This statement is absolutely false. Isreal genocide is almost exlusively funded by the US.
we’re simultaneously bringing food into Gaza while also supporting its destruction Small amounts of food into gaza is PR and changes nothing in the big picture. There is a big difference in amount of money sent for weapons to Isreal and food to Gaza. You can send few trucks of food, get pirctures, run it in media, and then silently give billions for weapons. There is no two sides of this, US government is fully running a genocide in Gaza with full knowledge and intent. There is nothing that Chinese government does that US and Russia government don’t do as well. There is only difference in the media coverege of these things in each of the countries and is the result of difference in opinion between people who are exposed to that media.
Is Russia doing a race thing? I thought it was an imperialism thing, needed access to Crimea for the black sea and needs to get that pesky foreign government out of the way to ensure that access
Russia has killed over 30000 civilians, they have abducted 20000 ukrainian children and assigned them to Russian families, they have destroyed Ukrainian museums, churches, and art. It’s just as much of a genocide.
The Ukrainian thing is more of a cultural genocide with Putin having a plan on “integrating” all current Ukrainians into Russian society, but it checks out, because “integration” means “throwing away their own culture for the holy Mother Russia”.
So there’s an app that’s operated out of an authoritarian country that’s spewing propaganda from a terrorist organization that’s making you hate your own democratic government.
You can’t understand why people might have some concerns over this if Tik Tok is your only source of information. And that only adds to the concerns over Tik Tok.
How angry are is the Tik Tok crowd over how China treats the Uighurs? It’s all ok as long as you don’t witness it on Tik Tok, right?
To answer your question just about as angry as any other major social media is about it these days? Right now the sentiment on TikTok is very strongly anti Isreal and outrage over the current genocide. I don’t know why you just assume they’re all over there praising China or whatever. China doesn’t come up there any more than here or other social media. China has their own version of the app where I assume their own censorship is applied.
Unless you want to pretend that lemmy or other social media is actively discussing the Uyghurs right now I don’t think this is a very valid point. You’re just using their suffering to feel superior when you probably haven’t even thought about them in who knows how long before now. You can search for them in TikTok and there are plenty of videos criticizing China about it.
It’s not hard to be informed and it’s incredibly hypocritical of you when you couldn’t even be bothered to fact check your own assumptions.
Yeah all social media sucks. They’re all run by psychopaths. But a psychopath will do what’s in their own best interests and therefore don’t want to see the country they live in country brought down. You don’t shit where you eat.
So which country do the psychos making the TikTok algorithms live in?
They have no incentive to ensure their algorithms don’t cause political destabilization in the US or other western countries. In fact there may be incentives going the other way.
Unless you want to pretend that lemmy or other social media is actively discussing the Uyghurs right now I don’t think this is a very valid point.
If you understand anything about the internet you know there’s too much information for a person to see everything. Which means that you don’t have to explicitly remove content (though the Chinese government does a lot of that too) you just need to tweak the algorithm to so that no one sees it. Generally someone in the west searching for Uyghurs is likely to want to find out about how the Chinese government is mistreating them. Yet TikTok’s algorithm conveniently de-prioritizes that kind of content.
It’s not hard to be informed and it’s incredibly hypocritical of you when you couldn’t even be bothered to fact check your own assumptions.
We’re starting to see a lot of young people have a similar level of distrust in news media to the MAGA crowd. Again it’s not purely about having access to information on the internet, it’s whether people will actually look at that information. If you’ve been conditioned to think that everyone is wrong if they disagree with the people you’ve formed unhealthy parasocial relationships with, then it’s a serious problem. Especially since TikTok targets a very young demographic who are susceptible to these parasocial relationships.
The fact that you would compare the “young people” fed up with the ridiculous state of our news media to maga just shows me that you’re out of touch. You can’t just google this stuff or do a quick search on tiktok and magically know what you’re talking about. It’s so egotistical that you wrote all of that and you have clearly not spent a single solitary second experiencing most of the things your opinions are based on.
I’m not “young people” and I think you’d have to be willfully ignorant to not see where they’re coming from in regards to the sorry state of our news media.
Lately if someone says they think the media is controlled by the Jews, I can’t be sure if I’m talking to a MAGA type or a kid that’s spent too much time on TikTok. Only real distinction is the TikTok crowd will tend to use the word “Zionist” while the MAGAs will use the word “Globalist” but it’s ultimately the same antisemitic narrative.
My discussions with TikTokers and MAGAs have the exact same form. Basically it’s like trying to deprogram someone that’s been indoctrinated into a cult. The narrative that makes them feel righteous anger is more important than reality. Someone that’s addicted to righteous anger will reject any information that doesn’t conform to the narrative that keeps them angry.
Yeah it might hurt to hear that you’re just a susceptible to the same kinds of narratives the MAGAs fall prey to. You’re human just as they are, and emotional manipulation on social media is commonplace. You may be angry about different things than the MAGAs are angry about, but it’s the exact same pattern.
Everyone that’s addicted to righteous anger will say the same thing: “I’m differnet from the other angry people because what I’m angry about is true, I don’t care what the mainstream media is saying!” The behavior of people getting their news from TikTok isn’t really different from the behaviour of boomers that spread around racist memes on facebook. Only the target of their anger is different.
Zionist and Jewish are not the same thing, they’re not even euphemism like (((globalist))). There are Jewish people protesting against Zionism, and Christian people fighting hard for it. It’s not the same thing and no leftist thinks it is. Every now and then some Nazi tries to conflate them, and leftists do need to see it and shut it down, but that’s a different issue.
Yeah and in the past Cosmopolitan Jew didn’t mean all Jews. That is until the mask was dropped.
Zionist Jew is the same sort of thing. Many people won’t go along with full on antisemitism so antisemites will trick people by saying it’s not all Jews they’re against.
The mask is starting to drop on this movement too. We’re seeing Jewish communities, Jewish Hospitals, and Synagogues being targeted be the “Free Palestine” movement now. Not something you’ll hear about on TikTok.
Uh, this is embarrassing but it’s actually operated out of Singapore. The company that actually runs TikTok is owned by a Company with it’s headquarters in China.
Parent company is operated out of China, actually company is operated out of Singapore, US, Europe.
Spewing propaganda from a terrorist organization
You referring to Hamas? They barely have Internet access, and they certainly don’t get any special treatment on the app. The people criticizing Israel are not terrorists or terrorist sympathizers, and mislabeling them as such doesn’t do you any favors. And TikTok has been allegedly suppressing any videos talking about that subject.
Making you hate your own government
Wrong. The only people making me hate my government is my government. I actually realized that Republicans pushed me left, but it was mostly the left that pushed me so far left that I want my guns back.
The TikTok crowd
You don’t understand how many people are on the app and their demographics do you?
Parent company is operated out of China, actually company is operated out of Singapore, US, Europe.
Where do they make decisions about the algorithm that decides what you’re seeing on TikTok? That’s what’s relevant here.
Also Huawei played similar games, but we later found out how connected it was basically just a branch of the Chinese government. If you believe the shell company shenanigans, it’s probably because you’ve spent a lot of time on TikTok.
You referring to Hamas? They barely have Internet access, and they certainly don’t get any special treatment on the app.
I’m pretty sure the billionaire leaders of Hamas living in palaces in Qatar have internet access. Did Tik Tok not tell you that there are literal billionaires that are leaders of Hamas? Loses some of the appeal when you realize it isn’t some rag tag group of freedom fighters but actually a fascist movement that wants to restore the ethnic makeup of a region to how it was in old maps. Something to think about when you see people cosplaying as Hamas at the protests.
And TikTok has been allegedly suppressing any videos talking about that subject.
Did you hear this on TikTok?
Wrong. The only people making me hate my government is my government. I actually realized that Republicans pushed me left, but it was mostly the left that pushed me so far left that I want my guns back.
You don’t even have a cohesive concept of any kind of politics, other than hating your own government. Where did that come from? You obviously don’t put a lot of thought into political issues if you swing from one party to the next and you admit the only consistency you have is a hatred of your own government. You’ve just proven my point about TikTok influencing you into hating your government.
You don’t understand how many people are on the app and their demographics do you?
Somewhere between 150 to 170 million Americans get their news from TikTok. Do you think that if there’s more people getting news from a source where the relevant news stories could be decided by an authoritarian country somehow makes it less of a concern?
We know a lot of people use TikTok, and we know that ultimately authoritarians decide what is shown to people on that site. We know that people on TikTok are being fed disinformation, we know that people are being pushed towards being sympathetic towards terrorist movements. It has all of the signs of a campaign to destabilize western countries. But maybe TikTok has influenced you towards wanting to destroy your own country.
You fundamentally misunderstood several of my points and I’m assuming it was intentional.
You don’t know who makes decisions on algorithms, so you’re speculating without evidence.
I’m not surprised Hamas leaders are rich, they’ve been funded by Israel. Also, good job proving my point that you see any criticism of Israel as Hamas sympathy. That’s like assuming every Democrat that criticizes Biden is a secret Republican. That’s delusional and undermines your argument.
TikTok censorship has been reported outside of TikTok. Just like other social media. Why even argue on that point? That’s something you should latch onto that we actually agree on.
I don’t swing from one party to the next. I have moved further and further left BECAUSE of my government. You intentionally missed my point again. I have an excellent understanding of politics and that’s WHY I hate the government. TikTok is separate from that entirely. I hate the Chinese government, and the Russian government, and most governments tbh. And we could spend hours discussing my politics, but that’s just distracting from my very obvious point.
But maybe TikTok has influenced you towards wanting to destroy your own country.
Never seen a straw man so fragile. You don’t know many of the things you claim to know, especially my motivations. But I can guess at your pro Israel intentions
I’m not surprised Hamas leaders are rich, they’ve been funded by Israel. Also, good job proving my point that you see any criticism of Israel as Hamas sympathy.
Do you criticize the people cosplaying as Hamas in the photos of basically every Palestinian protest I see? Maybe you should tell them that Hamas is funded by the Jews.
You’ve gone too deep. You’ve fallen prey to the old antisemitic ideas that the Jews are secretly puppeteering every bad thing that happens in the world. This is a very old pattern we’ve seen before. Keep people constantly angry so they can’t think straight. Inject conspiracy theories about an ethnic group doing evil things. Tell people they can’t trust anything that disagrees with the narrative because they’re secretly in league with that evil ethnic group.
Kind of on the nose that you’re going with the Jews being the secret puppet masters. I mean it should be obvious by now what those conspiracy theories lead to. Look at the photos of German cities at the end of WWII. That is the end result of this kind of rhetoric. Then when you look at the images of Gaza being blasted at you non-stop, you might start to understand the pattern that you’re a part of.
It’s not the Jews that made Hamas what it is, that’s just an insane antisemitic conspiracy theory. It’s hatred towards Jews that made it what it is. October 7 happened because of hatred towards Jews. You’re witnessing the destruction caused by hatred. You should ask more questions about the hatred that they’re creating within you.
There was hope that the younger generation wouldn’t fall for this kind of thing. But the cycle just continues on. Maybe the next generation will understand that they aren’t too special to not become a part of this cycle of hatred and will be able to break it.
History does not judge those that promote antisemitism well.
I criticize Israel. Not the Jewish as a whole. I’ll criticize any country that commits genocide.
By the way, by arguing with me (a gay person) that makes you homophobic. Does that seem silly? It’s the same argument you just spent 5 paragraphs trying to make. Get a grip
The article is saying that it was a mistake to ever negotiate with Hamas. Are you saying you agree with that? There’s currently a negotiation for a ceasefire with Hamas, by negotiating with Hamas that would be “propping them up” according to this article. So I’m concluding from this you’re against there being a ceasefire. Is that correct?
I don’t think it is. You’re not thinking about anything rationally, you’re reading everything you see as “Israel is evil” without any kind of critical analysis. You have no coherent position on anything other than you hate Israel. You’re dog whistling antisemitism, and you may not even be aware of it because you’re just repeating whatever you see in TikTok, certain that if you emulate the righteous anger you’re seeing from those you have a para-social relationships with you’ll be in the right.
Going along with the group on antisemitism isn’t anything invented by TikTok. It’s just concentrated it and made it much more addictive.
damn you got some long arms, never seen a reach like that before.
This conversation is spiraling. I’m not going to argue with someone who misrepresents my intentions or character. Or someone who blindly defends Israel despite obvious issues with its leadership. We could go in circles forever with your increasingly conspiratorial assumptions and accusations. I’m just gonna end it here before you sprain an ankle jumping to conclusions.
Seriously, I hate TikTok, yet I still recognize that everything you’ve said is bullshit. I get 0 news from TikTok and still know that none of your concerns are justified. Foreign countries can just buy your data from every other social media company. It’s not uniquely spyware for the CCP.
There’s no evidence that China has a secret backdoor to suppress evidence of their genocide, while Israeli and Christian fascists are openly manipulating social media to hide their genocidal actions and promote hate. TikTok is evil, but not a unique evil worth fighting in particular. They’re evil as a social media company, not because of their ownership.
Democrats are ridiculous for supporting this, as they rely on the youth vote more than Republicans. If right wing billionaires take over TikTok to promote fascism, Democrats have shot themselves in the foot. If the app shuts down, they’ve shot themselves in the foot. This political theater will probably hurt them more than help, but they genuinely believe there are enough nationalistic liberals who give a fuck about banning TikTok to outweigh young people they’ll dissuade. Nationalistic liberals aren’t going to change their voting behavior much over this, while young people honestly might.
I don’t think it’s about the data as much. If you can predict and influence the civilian population of your global competition, that’s immense power from abroad. I could see a national threat. It’s not an accident that hearts and minds are underlined when attempting to project power into a region.
And they already can, probably more effectively on other platforms as well. This bill will not address the issue. They’d need to target all social media companies instead of just one. If fascists unwilling to do basic moderation acquire TikTok, the problem will only become worse.
When all social media companies oppose a bill, maybe we’ll actually have something effective.
Except that America can tell American companies not to do certain things. You can’t stop china from essentially causing instability here through tiktok, they own it. You could stop them if they were using Reddit, Facebook, etc. it’s not going to happen. But to pretend that a foreign owned mass media app is anything but a way to control a population, or narrative, is sort of funny. America does it with their shit. Why would we not be more threatened by something abroad. Why would a nation allow foreign propaganda?
We won’t tell companies to do anything at the moment, and yet this is somehow a priority. It is a problem, but it isn’t as pressing and they aren’t addressing it well.
Well the Chinese communist party isn’t a US owned company. So, it is most definitely a priority. This isn’t the first time it’s almost been banned. It is a pressing concern. Why don’t you feel that it is?
We also fined the shit out of YouTube in 2019 for collecting and selling children’s data without consent. Can’t do that with the CCP. I’m actually shocked that I’m proud of the FTC for once.
Priority in comparison to every other national security concern? No, definitely not. Not even as far as keeping American data away from adversaries.
We need to focus on regulating who all social media companies sell their data to, not just who “owns” a single company. Twitter could sell extensive user data to Russia, yet not face the same repercussions as TikTok. Google probably sells more useful data to the Chinese government than TikTok could, all while not getting punished in any way. Banning TikTok does more harm to the Chinese shareholders than the Chinese military.
You think the $170 fine against YouTube stopped them targeting kids? That’s just the cost of doing business. Do performative bullshit and pay a one time tax every decade or so. That’s all fines can do. Unless the fine is ongoing and harsh relative to the company’s size, it doesn’t move the needle much.
The current YouTube algorithm demonetizes all videos with swearing or adult themes. Advertisers pay to target kids more than ever. That’s a big motivation behind making videos “advertiser friendly.” It’s like how blockbuster movies push for a pg13 rating; to target impressionable kids with disposable income. Advertisers know kids have more free time and less fiscal responsibility. It’s less about moral values that adults hold nowadays, and more about getting money from parents through their kids.
You don’t seem to understand how tech companies actually operate, or what the government could actually do to keep Americans safe. The problems are actually worse than you think. The government doesn’t make much of a difference because politicians are unwilling to take meaningful action.
I’ve learned long ago from many conversations with MAGAs that the request for evidence is a tactic to get someone to waste their time. If I provided you evidence it would be rejected as being from a biased media or some other excuse. The indoctrinated cannot be convinced by words on the internet because you can always find other words on the internet that say the opposite.
But maybe take a moment to consider that you’re behaving in the exact same way as the MAGA crowd when the sources of their narratives are questioned. Do you really want to be like the MAGAs? Not able to question the motives of people that are shoving out endless narratives that making you constantly angry? Is that who you want to be? Someone that’s made to be constantly angry and just trusting that authoritarians would never try to manipulate you?
Do you think Xi Jinping is a good guy in the same way as the MAGAs think Vldimir Putin is a good guy? Yeah they’re authoritarians but they’d never ever cross the line and use their power to manipulate you… right?
Crafting strawmen and equating me with American fascists and Chinese fascists? You’re hilarious. I make the mistake of assuming people are bad faith actors sometimes. That’s why I try to account for nuance in my responses, allowing geniuses like you to completely gloss over my actual arguments like cartoons stepping on rakes.
People just don’t want to comprehend my arguments, as they might actually need to question their opinions if they do. It’s not even indoctrination per say, your brain is just protecting itself from having to challenge your beliefs or identity.
China’s government is bad. They are not socialists, but national socialists interested in their own power. I’ve seen no evidence of TikTok being manipulated behind the scenes at the moment, while Twitter is being openly manipulated by Musk to push fascism. Facebook, Reddit, and Instagram are a hive of manipulation that the owners refuse to moderate unless it pleases advertisers, allowing unscrupulous movements of tribalism and lies to spread unimpeded. The Democrats are making a TACTICAL blunder in banning TikTok, endangering democracy in the process.
Do you understand, or is this still too much for you to grasp?
There are Hollywood level propaganda ads being played on multiple platforms as well as the fkn superbowl. So I’m gonna assume the terrorist propaganda you are talking about is the Israeli government.
People acting more terrified at the loss of tik tok from their lives than they did during covid, while losing people from their lives.
Tik tok might as well just change their name to empathy box, because they have convinced their users that the act of watching content on empathy box makes them more moral and politically aware than the rest of us.
At the end of the day, we have to be nervous when a foreign nation has content reach to 80℅ of Americans. This foreign nation is banning Americans from accusing it of genocide while allowing an economic incentive for Americans to accuse themselves and everybody else of doing it.
Deep down, every one of us knows tik tok is a power nobody can or should be trusted with.
Don’t use TikTok, don’t really care too much either way, but watching this whole thing unfold is starting to open my eyes to the ways these companies can shape public opinion.
They’re apparently sending notifications to people to contact their reps and it seems very likely that they’re promoting content that advocates against the ban.
I’m not a fan of censorship or blocking internet services but TikTok really seems to trying to make a good case for it.
My understanding is that while rights are inalienable, meaning we recognize that Chinese citizens have the inherent right of free speech as well, not just in our direction, I’m not sure we grant free speech to mean a foreign state gets to use its technology to determine our national conversation.
I’m sure there would be teenage trans kids who through confusion ended up pro hamas, but I think tik tok could almost be accused of creating and fostering a movement that is certainly close to that very thing.
I never conflated a pro-hamas movement with an anti-israel one.
If there are leftists or vulnerable minorities who have become indoctrinated into pro-hamas rhetoric, yes, I clearly think tik tok is responsible because these kids certainly aren’t reading it on on storm front.
I am not interested in having a conversation where you pretend I am talking about the pro Palestine/anti Israeli government movements.
Sure and my racist uncle’s joke about drowning a random person totally isn’t just his black guy joke barely concealed.
The narrative has for months been that anyone who is critical of Israel is Pro Hamas. And now you want us to believe that’s changed when someone is defending the most breathtakingly xenophobic bill in modern times?
My dude. No leftist is pro Hamas. Hamas wants to create a religious ethnostate just like Israel wants to create a religious ethnostate. We ARE pro Palestinian freedom. But Israel is the one who keeps making Hamas the dominant Palestinian political party, in order to use them as an excuse to continue their genocide.
Stop pretending to know what the left thinks when you’ve clearly never actually spoken to their members.
This isn’t the first time a company has done that. Uber famously used pop up ads to get people to vote for a ballot proposition. Enron went so hard on PR that everyone blamed the government for people losing the pension that had already been embezzled by the executives.
If you’re gonna ban this speech, then you should ban all speech from foreign governments, including the propaganda Israel is filling our country with for their genocide.
But this same congress who is so ready to silence China is unwilling to silence Israel. And Israel is not our ally. Our allies don’t try to drag us into genocides.
That’s not what they’re taking about doing. They want to sell TikTok to a US interest. Not 900 of them. This is literally a chance for Musk, Zuckerberg, Apple, and Alphabet to grab up the best short form video app for cheap.
That’s all it is. It is incredibly corrupt and the state department calls that out in other countries all the time.
How does us banning TikTok make us any better than China then? How does it make us any more free?
The whole point of freedom of speech is that everyone has it, even that speech you hate. The answer is more speech.
Lets see Biden grow a pair and go on new media and answer actual questions, not softballs. Then maybe people will start listening to him. And maybe he’ll learn what we’re actually concerned about.
As an Australian who gets bombarded by the US point of view and agenda from their tech companies - I think America could do with an outside influence undermining the government’s point of view.
As the post points out - the US government is doing an incredibly shitty job looking out for its citizens, and if they were afraid of a propaganda machine holding them accountable and creating civil unrest it might be for the best.
It’s just a shame the power that owns the means to do that happens to be china. I wonder if things will return to normal once the citizens pack away the guillotine
Undermining the US government’s point of view is one thing, but the argument could be made they are undermining your viewpoint more than the US government’s.
Oh for sure. I guess I despair because I don’t see a way out of the bullshit without civil unrest, but I think we have all grown weak and soft in the middle and are just willing to take it. I’m not sure it’s possible anymore and feel like the human race as a whole are just becoming slaves.
I used to think the USA at least had a semblance of justice and fairness especially compared to China, but I think it really is just every man for themselves now and greed is all that matters.
It’s not much better here in Australia either. There is no sense of community, or trying to build a better society. It’s almost applauded to be corrupt and selfish.
The government does a shitty job, but it is representative. American culture is dominated by billionaire worship, consumerism, and greed. We shouldn’t be so surprised when our elected officials share our values.
Deep down, every one of us knows tik tok is a power nobody can or should be trusted with.
I disagreed with you up until this point. You’re exactly right about this.
The problem is that nobody should have this kind of power. But our government thinks this kind of power is just fine as long as it’s a US company they can control.
If nobody should have this power than nobody should have this power. Not China. Not Musk. Not Zuckerberg. NOBODY.
But we have a feckless, ineffective government written by racists 250 years ago and this is literally all they can do.
American social media companies are also controlled by foreign powers. I have no interests in common with the ultra wealthy and massive corporations that control this country. They are just as foreign to me as anyone in another country. I trust them less than I trust TikToc.
Actually, yes. The only exception would be YouTube, but I don’t let the algorithm tell me what to watch. I have a handful of channels I follow, and sometimes look up a howto video.
I am much less concerned about foreign news reaching the American people than the outright lies being spread in the American news without people batting an eye. And the fact that a foreign government (Israel) literally owns our government.
Oh so a chinese news source pointed this out to the youth? Good. It shows that we are so sick of not being able to trust OUR news that we’re looking elsewhere. Banning TikTok won’t fix that. I won’t go back to CNN or Fox if you take away that option. I’ll continue to look elsewhere
Who’s next? Al Jazerra? The hindustan times? The BBC?
Are you actually fucking insane? How does the Israeli government literally own the US government? That’s not even true figuratively. What the fuck are you saying
Quick Google search: “Generally, there are no restrictions on foreign ownership of a company formed in the United States. The procedure for a foreign citizen to form a company in the US is the same as for a US resident.”
The missing link is to recognize that billionaires are citizens only technically. They have no interest in the well-being of their nation (or even their planet), nor are they subject to any of its laws.
Usa invented the Online psyops/spy game with facebook/google. Now they pissed china beat them at there own game.
Wanting to ban a app/service that basically gives your biggest economic and political enemy direct conact to the local networks/brain of your population is understandable.
I mean those are the reasons why china banned Facebook/Google years ago.
Reality is more complicated tho, cause unless the usa is willing to build a chinese firewall for themself, it will be impossible to keep people from using TikTok via VPN.
If the usa would actually care for its citizen privacy they could just outlaw closed source software.
willing to build a chinese firewall for themself, it will be impossible to keep people from using TikTok via VPN.
A majority of people probably won’t bother and just move on. A decent chunk, 30/40% maybe but that still leaves a 70/60% reduction and it’s influence permanently neutered so the gov will still see it as a win
unless the usa is willing to build a chinese firewall for themself
Honestly, I feel like in the next decade we’re going to see a whole lot of great firewalls. Every other country wants to control everyone and get in people’s heads. We’re either going to invent some way to regulate this desire (unlikely, if you ask me) or end up with a lot of spying and/or fractured network 😞
It’s my understanding this is designed for TikTok to be sold off, not to ban it.
Anyway, yeah I agree with everything else. Anyone “defending China” here is ignoring the Chinese firewall, but also everyone “defending the US” must also agree the Chinese firewall has a useful purpose. The fact is this is just about control and/or greed. It’s not any more or less evil than all the other shit the governments do to control people. It’s not going to hurt anyone here, but it’s also probably not going to help them either.
I won’t touch TikTok anyway, so I really don’t care. It just seems like everyone is misunderstanding what’s going on and hypocritical with their stance, whichever position they hold.
Which is still an unprecedented power we’ve consistently called out other countries for doing. Also, targeting a single entity is unconstitutional, it’s a Bill of Attainder.
No. It isn’t charging them with a crime, which is what a bill of attainder is for. It’s only saying they won’t be allowed to do business in the US. I’m fairly confident it is absolutely legal and constitutional, and also it isn’t unprecedented either. For example, see Huawei.
You can argue ethics all you want. It won’t stop anything, nor does it really matter in this situation. Ethics aren’t in play, because this is about power. Regardless, it’s equally ethical for the US to do this as what China does to prevent western companies operating in China.
You’re missing a very key part of it, I assume on purpose. It imposes a punishment for a crime. No one is accusing them of a crime. I don’t know where you got this idea from, but they’re wrong. They may have said it very confidently, but it’s incorrect. Doing this to “protect national security” is perfectly fine. The intent is not to punish them.
We’re going to pass a law that punishes a someone or a group, but it’s okay if we just don’t say, “they’re guilty of X.”
Somehow I don’t think the courts are going to share your interpretation. And in your own article they do not. Nowhere in the test does it state the bill must name a crime.
Sensitive country is defined by the following list, (xxx,xxx,xxx)
Any company that sells, or gives American data to a sensitive country; or cause their data to come into possession of a sensitive country shall cease operations in the US.
Any company allowing a sensitive country to manipulate their algorithm, examples of (but not exclusively) with targeted advertising, bots, or by manipulating the ranking of posts, shall cease operations in the US.
That achieves the mission and holds the entire industry accountable without unconstitutionally targeting a single company.
🤓 “Uhrm axetually, inflation is dropping and wages are slightly rising, so people shouldn’t complain because the economy is actually great. They’re really just imagining things and suffering because they weren’t responsible with their covid checks.”
Seriously, liberals think that’s all people are upset about. They don’t recognize that already existing trends and enshitification of capitalist products are making things suck for people. They don’t appreciate that housing inflation has been way too high for decades, and that cheaper nonessential junk doesn’t make up for it. Inelastic demand that the government will not address because politicians don’t understand the struggles of new homeowners and renters.
When most people can’t win at the game, they don’t care to uphold it.
Someone is going to see this and downvote you because they saw you use the word “liberal” negatively and immediately think you’re a right-winger or something.
But yeah, if the media outlets would understand that “the economy” (rich peoples yacht money) is based on garbage metrics, maybe they wouldn’t act so offended when people call them out on it
This place has become more liberal recently. I don’t love smug leftists who think being a socialist automatically makes you virtuous, but it is annoying to deal with people that aren’t fully awake to reality. Capitalism is the problem, and while being scant on solutions and strategies is awful, not even seeing the problems is worse.
I just don’t understand how some people think rejecting capitalism is going too far. Like it’s bad, everyone knows it’s destroying us, it takes nothing to admit it. Feels great to be anti-capitalist.
Yeah, but as of July 2022 the credit bureaus don’t report medical debt. After I got a surprise $5,000 bill in the mail after my copay for an ER visit where the doctor spent 5 minutes misdiagnksing me and sending me to to wrong specialist, I was able to tell them to go to hell.
I really don’t think people even understand inflation enough to realize “inflation is dropping” just means prices are still going up but only a little at a time instead of the near doubling it was a year or 2 ago and how little people have been wage matched to the stipl increasing costs.
They don’t actually want to get rid of tiktok. They just want it to be owned by a consortium of American billionaires so they can influence public policy more easily.
Part of me would rather have it with capitalistic sociopaths that want to extract my money rather than an authoritarian government that is provably responsible for (multiple?) genocide(s). Like, in a perfect world, there’s a better system, but at least our government still, in theory, can control the businesses within our country. They won’t though.
an authoritarian government that is provably responsible for (multiple?) genocide(s)
Yes, US has a history of it. As a matter of fact, it was built on a genocide of the native population and is currently contributing to one in the middle ea
Whataboutism. One, in theory, I have a say for/against(in theory) another I don’t. It isn’t hard. But, yes, US bAd. Good job. Anything to actually add?
You don’t have to tell me about the murders of my ancestors.
Also, to follow up, the US government doesn’t control social media here, unlike wherever your bot farm is out of. Which is why your whataboutism really falls flat, cause one media company is controlled by an authoritarian government currently eradicating Uighurs and the other is owned by Zuck, who’s trying to idk honestly, drown in money?
The US government is controlled by the same interests and lobbbyists that control the government, so it’s similar although not the same thing. Just because their interests align at this moment because the billionaires don’t want competition and the government has a hard-on for Israel doesn’t mean their right.
And for the record, I don’t even use Tik Tok, and I personally think social media and shortform content is bad for young brains and probably causing a lot of ADHD and impairing my ability to read. But I find this whole bill very fake and performative and probably done for the wrong reasons. It’s weird that we finally got an international perspective unfiltered by US media companies that bow to AIPAC and of course it’s getting banned.
ok, to be fair. There have been recent investments into people generally in poverty, in regards to improving their financial situation, as a means to improve their overall health, it’s still in trial stages, and very new, but it IS happening, and it IS positively affecting people.
Also, “we” aren’t really witnessing a genocide, i’m assuming to this is referring to war, if not, I’ll take my leave.
last i checked, there is a wiki page with a list of “serial killers” and if you sort by death count, you get like 180? Last i checked, similar situation there i imagine. Some dude apparently just woke up and decided that he needed to violence. Gotta love humanity.
Should have said while approving/enabling of a genocide.
The current administration has vetoed multiple UN drafts for a conflict resolution over Gaza as well as other UN resolutions proposed. We’re still sending the Israelis weapons. Neither congress nor the current administration care.
officially: data mining and algorithm manipulation to promote propaganda
unofficially: data mining that hasn’t been approved by the US government and algorithm manipulation to promote propaganda that hasn’t been approved by the US government
Yeah the information age is turning into the profit maximized end game.
We all had access to information, then gave up our own in response. And now having specific data to find truly only the most useful and profitable people and marketing is the new gold. But honestly I think the data isn’t actually as useful as oil. It’s more like gold. And these companies are trying to sell shovels. Tools for scraping and using the data but eventually people must realize that it isn’t enough.
Moreso gives google and meta a fat profit, and they bought congress. I personally also think that suppression of info about Palestine is a driver of the bill as well, and that rewards congress through the legal bribery that is lobbying.
It’s the corporate class protecting one another’s shared interests in the US. Kick TikTok out and suddenly it paves the way for a competitor like Meta.
They’re trying to force a sale or ban it, and I don’t think it’s certain what the details are, so who knows what criteria the owner needs to have
(it might be so specific only a handful of people/groups qualify, so they can suppress the price and ensure it goes somewhere specific… It’s shockingly common, especially when legalizing something or when other nations are concerned)
They’re trying to force a sale or ban it, and I don’t think it’s certain what the details are, so who knows what criteria the owner needs to have
(it might be so specific only a handful of people/groups qualify, so they can suppress the price and ensure it goes somewhere specific… It’s shockingly common, especially when legalizing something or when other nations are concerned)
How is TikTok helping the working class? It’s an app that wastes your time and sells you products. There is no intent to help the working class. Stop glorifying governments. China doesn’t want to help liberate the working class or anything like that, if that’s what you’re implying.
TikTok isn’t going away. It’s just being forced to be sold off. Yeah, it’s for profit, but it already is for profit. You’ll still be able to get whatever kind of enjoyment can be had from there. It’s just going to be controlled by a US company.
It’s not going to sell. It literally can’t because of their laws around proprietary tech. They have stated very clearly they will not sell and the people who voted yes knew this before they voted. They voted for a ban.
TikTok doesn’t help anyone but that wasn’t the point of what I said. I was saying that the US government doesn’t actually help its citizens because it’s not profitable for them. The reason the government even cares about “banning” TikTok is because it means their tech buddies (specifically people like Zuck) can benefit from it. It’s corporate greed. TikTok doesn’t care about anything other than profit and data hoarding.
Ah, OK. I misunderstood. Yeah, the US isn’t helping people the way it should, but that’s not really related to TikTok. They aren’t going to do that regardless. Yeah, it’s all about money and power for all of this.
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