I typically run fedora kde, both server and desktop. I’ve a laptop using hyprland which is great once you remember all the shortcuts you’ve setup, but fedora kde is worth its weight.
I wonder how long it’ll be possible to build Gnome with Xorg support. If I had to guess I’d say there won’t be any support within the next 3 years, because keeping future Gnome working with Xorg is work nobody wants to put in.
That said, Xwayland will likely keep being around for the foreseeable future.
Out of curiosity, do you use Xorg and if yes, what’s keeping you from using Wayland?
@wer2@Chewy7324 exactly the same here. I too daily drive XFCE, never really change my setup, and don't require anything special that wayland offers. My setup just works for the most part....
Those are all good reasons. XFCE aims to support Wayland with the next release, so if they choose to use an established compositor it shouldn’t be too buggy.
With XFCE porting their apps over the setup shouldn’t change much, unless you’re using Xorg specific tools.
Over the last few years most features I’d expect from a windowing system were added to Wayland, so I expect the drama to cool down. (I don’t even know what’s still missing (except accessibility), with VRR, tearing, DRM leasing (VR), and global hotkeys being done. It’s just apps like Discord that have to cave in under the pressure to fix their apps.)
Once everything works, there’s no point talking about it.
@Chewy7324@wer2 I'll happily use wayland once XFCE officially releases support. I'm sure there may be a few kinks to work out or whatever with the initial release, but that's to be expected....
@Chewy7324@GolfNovemberUniform I'd say as soon as screen readers work properly under Wayland, they could drop X11 builds. But they should definitely not do it before fixing that.
The actual implementation would be per desktop. The desktop draws to the screen and then the apps connect to the desktop. We already have a window capture XDG portal that is used by things like OBS. We could huild a simular portal for just text on the screen. We would just need some way of either recognizing text or even better some sort of image to text engine like what is in Firefox.
Not OP, but I use sunshine and moonlight for streaming my pc to various devices. Wayland forces me to use kms and I can’t turn the monitors off while I’m doing it. Someone was working on a pipewire backend, so hopefully that goes somewhere.
GreenWithEnvy is also a nuisance on Wayland while Nvidia Settings Panel doesn’t even work. I have a custom script just to control my fans on Wayland, but I’m eventually switching from Nvidia anyways, so it won’t matter for much longer.
I switched to Wayland after GNOME 46 release because it fixed the issues I had with it (artifacts and persistent display failures). Many people may still prefer X11 at least because of the lack of input latency on slow machines.
Chances are at some point it will be removed as it requires valuable man hours to maintain. At some point it will be a massive hindrance. I don’t think it will be removed for a while but it probably will be forgotten about.
I used Ubuntu for a long while, then Debian for a new PC because the video card or display just wasn’t working on Ubuntu.
Couple of weeks ago I finally tried this distro hopping thing people have been on about. I’d stuck with Ubuntu for so long due to an apparently misguided belief that it was stable.
I’m now using Project Bluefin from Universal Blue, a derivative of Fedora Silverblue and I’m blown away by how good it is. It uses Gnome and the maintainer has packaged a few tweaks to keep it similar in user experience to Ubuntu, along with a fantastic array of great software I never knew existed.
I’d highly recommend it to anyone historically loyal to Debian or Ubuntu.
For gaming you can easily install Bazzite as a container to access Steam. I can’t say I fully follow the tech stack that makes it work, but it just does. Whereas my boilerplate Steam install on Debian was completely botched.
Has been working for me. The issues I’ve encountered so far are all minor flatpak issues (Firefox not allowed to sleep-lock so the laptop screen shuts off watching videos etc)
Kde has a disable sleep button in the power/battery icon menu which I use as a work around, still annoying and yet another quality of life issue that Just Works ™ on other platforms
How is it relying on XWayland? I don’t know of any KDE Plasma components that require X11. The apps you install might need XWayland but that is separate from the Plasma desktop.
Uninstalling Xwayland breaks it, you’re greeted to a black background and your mouse pointer.
Additionally, as per their own website, it says “The workspaces have been developed for X11 and much functionality relies on X11. To be able to make proper use of Wayland these bits have to be rewritten.”
Updates I can ssh into the thing since WiFi is working and turn off I use the power button might have to change some devrules because now it’s long press is mapped to reboot a single nothing, but that should be about it.
Yeah cage is an Wayland kiosk, and for what I tested in my main machine runs KOreader with no problem and should have a virtual keyboard.
I’m generally more of a Debian user, when I use Linux at least, so anything red hat based doesn’t even occur to me to recommend. I generally don’t get involved in distro discussions though.
My main interaction with Linux is Ubuntu server, and that’s where my knowledge generally is. I can’t really fix issues in redhat, so if someone is using it, I’m mostly lost on how to fix it.
There’s enough difference in how redhat works compared to Debian distributions that I would need to do a lot of work to understand what’s happening and fix any problems.
I recommend that you transition instead of switching. That way you have a way to roll back If the distro you are trying out proves not to be what you expected.
There are many reasons Microsoft software is only “good” (and I’m using that word loosely) in business and home settings. Can you imagine a rocket taking off and windows suddenly “rebooting to complete updates” (or whatever it is that it says along those lines)?
I’m not sure if your issues are related to the distro(s) used and not to the hardware. But if you wish immutable distros…
You can try to use Ubuntu, but installing all the apps as snaps (and/or flatpaks). That will give you immutable-like experience on a regular Ubuntu installation. Otherwise, I’d recommend to try Fedora Silverblue and openSUSE Aeon.
I’d you want immutability and things that just works, snaps are the exact opposite of what he needs. I’m gearing up to swap away from Ubuntu for the same reasons as him, and the snap ecosystem is utterly fucked and accelerating my timetable daily.
I’ve never seen something so damn broken, and it gets more so every update. It’s gotten to the point of where snap store will just straight up log me out of my session out of the blue when it finds an update so it can install it, losing all of my work.
I should note that after noticing it wasn’t detected by the boot menu, I formatted with NTFS. It is detected in the list of drives that the bios has however
IMHO you should first figure out what exactly happens/goes wrong with your Ubuntu installations.
Immutable distros might or might not be a solution, but if the core of the problem is really the quality of the Ubuntu updates for example, you could try to run Debian (stable).
But again, the suggestion to use Debian is throwing a solution in the room which might not fit your problem.
Just as a reference point: I am running Debian stable on Laptops, Netbooks, Raspberry Pis and in virtual machines (AMD64/AArch64) and have no weird bugs, everything works for years now and runs smooth.
Concerning the Steamdeck… I love them, they run perfectly fine, but unless you are tweaking them/do more than run games, you cannot really compare them to what happens on your desktop.
It sounds really strange, that you end up with the problems you described given your usage.
My systems are heavily modified/tweaked, so one would expect I would experience the problems you describe.
Given your usage, using an immutable distro sounds like a no-brainer to me, immutable Linux was created with your usage scenarios in mind.
In your shoes I would still try to pin point the root cause of the error, because in theory™ your usage should not be a problem for any of the mainstream Linux distros and we don’t know if an immutable distro solves your trouble.
Given your 6 montish circle it sounds like some kind of accumulation? If the computer runs stable for several month, IMHO you can rule out hardware problems, unless you have a kernel update every 6 months… :-P
Can you be more specific about your hardware, laptop model and Ubuntu version you are using?
If you ever figure out what happened, or if you try out an immutable distro and it runs for a year for you, give us an update! :-)
Right? I’ve had these issues with a Framework 13 AMD and have experienced these problems on Kubuntu 23.10, Ubuntu 22.04, and Kubuntu 24.04.
Otherwise the computer runs stably albeit certain flatpaks and snaps just stop working for some reason over time (like BambuStudio and Webcord and a Notion web wrapper and Kdenlive).
Your immutable distro will not be tailored to your hardware by a team of qualified and paid engineers. I’m not entirely sure why the heck do you think immutability is the differentiating factor here.
When the laptop is from Framework (like OP’s laptop is) and is one of the ‘supported’ distros, and if said distro has a more robust update scheme (related to its immutability), then, quite frankly, its as close to “tailored to your hardware by a team of qualified and paid engineers” as it gets.
I’ve had trouble similar to this. Maybe someone else can give you more info, but I believe you have to install grub on the other ssd as well. Also, to prevent nuking, make your bootable flash drive with windows on it, and then pull your linux ssd out of the computer before booting from your flash drive and only have your ssd in it that you want windows on
I have experienced an issue sort of like that in the past, where my computer occasionally won’t do anything other than spin the fans, unless there’s a working connection to a monitor…
I use the ublue kinoite-main base image, not one of their very opinionated variants. It is best as a base, better than Fedoras (even though you need to trust Github 100%)
Local stuff in your home is persistent, and /etc is also persistent.
But we are working on that.
Bazzite has a ton of WINE stuff on the system, not really the “immutable small core” principle. At the same time they uninstall Firefox, while Flatpak Firefox does not support all things.
So I recommend to install Fedora Kinoite from the official website and follow the rebase guideline here at the bottom
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