He’s just so pathetic. He’s the actual antichrist, i mean there’s not time left for another one, standing there prepared for when he shits himself and singing the song of his stupid fucking people. It’s beneath contempt
This is what I don’t understand about establishment dems playing chicken with our Democracy, their neck is on the line too.
I really don’t understand why they think making a show of being Republican Lite is ever going to start working. If someone wants a fascist they’re just going to vote for a full-on fascist, not a half-fascist.
If this can happen to Convicted Felon and Sex Offender Treason Trump, then it can happen to anybody who pays hush money to a porn star while running for president!!!
You guys also forgot he cheating his wife while running with the party of jeesus, but he made so much shit i can’t blame you for not remembering it all
If we’re gonna speak of possibles, its equally possible that fat orange oligarch wannabe will keel over dead before he can take any kind of political actions
Kissinger lived to be like 100. This motherfucker is gonna be around another 20 years. Spite and hate make you age horridly but you somehow survive off of it way longer than anyone expects.
The thing I hate the most is that apparently we all have to just watch this slow-walk into fascism. We all watched him try to steal an election. We all saw him foment an insurrection. Everyone who has any sense knows full well what the kind of people he surrounds himself with are capable of, and what they want to do to so many people in this country if given a chance.
And yet: almost no one really addresses this head-on and speaks in very clear terms about what the stakes are. Instead, I hear total bullshit like #BidenSoOld and #gEnoCiDejOe <- Do the clowns that keep going on about that seriously not realize that a donnie “presidency” might result in all kinds of blood being spilled within our borders?
Yeah, that’s what frustrates me. There are legitimate concerns around Biden as president. However, every single one of those concerns also applies to Trump, as well as a million more much worse concerns
Exactly. Biden’s foreign policy - like just about every other politician, with very few exceptions - is going to be problematic on at least several key points. Anyone paying the least bit attention and not smitten by the “Washington consensus” already knows this.
But with Republicans in charge and donnie leading them - in addition to an even worse foreign policy, the domestic policy could be so much worse and this time around, there will be less guardrails, and no guarantee that we have any elections past 2024. It’s clear donnie would rather it all burn down than he face even the least bit of consequences for anything he’s done.
I honestly have no idea how much of the voting public actually thinks that way about biden though.
There’s a dozen accounts or so here on lemmy who are just relentless with those lines of rhetoric. They do a good job of making it seem like everyone thinks that way.
There’s no realistic alternative to voting for Biden.
It’s either; make sure Trump loses, or watch the USA and the bulwark of democracy it represents around the world be destroyed.
(Edit: sorry for the rant)
I think most of the ‘low information voters’ (this actually means ‘low intelligence’ but people are afraid to say that) who think Trump is ‘as good or better than the other guy’ are utterly deluded. Their basic lack of intelligence and education has shown this to be the case anyway.
There is absolutely no excuse for voting for Trump unless you are utterly fucked in the head, or so cynical that you think you might make some Pugh money to survive once the US government implodes.
There is absolutely no excuse for voting for Trump unless you are utterly fucked in the head, or so cynical that you think you might make some Pugh money to survive once the US government implodes.
I’m not sure. Perhaps too driven by single-issue foreign policy to understand the wonder ramifications of potentially allowing Trump to win.
The thing they need to understand is that right now a vote for Biden is not a mandate for HIM or necessarily all of the policies that he is forced to carry out (and I mean forced by both GOP shenanigans (immigration stuff) and global strategic positions (Israel)) its a vote to stop the US being turned (even further) into a right wing shithole.
The US does not represent democracy. And it is ever more clear it is not a democracy, but rather the illusion of one controlled by oligarchs and private interests. There is merely an illusion of choice.
Other than all the places with more functional democracies.
What America is a mediocre democracy with a shitload of money and a relatively large population, and that is what matters. There simply is no other singular nation that could stop, for example, China from conquering Japan.
There are alliances that could, but the overreliance on American power has created an absolutely devastating implementation if America turns outright fascist itself, not even getting into what it means if the two largest nuclear nations become expansionist allies.
That corruption exists in most western democracies. The problem is the dogmatic worship for a 200+ years constitution. Temporary fixes won’t do. You guys need to come together and write a NEW modern and functional constitution.
I fear too many people falsely believe that voting for Trump will somehow improve the economy for some reason. They believe that the freedoms we will lose and the marginalized groups that will suffer is just a fair trade in exchange for having a slightly easier time being gainfully employed. This won’t be the case for anyone that’s not a neurotypical straight white christian male but most of them won’t realize this until it’s too late.
Apparently if he had taken the money his daddy gave him, and left it alone he would be considerably richer than he is, and still would have been able to buy whatever he wanted, other than giant towers that consistently depreciated in value.
[…] or watch the USA and the bulwark of democracy it represents around the world be destroyed.
Ok…but I’m watching that occur right now under Biden anyway. Like, dems desperately need to stop moving to the right, the distinction that you’re trying to draw is becoming less and less meaningful with every lesser of two evils elected.
We need a party that allows fighters to lead the way, not fascists and corporate lapdogs. The party politics need to change yesterday, it’s difficult for many voters to see that happening if neoliberalism isn’t kicked to the curb.
Biden is not, as a matter of fact, pushing the Dens rightwards. He is however being forced to make decisions against his nature purely through the machinations of the GOP and their puppet masters. Oh and don’t forget the Zionist lobby who are effectively the Nazis reborn into their victim’s skin.
Because that’s what you do for each other when you’re in the same club
trump has spent his entire life trying to buy his way into the club. But he couldn’t.
He was able to donate enough to Dems to get Bill and Hillary to his wedding.
But you can tell he legitimately thought if he did the “no time to divide the country” in 2020, that he’d get the same treatment.
That’s why he’s going so hard on “this isn’t fair”.
He didn’t actually try to press charges on Hillary for her crimes (yes, they were a minor felony and misdemeanors, but still crimes). So he doesn’t understand why he’s got trials for his crimes (obviously they’re much bigger crimes)
trump thought being a president finally got him into the club, it’s probably the only reason he wanted to be president.
Since it didn’t work, he’s not going to drum up charges on everyone he disagrees with.
Which is why it makes zero sense Biden keeps pissing off his own voters. You’d think he’d be motivated to win when Trump will try to throw him and his whole family in jail.
But Biden won’t stop denying genocide and making republican moves at the border, both of which violate laws and human rights.
He’s got more to lose than anyone this election, and he refuses to act like it for some reason
Both these dipshits are well past their prime they have nothing to loose. Anything bad that happens for long term from any decision they well not be around for.
I mean why are gyiatrics the only people willing to run for government in the States?
Yes, but he’s vindictive, and Hillary was more of an obstacle than a threat.
Trump appointed 226 judges in just his first term. The only President in history to have appointed more in one term was Carter with 262. The most appointed in two terms was Reagan with 383. Trump is well over half way there.
With increased likelihood of getting one of his appointed judges, and conservative control of SCOTUS, this is a viable threat.
”I will appoint a real special prosecutor to go after the most corrupt president in the history of America, Joe Biden, and go after the Biden crime family,” Trump said in June at his Bedminster, New Jersey, residence, just hours after being arraigned at a federal courthouse in Miami on charges related to his handling of classified documents after he left the White House.
But Trump credited himself for not going after Clinton, compared to what is now being done to him.
“Some people said I should have done it, but, you know, could have, would have been very easy to do it, but I thought it would be a terrible precedent for our country,” Trump said. “And now, whoever it may be, you’re going to have to view it very much differently. This is a bad, bad road that they’re leading us down to as a country."
He won’t do it cause if he wins, Biden won’t be a threat. It would be a waste of time and energy for something nobody would actually care about at that point.
Yeah but you’re forgetting that Biden beat him. That fact alone changes the equation massively I think. Trump will delight in pushing Biden into the mud face down.
Let’s not gloss over something important, Trump did try to get Hillary locked up. He had his justice department investigate her and the Clinton foundation both. They couldn’t find evidence of crimes, so Hillary remains free.
Where Trump backed down was not going extra-judicial. But let’s not let him off the hook, he tried, he’s a despot.
And his cronies are still harping on it. There are people in positions of power, with money and influence, who are still trying to do everything to put Fuckface 45’s “enemies” away.
trumps always wanted to be “in the club” that’s all he’s always wanted.
It why he donated so much to Democrats that Bill and Hillary felt obligated to attend one of his weddings.
He thought not pressing charges would get him “in the club” because the next president always pardons others because “consequences would divide the nation” or some other such bullshit.
He legit thought that would quid pro quo him into not facing any charges too.
If he gets office again, he’s going after everyone who disagrees with him.
Which is why Dems need to either run a better candidate, or get Biden to stop fucking around and start listening to his voters.
It’s too risky to keep using trump as an excuse to shove conservative Dems down America’s throats.
We need to run a good campaign this time, with a good candidate.
He wanted to get in good with the Manhattan elites. He was given a golden opportunity to impress them, and threw it away because he’s a stupid, arrogant, greedy idiot.
you’ve got a silly idea that Biden isn’t listening to his voters
You think Dem voters support Israels genocide or codifying Trump’s border policies thru executive actions?
Is this one of those things where you look at a poll of “voters” and see ~60% agree with Biden?
For some reason people don’t always realize ~50% of voters are Republicans and will never vote for any Dem.
What Biden is doing isn’t popular with a majority of the people who might vote for him. But yes, the people who will never vote for him like that he’s conservative. It just doesn’t matter because they’re voting trump.
You don’t live in a country that has a strong Left majority.
Debatable, but irreverent to what Dem voters want. The voters who make up the Dem party have a “strong Left majority” as you put it.
I’m saying Biden and the party should cater to the people they have a chance of voting for.
What lifelong Republican voters and current trump supporters want literally doesn’t matter when talking about how Biden can get votes.
trump will do it again in fact. Every election he doesn’t win is going to see a 1/6 like event, or at least that’s what we need to be ready for.
Which is why beating him is so important, and why Biden needs to stop caring about what people who will never vote D want, and start caring about the people who will never vote R want.
Because the people who go back and forth between the parties are statistically insignificant.
But you keep jumping around a lot, Everytime I explain one point, you pivot to a new one about why Biden shouldn’t be held to any standards and trump has to be stopped.
I agree trump has to be stopped.
But even from your historical example, the way we do that isn’t running a candidate more conservative than what voters want.
The way we do that so running candidates like Obama and Bill. Not Humphries, Biden, or Hillary.
You two seem to be somewhat talking at cross purposes.
As far as I can see, what they’re saying is that the Dem candidate needs to apeal to Dem voters and those who could be persuaded to vote Dem, to ensure their vote. If Biden turns enough of them off and they don’t vote he risks losing. On the other hand dyed in the wool Republican voters probably can’t be turned, so there’s no point trying to apeal to them.
You seem to be saying that not voting for Biden, despite him being unpopular, risk letting Trump in. That is also true, and it is vital that Trump is stopped, they’re just pointing out that that is easier if Biden listens to his base, rather than population wide surveys.
The issue is some people really support the horrible shit Biden is doing, and if the Dem candidate won’t do it, then they’ll vote Republican.
It happened when Obama managed to beat Hillary in 08. Moderates had a movement to vote Republican over Obama, and they did.
They were just statistically insignificant and Obama had a landslide win that flipped multiple red states and got us the House and Senate.
It’s really really hard to get Dem voters to compromise their morals though, moderate Dems need someone horrible they can stand next to and say “we have to stop them!”.
The issue is it didn’t work in 2016, barely worked in 2020, and by all indications won’t work in 2024.
We know what works. But the DNCs corporate donors would prefer a Republican to progressives. So they donate huge amounts during a primary and by the time it’s the general there’s no way for them to lose.
But this is something that is easily searchable and was an absolute huge news story…
If most people have already forgotten about it, maybe that’s the disconnect I’ve been experiencing? Why people don’t realize how much Dems have changed in the last three cycles?
They just genuinely don’t know what it was like before trump?
That actually makes a lot of sense, and honestly I should have thought about that.
Before we can get people on board with what we should do, we need to make sure they’re aware of what has happened. People don’t understand how much they’ve lost over just a few decades.
Yes, one person is exactly the same as a mass movement. The subject got headlines because she was rare.
You were trying to imply that after Obama got the nod there was a mass migration from the Dems to McCain, and that loss was only made up by a massive Left tsunami that had sat out the primaries.
During the campaign, there was significant media discussion of Democratic Hillary Clinton voters backing McCain, in particular members of People United Means Action (also known as PUMA, originally standing for “Party Unity My Ass,” and also known as “Just Stay No Deal”) and those sympathetic to it.[40] After Clinton’s June 8 concession, 40% of women who supported Clinton described themselves as dissatisfied and 7% described themselves as angry; 25% said they would support McCain in November.[41]
Polling data According to Gallup Polls from June 9 to August 17 McCain’s cross-party support fluctuated between 10% and 13%. In the poll for August 18 to August 24 support for McCain among Democrats peaked at 14%. From October 13 to October 19 polls showed McCain’s support among Democrats to be 7%, which was the lowest thus far.[42] The CNN exit polls placed his Democratic support at 10% with the same percentage for liberal support. These results may not represent the general voters due to early voting.[43]
According to exit polls on Election Day, McCain won the votes of only 10% of Democrats nationwide, the same percentage of Democrats’ votes that George W. Bush won in 2004.[5]
Or the poll it referenced? I linked that too
You were trying to imply that after Obama got the nod there was a mass migration from the Dems to McCain,
Nope, I said:
It happened when Obama managed to beat Hillary in 08. Moderates had a movement to vote Republican over Obama, and they did.
They were just statistically insignificant and Obama had a landslide win that flipped multiple red states and got us the House and Senate.
Like, it seems the issue is your drastically underestimating how disproportionately moderate party leads represent the very very tiny percentage of Dem voters who are “moderate”. The moderates are not the bulk of the party, they never were.
But to be honest, it doesn’t seem like you’re interested in actual talking about this, you keep trying to turn this into an argument…
According to exit polls on Election Day, McCain won the votes of only 10% of Democrats nationwide, the same percentage of Democrats’ votes that George W. Bush won in 2004.[5]
So, literally no mass movemnet by “Moderates” trying to screw over the Left.
I don’t want to talk about it because it’s meaningless.
This made everyone embrace a shitty leader and even questioning them led to social outcasting for years
The facts that 08 matched the first election since 9/11 is too illustrate how fucking huge it was…
But honestly, if I don’t block you now, you’re going to say something else that is so easy to explain I take the two seconds. You haven’t learned anything yet, I doubt you will if I put more time in.
Bush won in 2004 by about 3 million votes, 50.7% of the vote to 48.3.
I was actually around in 2001 and went to numerous marches against the Iraq invasion. New York City, which was the place hit hardest on 9/11 went against Bush. They also hosted a few of those anti Iraq invasion marches.
You’re the one who keeps rewriting/reimagining history.
Read this guys words and you’ll see he’s just throwing words around trying to stir things up.
I said that the Left doesn’t have an overwhelming majority, and he disagrees. A few lines later he says that the GOP has a lock on 50% of the overall vote.
I think you’re significantly misunderstanding whst they’ve said, or at least I get something entirely different from it.
The two of you seem to actually agree on almost everything, including that the Dems don’t have an overwhelming majority (I can’t see where they’ve said otherwise anyway). You seem to be saying that people should vote Dem regardless of what they’re doing, which they, and I agree with. They’re trying to point out that a) the Dems probably can’t win over solid Rep voters, and that trying to by making policies that would appeal to them risks alienating the Dem base, and more importantly swing voters and b) making policies that appeal to the Dem base and potential swing votes, despite the fact they might further alienate Rep voters is likely to result in a larger voter turnout for them.
A lot of the things Biden is currently doing seem to be aimed at trying to get Republican voters on-side, but are quite unpopular with the Dem base. Precisely because they don’t have a large majority losing any voters could be catastrophic.
The two parties, and their presidential candidates, are fairly evenly balanced in votes at the moment, both with a solidly entrenched core, a periphery of less commited voters, and the swing voters inbetween the sides. The candidate that wins is likely to be the one who loses fewest of their periphery voters and alienates the fewest swing voters. Making policie to try to ‘poach’ voters from the other party’s core is a lost cause, but might cause some of your potential voters to stay home even if they don’t vote Rep.
, but might cause some of your potential voters to stay home even if they don’t vote Rep.
And it makes a lot more sense to get those people off their butts and vote then it does to change 75 years of US policy quickly.
We still have an embargo with Cuba, and the Cold War ended decades ago.
If people think they are too moral to vote for biden, tell them to look up the former slaves and women who were working for candidates back when they weren’t allowed to vote. None of the people they backed could promise to change things, but they knew slight progress was better than none at all.
Oh I absolutely agree that making sure people actually vote is important, and it’s something a parties supporters can do. You can bet that Republican voters will be pushing each other, and Dems need to be just as dedicated. The thing is, that’s a whole lot easier when your candidate is saying and doing things you agree with, and not doing stuff you abhor. That’s the nit the party and candidate have control over and should be tuning. It wouldn’t be easy to make big changes, but even more moderate changes would be helpful. Biden seems to finally be changing his tune on Isreal a bit at the moment, the question is whether he’s irreconcilably alienated too many voters already, or if he can win them back.
Expecting people to vote for Biden despite disliking his policies because the alternative is worse is logical, but might, I fear, be excessivly idealistic. The more Biden and the Dems listen to their base the easier this will be.
And now, when the Dem party is running a candidate further than the right than Dem voters want…
The party is running exactly the candidate that the majority of voters want. The “party” picks the candidate only in the sense that the party is the primary voters. To pretend this is not how it works is Trumpian level bullshit.
Obama passed the first comprehensive health care law, and had a nuclear treaty with Iran that even Israel said was working. Trump, of course dismantled it.
Biden is forgiving student loans, lessening the penalties for marijuana, and building green infrastructure.
Trump has called for nuking Palestine and imprisoning transpeople. Is that the change you’re hoping for?
Maybe this election we can have real change towards neofascism so there won’t even be a next election. Change is always good right? Oh, you wanted to have positive change? The indispensible prerequisite for that to happen is for the GOP to lose.
Yeah I know. I’m not advocating to not vote for the lesser evil. I’m saying that it would be swell to have a non-evil option on the general election ballot who’s not an independent for the first time since before I was born 41 years ago…
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