theregister.com

mox, to privacy in Telegram CEO calls out rival Signal, claiming it has ties to US government

There is also Matrix, which has advantages over both of them.

electricprism,

Anyone see if self hosted server ever got easy enough? For realsies.

autonomoususer,

Use the Docker container.

The_Dark_Knight, (edited )

Matrix is shit atm mate stop recommending it maybe one day it will become good but that day is not today also they are said to be scattering metadata and bashes XMPP for no real reason . Briar and SimpleX is the gold standard for now only if they had more users .

autonomoususer,

bashes XMPP for no real reason .

This is a lie.

The whole area of XMPP vs Matrix is quite subjective. Rather than fighting over which open interoperable communication standard works the best, we should just collaborate and bridge everything together. The more federation and interoperability the better.

matrix.org/docs/older/faq/

The_Dark_Knight,

Yeah my bad . Shit source from reddit I guess .

xilona,

+1

mox, (edited )

Matrix is shit atm mate

No, it is not.

bashes XMPP for no real reason .

No, it does not.

Briar and SimpleX is the gold standard for now

No, they are not. They might fit a certain niche (or could once they mature) but neither is a good general-purpose messenger, because their goals and designs inherently limit usability.

No messaging platform fits every use case, but Matrix is great for general-purpose private messaging that anyone, anywhere can easily use, without Google services, without a phone number, and without being vulnerable to shutdown if a single country’s laws turn unfavorable. It has other advantages as well. It’s not flawless, but is constantly improving, and is already very useful to many people.

If you have a specific criticism that you can actually support with facts, you could bring it up for discussion. Slinging vague attacks that look a lot like something one might see in a poorly-informed reddit post doesn’t help anyone.

The_Dark_Knight,

Its like you have never used it . The clients and servers are laggy federation is shit etc . but you seem to have your mind set no hope in arguing .

mox,

The clients and servers are laggy

Which ones, exactly? The largest public server was laggy about two or three years ago, but hasn’t been recently in my experience, and in any case, you can pick a different server or run your own. I have never seen a laggy client.

federation is shit etc .

Again, that doesn’t match my experience, and what you’ve written is too vague to have any useful meaning.

no hope in arguing .

Apparently not. Good day.

devraza,
@devraza@lemmy.ml avatar

I’ve previously had issues with Matrix being incredibly slow and unreliable with federation (I’m self-hosting). However, that’s pretty much in the past now and I seem to have somehow resolved that issue.

mox,

Which server software are you running? Any recent experience with Conduit or Dendrite?

devraza, (edited )
@devraza@lemmy.ml avatar

I’ve been using Conduit within a docker container for a while now, and it’s worked pretty well aside from the mautrix-signal bridge (this was fixed in version v7.0.0, I think). Other than conduit, I tried out dendrite, but the latency in sending messages was unbearable.

mox,

I wonder if Conduwuit would be worth a try. I don’t know anything about the maintainer or what led to the fork, but I see it already has active contributors.

devraza,
@devraza@lemmy.ml avatar

I’m not sure - conduwuit does seem to have more active development but it’s not as though conduit is dead either…I also can’t find any other reasons to use conduwuit mentioned on its repository, so I’m just going to stick to conduit.

UnfortunateShort, (edited ) to privacy in Telegram CEO calls out rival Signal, claiming it has ties to US government

Edward fucking Snowden has recommend Signal and I think if anyone knows whether it’s secure, it’s probably him and the NSA.

That and he is paranoid to a point where he physically kills all mics and cameras on his devices, so if he claims anything is secure, I will believe him unconditionally.

TheAnonymouseJoker,

Edward Snowden Is NOT a security expert. Snowden was a NSA contractor. I repeat, Snowden is NOT a security expert.

so if he claims anything is secure, I will believe him unconditionally

This is how you know the brain has rotten and become a slick turd.

Gutless2615,

Username related.

TheAnonymouseJoker,

Do you have any serious and constructive thing to say, or may this be considered a case of hit-and-run trolling?

rottingleaf,

This is how you know the brain has rotten and become a slick turd.

Agreed. Making it a contest of “this talking head seems smarter” means exactly that.

Try explaining that to normies though. They don’t want to understand shit, and they want to think they are safe without understanding shit. That this is impossible they just don’t want to believe, because they don’t understand shit.

TheAnonymouseJoker,

I absolutely aim to challenge this kind of crap. If I leave, I doubt there will be people who will do it consistently. People want to follow X, Y and Z cults but not A, B and C cults, and think they are rational. Rationalists can come up with the most irrational nonsense, which is why they are not rational.

rottingleaf,

That you can’t do something well or at all without understanding it is philosophy. Philosophy is weak in the sense that it exists on the same level as aesthetics or instincts. So it’s fighting instinct in a system built to make crowd management through instinct convenient, - in disadvantaged position.

Also NT people like to champion their stupidest ideas as a banner to assemble under. Stupidest exactly to exclude any rational reason, so that only the feeling of community would remain.

They don’t always say what they mean. They might say “this thing is better”, but what they mean is “I’m with the group which distinguishes itself by support for this thing, don’t be against us”.

rottingleaf,

so if he claims anything is secure, I will believe him unconditionally.

That’s much more stupid than just using Facebook and unencrypted e-mail with Outlook address for communication, but knowing how safe exactly those are.

autonomoususer, (edited )

Same guy shilled anti-libre software and we should let them stop us thinking for ourselves?

dubyakay,

/s, right? I’m just hoping this is missing a /s.

catalog3115, (edited ) to privacy in Telegram CEO calls out rival Signal, claiming it has ties to US government

I am going to repeat what I have said for another similar post.

I still stand for Signal App.

  • Telegram has no default E2EE, Telegram is run by for profit company
  • Multiple flaws were found in Telegram’s encryption algorithm
  • Almost all cleartext messages are stored on telegram server, but signal stores encrypted message temporarily
  • Signal is non-profit & all their source code + finances are public. Even their server codes are publically available
TCB13, (edited )
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

Yes, yet telegram isn’t a piece of shit of an app that runs slowly on every device, can’t sync messages because “something went wrong” and doesn’t depend on electron to run. Also, not funded by the CIA.

hruzgar,

completely agree with you. I can’t believe why you are getting downvoted. Promoting a platform which is funded by the CIA, US gov and Israel. Completely insane really I don’t understand how people are still believing this. They really need to wake up to the truth otherwise things will never change. Privacy will stay an illusion we give ourselves to believe that nobody can read our messages (even if they absolutely can)

johnnyb,

you believe every mathematician and the crypto people are conspiring to spy on us and call other people insane?

Linguist,

Could you not apply this “funded by the CIA” argument to other things such as… The Tor Network? Which was created by the US Military Naval Research? Also some US government departments have donated to Tor. Does that mean Tor is breached?

TCB13,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

Okay that’s fair, even if remove that and assume they hold zero influence / there are no cleaver backdoors Signal is still not good when it comes to performance and reliability.

Coasting0942,

Guys, I think all these computers took military funding. Wake up sheeple.

rottingleaf,

Telegram is as safe as just using Facebook DMs (unencrypted), only it’s Russian.

I suggest you judge for yourself how safe that is.

JubilantJaguar,

Even if it were encrypted and the backdoor was controlled by the Russian state, logically that would make it safer than Facebook for anyone living in Western jurisdictions. The Russian government cannot get them and is hardly going to exchanging intelligence with its enemies.

rottingleaf,

Even if it were encrypted

It’s not.

logically that would make it safer than Facebook for anyone living in Western jurisdictions. The Russian government cannot get them and is hardly going to exchanging intelligence

No it wouldn’t. You shouldn’t opine on what they’d do. They can negotiate, you know. And they are exchanging intelligence all the time.

with its enemies.

If that were true, corporations wouldn’t work with their competitors.

JubilantJaguar,

You shouldn’t opine

To “opine” is to have an opinion. Are you suggesting I should refrain from having an opinion? Does this apply to your own opinions too? Odd place to make such an argument.

Otherwise: interesting point. To me, a state that can obtain personal data by leaning on its owns corporations is, by definition, more threatening than one that has to negotiate for it with a hostile power. But perhaps I underestimate the scale of that practice.

rottingleaf,

On what they would and wouldn’t do - yes, I try not to make opinions.

But perhaps I underestimate the scale of that practice.

Considering that the balance of power between US government and, say, Meta is not much different from the same between it and Russian government (Meta doesn’t have a military, but has ways to compensate for that), that should be right.

okamiueru,

To what extent is it Russian?

xilona,

+1

autonomoususer, (edited ) to privacy in Telegram CEO calls out rival Signal, claiming it has ties to US government

claiming it has ties Which lines of its libre software source code are malicious?

big_slap, to privacy in Telegram CEO calls out rival Signal, claiming it has ties to US government

he’s probably projecting, yawn

NaibofTabr, to privacy in Telegram CEO calls out rival Signal, claiming it has ties to US government

The CEO also claims that users’ Signal messages have popped up in court cases or in the media, and implies that this has happened because the app’s encryption isn’t completely secure. However, Durov cites “important people I’ve spoken to” and doesn’t mention any specific instance of this happening.

[…]

The Register could not find public reports of Signal messages leaking due to faulty encryption.

Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Durov’s entire criticism seems to be based on implications and have no actual evidence of any technical problems with Signal. He’s basically just throwing shade at a competing business, which amounts to whining.

EngineerGaming, (edited )
@EngineerGaming@feddit.nl avatar

Funny how first association is “end-to-end encryption is broken” and not, you know, that whoever used the message got hold of one of the “ends”.

LucidBoi, to privacy in Telegram CEO calls out rival Signal, claiming it has ties to US government

sighs

drwho, to privacy in Telegram CEO calls out rival Signal, claiming it has ties to US government
@drwho@beehaw.org avatar

They’ve never been shy about saying this.

shortwavesurfer, to privacy in Telegram CEO calls out rival Signal, claiming it has ties to US government

Yeah, I’m going to take this with a massive dose of salt. At least, Signal has encryption on by default for people. Where Telegram does not.

Clent,

Sounds like projection. Probably just got back from meeting with his Russian handlers and posted this to sooth their impotent rage.

onlinepersona,

You can’t even sync encrypted chats between devices. Lose your device or have a desktop client? Bye bye encrypted chat!

Anti Commercial-AI license

ShortN0te,

No backup no mercy 🤷‍♂️

Takios,
@Takios@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Yeah, being able to seamlessly switch between the desktop app and mobile is a must for me so that’s something I already prefer in Signal.

doona,

Even Facebook Messenger has E2EE on by default now. Pavel Durov talks a lot of shit considering Telegram still treats encryption as an afterthought.

nbailey, to privacy in Telegram CEO calls out rival Signal, claiming it has ties to US government
@nbailey@lemmy.ca avatar

I wouldn’t put a lot of trust in Telegram. Not only is their cryptography off by default, it’s a bespoke hand-rolled non-standard algorithm that might not work as well as they say. Oh, and it’s been potentially backdoored by the FSB (Russia’s CIA) for six years.

cnet.com/…/telegram-reportedly-ordered-to-share-e…

hruzgar,

non-standard algorithm

thats exactely the point lol. Why would you use an algorithm designed and proposed by the US government in a “secure” messenger?

mox,

Which algorithm are you referring to exactly?

In general, people are wise to use ciphers and protocols that have been examined by the global cryptography community and have held up to that scrutiny.

cyrus,
@cyrus@sopuli.xyz avatar

The algorithm was neither proposed nor designed by the US government, it was made by (what is now known as) Signal, a 501c nonprofit.

The claims of signal being “state-sponsored” come from assuming how money flows through the OTF - Open Tech Fund - which has gotten grants from government programs before. (IIRC)

It wouldn’t make sense for the US Gov. to make such a grant to make a flawed protocol, as any backdoor they introduce for themselves would work for any outside attacker too - it’s mathematics. It works for everyone or for no one. Would they really wanna make tools that they themselves use, just to have it backdoored by other state actors?

And again, Durov’s claims are entirely assumptions, and that coming from someone that has had [various](mtpsym.github.io// different vulnerabilities and weird bugs on their platform

rottingleaf,

Oh, and it’s been potentially backdoored by the FSB (Russia’s CIA) for six years.

From the very start rather.

And there’s been a few cases where not FSB, but mundane police was reading suspects’ messages before arresting them.

Don’t trust Telegram, I use it because, eh, most people use either that or VK DMs in Russia as the default IM. But never trust it for something which should be secret.

You can even have “opposition”-themed channels there or call for rebellions, but don’t ever expect anything to be secret or even pseudonymous. Even without ill intent regularly flaws are found which allow to get a lot of information, and the code quality is sewer-level.

hperrin, to privacy in End-to-end encryption may be the bane of cops, but they can't close that Pandora's Box

Next stop: plausibly deniable end to end encryption.

kbal, to privacy in End-to-end encryption may be the bane of cops, but they can't close that Pandora's Box
@kbal@fedia.io avatar

It's not as if encryption would stop them being able to infiltrate and observe criminal gangs, and generally catch the bad guys. There are all kinds of other tools they can use without having instant push-button access to all communications data.

Encryption doesn't stop them spying on you. It stops them spying on everyone in the world simultaneously all the time with no effort.

TheAnonymouseJoker, to privacy in End-to-end encryption may be the bane of cops, but they can't close that Pandora's Box

There are an incredible number of OPSEC mistakes E2EE using criminals make. It is largely about incompetence, and in some cases maliciousness as well for the elites who love this stuff. And they exist a lot among reactionary leftists, “freedom” libertarians, liberal/centrists and right wing elites.

Prunebutt, (edited ) to privacy in End-to-end encryption may be the bane of cops, but they can't close that Pandora's Box

Some reporter(s?) in Germany found that all the forums for CSA actually host their material in the clearnet, i.e. on Google Drive, Dropbox, etc. (since TOR speeds are shit and those people don’t watch SD videos anymore).

The police could have demanded data from the uploading accounts and that the material was taken offline. They refused to do so, in order to “catch more criminals” or something like that.

So, their “think of the children” is exactly as in the spirit of Helen Lovejoy as it seems.

Sauce: tagesschau.de/…/kinderpornografie-loeschung-101.h…

refalo,

They also openly use youtube for distributing passwords and pastebin links to such content. I have seen multiple channels from a specific country (starts with I) that does this, sometimes going so far as to flash a single letter of the password at a time throughout innocent-looking childrens videos, with the encrypted pastebin link on the last video that requires the full password to unlock. Some others on a site I will not name have been trying to report these channels for several days (they have actually been operating for years with millions of views) but youtube isn’t doing anything. Only company who has done anything was mediafire for removing some actual content.

Scolding0513, to privacy in End-to-end encryption may be the bane of cops, but they can't close that Pandora's Box

If e2ee is what is really keeping you from catching child abusers, then your department is INCOMPETENT and LAZY. Sorry, but all this does is tell me that you are a piece of shit human being(s) that thinks they have to have god-like controls to do your job of jailing actual criminals. or else it’s just an excuse to control everything (it is), in which case you are just evil

Fuck these nosey oligarchs

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