If you want democrats to win, you shouldn’t delude yourself with this stupid article that takes the opinion of one undecided voter (asked out of a group of about a dozen people) and pretend this is something that applies to undecided voters at large. This is copium on the level of 2016 and we’d all be better off if we didn’t huff this bullshit. We should be taking steps to improve our chances, not gaslighting ourselves.
This is unfortunately true. We have the same shit in Germany. The Nazis are uniting while the left fight each other because one doesn’t support lgbtq+ enough, the other group forgot to gender correctly, other hardliners won’t go to pro-democracy protests because CDU voters are amongst them. It’s pathetic. We need a strong and united front against the far right. Not this hissy bullshit.
That phrase “Don’t let perfect get in the way of good” is our stumbling block. We want our candidate to support everything we support and no less. Friggin’ Trump is a rapist, a traitor, a racist, etc., but if he says he wants let’s say Christianity to be the national religion, the Christians are like “Hey he supports us, we’ll vote for him,” and completely ignore everything else. Single issue, boom, they’re in. The left needs to value unity over their individual issues right now.
If you want to see a great example of this is in a comment section, watch the comments on Boing Boing for a bit. The site used to be one of the top 100 sites, IIRC, and maybe still is, and the comments used to be rather fun and interesting. In recent years, it’s been take over by a very far-left fringe with a very particular interest in just checking off boxes and playing “oppression olympics”. It’s a textbook case of this. I got on there a few years ago and made a few comments in defense of sanity and unity among the left.
Some of the best posts making great points got taken down in quick order, even though I was entirely civil the entire time. Those arguing against me - if not the mods themselves - were absolutely violating the supposed rules - had theirs all left up, even if it was using things like ad hominem or just using dumb and overused giphy memes as a supposed “response”. Even anyone that tried to cut a middle ground between me and this echo chamber had their posts nuked, too.
Anyone on the fence witnessing such a thing is not going to vote for leftists, I can tell you that much. If they don’t vote for donnie (or his next version), they’ll just sit out on elections.
I think its a social defense mechanism, I met an old bastard who saw it in full swing after Catalonia when he was a teen. When a bunch of unions where he lived purged out authoritarian elements especially if they sympathized with the Soviets. Basically use debate to figure out who is stupid, lying, or compromised so that you can deal with them. Such things are helped along by it being a semi-constant force.
I think he wants us to vote Trump to justify his doomerism? If things go well then he has to think about the future and act on plans, he’d rather screw up the dems than see things continue to improve under Biden. Seems to be the thinking of most the ‘I’m above politics because I’m unflinchingly negative about everything’
maybe, I mean it tracks with enlightened centrism people speaking utter nonsense while trying to sound deep and thought provoking… but it still bothers me. what does it mean to let go of the democratic party or the united states…
Ok let’s see how the polls move. If they move in the right direction, Biden stays on. If they move in the direction everyone knows they’ll move in, he steps down. Deal?
There will be no negotiations. You will accept what the DNC… your betters… puts forward to you. You will bow and kiss the oldest moldiest feet in human existence.
Now stand up and clap. And you will smile. Bigger now… I see you’re not smiling big enough after placing your vote. Sorry, it’s too late for you… you are now antisemetic and you are 110% responsible for the Republicans installing a authoritarian government.
Don’t forget to chant "Joe Biden is the most labor friendly president in history " 20 times every time when you wake up.
No one who saw that debate was inspired by Biden, no one. Ok maybe 1 out of 100, maybe. But 99 of them were not. Gaslighting won’t help, the goose is cooked.
Agreed. How about the other guy? Was anybody inspired by him?
I’m really sad that it’s come to this. It’s how I feel when my coworkers vote to go out to a sushi restaurant. I don’t like fish and I’m allergic to shellfish, so I eat my pile of steamed rice and bite my tongue when they want to split the bill equally.
I was thinking the debate rules actually saved Trump from his worst impulses. Biden was allowed to speak at full length and Trump gets to appear like he can participate in a civilized conversation while Biden would sometimes go off the rails while trying to fill his time. A lot of his embarrassments started in a decent place, but pivoted badly in the middle.
Trump confidently lied repeatedly without consequences, and so long as someone is unaware that it’s lies, I could imagine them finding Trump’s rhetoric credible that night.
You have a very interesting point about the muted mics actually being in Trump’s favor while simultaneously allowing Biden to ramble like Grandpa Simpson.
Make all the throwaway jokes you want but a low information voter would probably perceive him the way I described and wouldn’t catch the lies. Trump may be older than in 2016/2020 but he appeared present and even reassuring to uninformed or on-the-fence previous Trump supporter eyes.
Yeah that’s what propaganda does. I could absolutely see that MAGA and uninformed people would fall for this tripe.
BIDEN: I supported Roe v. Wade, which had three trimesters.
First time is between a woman and a doctor. Second time is between a doctor and an extreme situation. A third time is between the doctor – I mean, it’d be between the woman and the state.
The idea that the politicians – that the founders wanted the politicians to be the ones making decisions about a woman’s health is ridiculous. That’s the last – no politician should be making that decision. A doctor should be making those decisions. That’s how it should be run. That’s what you’re going to do.
And if I’m elected, I’m going to restore Roe v. Wade.
TRUMP: So that means he can take the life of the baby in the ninth month and even after birth, because some states, Democrat-run, take it after birth. Again, the governor – former governor of Virginia: put the baby down, then we decide what to do with it.
So he’s in – he’s willing to, as we say, rip the baby out of the womb in the ninth month and kill the baby.
Nobody wants that to happen. Democrat or Republican, nobody wants it to happen.
I think a big part of the problem is Biden is a good politician, he’s generally honest and forthright which is what everyone claims to want.
But we’re all so lost in marvel movie logic and cinema tropes that people don’t respond to it, they just want a showman - meanwhile politics is boiled down to robot voice tiktoks and reddit posts that barely scratch the headline so again people don’t respond to reality they need a hyper targeted exaggeration coated in catchy idealism and easily retweetable slogans.
Biden says exactly the right things, minis the sort of speech error we all make occasionally, and his record backs up his ability to actually get things done - often in a way that doesn’t draw massive attention but incrementally makes things better.
Trump is a liar and an actual idiot, like genuinely stupid and uninformed - but he says anything that will sound good at the time so it makes it seem to people that aren’t paying attention or follow complex arguments that he’s the one who’ll get things done
I’ll agree, but he was at the same time more bold, like saying everyone wanted to overturn Roe v Wade. Confident and competent lying can get you far, but if you lie about how the people watching would feel, you undermine all your other lying.
There are few things more maddening than claiming you know how someone feels more than they themselves do. A very credible liar can be undone if they lie that well on a matter the audience personally knows better. Suddenly all the benefit of the doubt purchased by the confidence is erased.
I supported Biden before the debate, I support him now after the debate. But now it’s more of a “Ah fuck, look at this mess I’m going to be voting for, ah fuck what the fuck America aaaaaaah.” Than it was before.
Do you feel like it’s a mess now? I’m not voting for Biden because i think he is a good debater, I’m voting for him because hes done a perfectly fine job as president during some tough times. He’s smart enough to let the systems that have held together for decades continue to function and to take advice from experts.
Trump wants to dismantle the government and fill it with trump loyalists, which adds even more incentive to make sure Biden wins.
I learned absolutely nothing new from the debate. Trump is a habitual liar and Biden is a doddering old man. Out of our two wonderful choices I’ll be voting Democrat but I still wouldn’t trust either of them to drive a car I’m in let alone run the country.
It’s like you didn’t even read the article or what they said and are trying to pretend they said something else. Amazing that you would pull the term “gaslighting” out, it’s almost as if you know what you are doing.
To reiterate he article, they were turned off by Trump’s lies and repeating the same things and avoiding the questions. None says they were inspired by Biden.
Lol did you? It literally cites a single voter and a poll showing Trump trending better among Latinos than previous electoral performances for that demographic. Nothing in this article actually warranted the headline and meta polls show Trump still ahead. Delusion will only hand us another 4 years of Trump
You fighting to sow discord against the only viable alternative is working to get Trump, pointing out that regular people found reason to prefer his responses over Trump and highlighting what they are is useful in helping people highlight the many advantages of Biden.
Yes he’s not as energetic as a lunatic, probably because he’s a sensible human that’s been working hard on his lifelong goal of improving the society he lives in and pushing through sensible and practical reforms that actually help real people and put the nation on track to deal with the many challenges it faces going forward.
Criticizing Biden right now is not “working to get Trump”. Biden could easily step down and get behind an alternative candidate. These things aren’t black and white when we’re still like 4-5 months out from the election.
So nice job of not addressing the fact that you didn’t read the article and nothing I said indicated that I’m trying to sow discord. I will vote for Biden and argue that others should as well
But pretending that the debate helped that cause is worthless. We are losing and pretending we are not doesn’t help. Stop fighting with people pointing out reality and be more vocal on why to vote for Biden.
The problem is the only people saying this are people who have been saying the same things for the whole time and are desperate for it to ve true so it’s hard to believe them, it’s not coming from my friends that weren’t yelling about Biden every excuse they got.
It’s like thuderfoots recent starliner stream, he predicted it would fail and spent the whole time saying ‘oh shit, here it goes… looks like it’s going to explode…’ even when both bits were returned safely he was calling the spaceX staff morons for celebrating because he was so desperate to be right.
People wanted Biden to fail because then they could push their brand of politics but he’s doing great based on actual metrics, so they try to make him fail using opion and tone setting behavior - the exact way Trump beat Hillary, memed that she was bad until no one went to vote.
What? I wanted Biden to succeed. And he wasn’t doing good in the metrics, his approval ratings were bad, being other dems who are way ahead of him in polls. He was tied with Trump, which is insane given how bad of a candidate Trump is. Most all voters (65% I think) thought he was too old before the debate and wanted another choice.
No, but Trump blatantly lying about everything, and refusing to admit that he was convicted possibly did turn some “undecided” voters away from him. This election isn’t so much voting for Biden, as it is against Trump. Or for Trump for the idiots that vote for the felon.
All undecided voters in a U.S. swing states focus group hosted by pollster Frank Luntz said President Biden should be replaced as the Democratic nominee after watching his first presidential debate against former President Trump.
Newsweek is tabloid-adjacent.
Biden is underperforming his 2020 run by pretty much every metric. It’s time to try something different while we still have time.
Lol. There is no time. Replacing an incumbent at the last minute is a death sentence for a political campaign. It would be the most foolish option. Even if Biden came out and said he’s stepping back and letting Kamala Harris take the spot, you’d be fighting an uphill battle for people who haven’t been paying attention to her work as VP, which the uninformed thinks does nothing.
That’s not even taking into account all the sexist and racist shitheads who have been doing all the fear mongering and hand-wringing about the prospect of Harris becoming president by simply being VP. We have a bunch of really shitty people in this country…
That is complete and utter bullshit and smarter minds than me are already advising it, including one of the biggest analysts in the industry, Nate Silver. Here, let me walk you through it:
I’ve thought this through for quite some time and I think you’re missing the opportunity for Democrats to seize the narrative.
“We listened to voters who were unsatisfied with either candidate, a large majority who said age is a real concern for them.”
"Joe Biden stepped down for the American People to let a younger generation lead."
FREE VIRAL MEDIA TIME for months on end about the fresh face of the Democratic party.
A complete lack of developed right-wing talking-points to disseminate.
It doesn’t have to – nor should it be – Harris. I can think of half a dozen other candidates with semi-national profiles who could easily surge in polling with such viral media attention following a Biden resignation.
All we know is what doesn’t work, and what doesn’t work was shown last night. It has been showing in poll after poll after poll despite people burying their heads in the sand: a President with approval ratings in the 30s, and a Presidential candidate who is FAR behind in every data-point compared to where he was in 2020. Need I remind you that Biden took this debate out of pure desperation to begin with, and now he’s now 2 full steps further back than where he needs to be as my link on battle-ground undecided voters proves.
I’ve listened to Jon Stewart, Katie Couric, 2 different NYT podcasts, post-PBS analysis, Pod Save America (former Obama/VP Biden staffers), Washington Week roundtable – and they are all echoing the same fucking thing:
I’m laughing my ass off that you even try to source Nate Silver. Member when he was right those two times a long ass time ago? 🙄
You checked his accuracy rate, friend? It’s not good. He makes prediction models, buddy. Well, then after they aren’t very good, he writes a ton about how they were actually great and everyone misunderstood what the data REALLY was saying.
I’m laughing you don’t seem to understand how statistics and probability work. But please, DO tell how he was wrong – I’m going to enjoy this.
But hey, excellent attempt to cop-out of the myriad of other points in my comment, buddy. Can only respond to maybe 10% of a comment but want to try to take down a leading statistician? Okie-dokie!
Given the timing that nearly all the primaries are done, his replacement would necessarily be someone no one even has the chance to vote on. This is a tremendous risk.
However, if he announced someone like “announcing my new chief of staff: Obama”…
That would be interesting and I’m frankly open to it.
I don’t think people not voting is a big deal because frankly we didn’t have a legitimate primary season this cycle anyway. More importantly, if Biden himself voluntarily stepped down and endorsed someone else, then that at least channels those votes through Biden.
As literally every single outlet has already pointed out, plenty of other candidates have had the same issue, and come right back from it. Y’all need to chill out.
You cannott undo dementia or Alzheimers the mans brain is going. With how few press conferences and speeches he has done without a teleprompter its fairly clear that this is NOT new.
He needs to grow a pair and gracefully step down, or he is just handing this to Trump on a silver platter.
At least 2 previously undecided voters now support Biden so I suppose this headline is technically correct, it’s just completely meaningless and insignificant statistically.
I don’t trust Newsweek, you probably shouldn’t either. However, with that being said… if the debate would have gone differently, and let’s just say Joe had a bad sore throat instead of “a cold,” and Joe went up there and said nothing at all, he’d still have my vote in this election. Honestly, I think if Joe would have said nothing, and just let Trump lie, that would have been better than how it went.
He appeared as weak, and a bit incoherent up there. He resorted to name calling on multiple occasions.
Trump lied about 90% of the things he said. Trump sounded better, and didn’t really take the cheap shots at Biden that we expected.
There was nothing about that debate that would have swayed “undecided voters” (who’s that by the way) to vote FOR Biden as a result of the debate. The number of lies coming from Trump may have persuaded some people to vote against him however.
So what you’re saying is that you saw the link was Newsweek, and then decided to read it anyway, instead of dismissing anything in it as potentially non-credible.
That’d be like if someone lied to you their whole life, but you believe them this time because they’re citing DailyMail.
What kind of head in the sand, wishy-washy troglodyte is undecided for this election? We’ve already had 4 years of each, with 24 hour news coverage for literally everything they do.
New voters who never cared about politics previously, and may have just started paying attention when they to college and realized everyone there does. There’s a precedent for that being the case at least heh
That’s not something new, young people traditionally have strong political opinions and fail to turn out for elections. Even in presidential elections, which are the highest turnout for the demographic, you’re looking at maybe 40% in the standard year. Turnout was better during COVID when tensions were high and there was a lot of momentum to get Trump out, but even then it was in the realm of~50%.
Generously, people who were 14-16yo when Trump’s first term ended and weren’t fully aware of what was going on at the time.
Realistically, a large portion of ‘mainstream’ Republicans embarrassed by what the GOP has become - but still not certain if they can go against decades of Fox News programming and vote for a shudders Democrat.
According to this recent study, young people who want a more progressive option
“A majority (60%) think the U.S. should increase spending on social programs and increase taxes on businesses and wealthy Americans.
This survey finds no evidence that a rightward ideological shift would solve Biden’s problems with swing voters. Swing voters broadly think Biden needs to take more action to solve our country’s problems and broadly lean left on economic and social issues. Only 16% say that Biden being “too liberal” is a reason they might not vote for him.
The top two issues swing voters select as actions that would make them definitely vote for Biden are raising taxes on the wealthy (23%) and raising the minimum wage to $15 per hour (18%).”
I suppose that would make sense. Trump doubled down on tax cuts for the wealthy and burning the hell out of fossil fuels. So even if someone were oblivious to his lying, and Trump was able to “perform” more confidently, the end result were policies with grave implications. Also, on the one weak point with progressives, falling to protect Palestinians, Trump’s criticism was that Biden wasn’t pro Israel hard enough…
Perhaps an oversimplification, but I’d say it’s the one point that progressives are so pissed that they would tend to forget that the other likely choice would rather see more genocide. On other points I’d say progressives may wish for better, but are willing to be more pragmatic for now.
According to this recent study, young people who want a more progressive option
I mean I know the young are generally ignorant by the simple fact of their age and lack of experience, but in what universe do they think that’s an option? Maybe like 2 years ago we could have pushed for something, but now? It’s Trump or Biden. Being undecided is just saying you don’t know which of those two you would vote for, any other vote is just a vote for the person you like least to win.
Young people are fucking stupid then if they think trump gets them anywhere nearer their goals.
Source- I was a dumb youth in my day. Vote for the car that gets you closest to your destination, not farther away from it. And definitely don’t abstain and then complain after the fact that things are worse.
I think a lot of voters of every age vote against their own interests.
I mean honestly it’s hard to imagine that a Trump presidency would be good for anyone who is not either part of the Trump family or already very wealthy.
The DNC needs to accept that this is the group they need to go after… And accept it for what it is, not think they’re magically going to change… Convince Biden to drop out and nominate a progressive if they want to win.
This just adds to the growing list of journalists that are discovering people in rural red areas aren’t going to vote for an asshole after all, MAGAs excepted.
Yeah this is reporting on the feedback from a focus group of like 20 people conducted by some Latino TV station… Not sure how representative that is of the wider electorate…
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