theguardian.com

bquintb, to politics in Should Democrats stay the course or replace Biden? | Robert Reich
@bquintb@midwest.social avatar

Idk. He seemed fine as usual the day after at his rally. I don’t know what the hell that was on debate night. Someone idiot gave him NyQuil because of a cold or something??

Anyway, no, I don’t think it’s a good idea to replace him unless it’s someone like Gavin Newsome who has no problem being aggressive against the Orange Mussolini.

anticolonialist, to politics in America’s big problem is not Joe Biden, it’s the menace to democracy posed by Donald Trump

No, it’s Joe Biden. Republicans are total pieces of shit, but they wear their shit on their sleeve. People like Joe Biden Company or like snakes in the grass that hide among us claiming to be our ally. The Joe Biden we saw at the debates was the Joe Biden that the DNC has known about for years yet they still pushed him as their preferred candidate and refusing to primary him. Not allowing voters a right to choose who they would like to elect is not democratic

kiljoy,

The neolibs don’t like when you point out the dems just throw pride flag stickers on the bombs they sell to Israel.

anticolonialist, to politics in Lindsey Graham warns ‘accountability coming to Biden’ if Trump wins

Lady G can go fuck herself

givesomefucks, to politics in America’s big problem is not Joe Biden, it’s the menace to democracy posed by Donald Trump

trump isn’t the cause, he’s a symptom.

trump might be the worst so far, but so has every single Republican president going back to Nixon.

When the Republican nominee is finally not trump, there is zero logical reason to expect that next person to not be even more crazy.

We can’t keep reacting to them and treating every election like it’s the last night at the Alamo.

If we want to stop fascism we need long term planning, planning for what we do if we win, plans for when shit goes wrong, plans for fucking every contingency. Plans for the next decades even after we think we finally beat fascism.

That’s supposed to be the entire point of the national party. Long term strategy past any one candidate.

Instead they only care about raising as much money as humanely possible in the moment.

Shit is too real to just blindly vote blue no matter who, we need to start asking why the people running the party are even around. And if they’re honestly more worried about making money that stopping fascism.

Badeendje,
@Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

The truly despicable people remain in the shadows.

Edit: despicable not disposable stupid autocorrect

CatsGoMOW,

I think you’re right about him not being the cause, but I’m not sure he’s just a symptom. At a minimum he’s certainly a catalyst.

givesomefucks,

That’s where I disagree.

trump just didn’t maintain a veneer of civility.

But any Republican president would have done 99% of the same shit trump did.

What would really be dangerous is someone that didn’t also run around admitting to all of their crimes, we barely are holding trump accountable and he’s completely blatant and unapologetic when breaking the rules.

If it had been Paul Ryan or Jeb in 2016…

We’d be even more fucked than now.

CatsGoMOW,

You might be right, but what I meant is that no one can whip their followers into a mouth-frothing frenzy quite like he does. Come on, no one is storming the capital for Jeb.

givesomefucks,

What did trump actually do to cause it?

Bannon and other shit heels organized it, trump let it happen and shares all the guilt.

But it didn’t happen because trump made it happen, it happened because he let it happen.

What’s fucked, is someone like Jeb likely wouldn’t have been in the position to even try it, because he wouldn’t have fucked up COVID so spectacularly and likely would have won a second term. 2016 would have led to “project 2025” without the need to wait for 2025. Shit would have probably already been done. Jeb would have even gotten more SC seats that second term.

But if he lost due to something like Russian interference coming out (they’d have supported any Republican) and if he thought he honestly might face consequences…

Jeb would have 100% let it happen too.

trump just accelerated things before they were ready, so they failed.

But conservatives have been planning this shit literally since Nixon. Say what you want about the figureheads that get elected, but the people running the show behind the scenes are fucking intelligent, have resources, and plan decades ahead of time.

They also donate to both parties these days to ensure even when they lose, they’re not really losing.

The surface game is just to distract us we won’t fix shit until at least one party’s leadership isn’t corrupt.

It doesn’t fucking matter who the Republican president is, the Republican president hasn’t been the one actually doing shit since before Reagan.

And I know I went on a rant, I’m just sick and tired of the people who deserve the real blame constantly getting away with shit because everyone goes for the fall guy. Fall guy is still guilty. But you don’t stop after getting the fall guy.

jj4211,

because he wouldn’t have fucked up COVID so spectacularly and likely would have won a second term.

I think that, frankly, COVID would have fucked up any president. I mean, we had some damning rhetoric and piss poor moves, but on the other hand there weren’t good moves really to be had. The best response would have still been an economic catastrophe that would not have recovered. We might have had fewer deaths, but we’d still have a lot of them. I think if it had been COVID-11 then even Obama would have lost his second term.

Eatspancakes84,

Here I think lies the main problem. When Biden was elected in 2020, in my understanding the goal was always for him to warm the seat for the next/younger generation. In those 4 years nobody stepped forward, and they are scared of proposing a forward looking vision because it may alienate some voters (either on the left or in the center). So now we have the choice between stagnation or actively tearing down Democracy.

givesomefucks,

You can’t put it on junior party members…

Biden appointed DNC leadership, and if anyone challenged him or the status quo, then they’d ruin their career if they missed.

Obama made it, but if he had lost 08 and gotten the 2016 Bernie treatment it would have likely ended his career.

I’d also argue the concern of the party and it’s leadership isn’t alienating voters, it’s pissing off donors.

For decades the neoliberals running the party have cared about donors over everything else. It’s literally killing the party and preventing us from “winning” even when Dems win an election.

Because the donors that the DNC doesn’t want to piss off, are often the same wealthy assholes giving to Republicans.

People desperately want to act like the Clinton’s attending Trump’s wedding was a one off.

But most of the big Dem donors have more in common with trump than us, and there’s no way they’re giving all that money away to just have to pay more in taxes.

The wealthy bought out both parties long ago, and we can’t just keep ignoring it.

It’s not enough to just be slightly less shitty than republicans.

Grandwolf319,

We can’t keep reacting to them and treating every election like it’s the last night at the Alamo.

Thank you! While I do agree, voting for Biden is a no brainer when it comes to the binary choice, as someone from another country, this shit is frustrating.

You guys have had the same tone since 2016. I get it but clearly there is a huge crack in the system that is just propagating more and more.

The rest of the world is worried, as in worried long term, not just for November.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

It’s not even Republican presidents. Newt Gingrich destroyed the House. Mitch McConnell destroyed the Senate. And there’s a whole bench of people willing to continue their work.

The entirety of the Republican party, from their philosophy to their platform to their elected officials to the individual voters, is a poison. And they have a lot more power than Democrats thanks to their low population density.

givesomefucks,

McTurtle is one of the last dinosaurs where he was in office and doing the dirt.

Ever since Nixon though they realized it’s better to have a fall guy in office and stay behind the scenes.

There’s new generations of them, most people will just never know their names now.

jordanlund, to politics in Should Democrats stay the course or replace Biden? | Robert Reich
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

“Democrats” can’t replace Biden. The only person who can replace the sitting President is the sitting President.

That being said, many people need to have that conversation with him, notably Obama, and tell him it’s time to step aside for the good of the country.

See:

Diane Feinstein
Ruth Bader Ginsburg

Emmy,

And we see how well they went…

FuglyDuck,
@FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

They’re talking about as the nominee.

some_guy, to politics in Lindsey Graham warns ‘accountability coming to Biden’ if Trump wins

We’re acting like this shit isn’t a direct threat. Absolutely amazing to me. Its kinda like the end of the prequels (they sucked, btw): so this is how democracy dies…

DessertStorms, to politics in America’s big problem is not Joe Biden, it’s the menace to democracy posed by Donald Trump
@DessertStorms@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

America’s big problem is not Joe Biden, it’s the menace to democracy posed by Donald Trump

It’s neither, the problem is the illusion that we call democracy, and the compromises we (the people, not the rulers, of course) are told we have to make in order to maintain it (AKA the status quo) despite it being designed to keep us down (again, by providing an illusion of choice) rather than serve us.

As another person already said - trump is just a symptom, it is the system that enables and encourages his existence, and it is the system that needs to be abolished if the working class is to ever have a shot at justice, equity, and equality.

Articles like this are acts of systemic self defence - deflection to keep us looking at the illusion instead of the reality.

shalafi, to politics in Lindsey Graham warns ‘accountability coming to Biden’ if Trump wins

So the state of New York went after Trump and scored 34 convictions? And this is somehow a federal/Presidential matter? Biden couldn’t interfere if he wanted to. States rights anyone?

Y’all libs need to get strapped and stand by. They’re ramping up to running trains. Think it can’t happen here?

4am,

Of course not! The trains don’t work here. /s

Mediocre_Bard,

We honestly don’t have the infrastructure to support an efficient genocide of liberal ideology due in large part to conservative politics. They defeated themselves.

JoMiran, to politics in America’s big problem is not Joe Biden, it’s the menace to democracy posed by Donald Trump
@JoMiran@lemmy.ml avatar

Don’t vote for the man, vote for the administration. The Trump administration will be evil incarnate and absolutely the end American democracy.

NateNate60,

Right, the options in this election are:

  1. Mildly senile and slightly incompetent old man
  2. Fascist
Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Do you think Trump 1 and Biden 2? Or did we forget about the Genocide thing again?

Just keep ignoring that elephant in the room. It’s not Fascism if you don’t believe Palestinians are human!

pezhore,
@pezhore@lemmy.ml avatar

Do you really believe fucking Trump as president will be better for Palestine? At least Biden (unsuccessfully) tried to get a cease fire going. Trump would probably nuke Palestine himself.

eran_morad,

deleted_by_moderator

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  • jordanlund,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

    Removed, ableist language.

    Linkerbaan,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m sorry I missed the part where Joe Biden who sent 24 Billion in weapons, actively supports israel with military intelligence, defends them against retaliation, supplies them with weapons by bypassing congress and using secret loopholes, is not complicit.

    Can you tell me more about Donald Trump though. I never knew that Biden’s Fascism was excused by the existence of Trump.

    You guys really care a lot about Palestine you’re all such experts on how Joe Biden is preventing the Genocide from happening there.

    nomous,

    And you all care so fucking much about Palestine now that it’s a convenient cudgel to beat someone with. You don’t care now and you didn’t care then you just want to score your little debate points from mommies basement.

    Fucking waste of space if you care so much go do something about it because no U.S. president is going to do anything.

    Linkerbaan,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    All that’s needed is people not denying Biden is doing Fascism already. Just be honest.

    Raising awareness for people that are in denial and sticking their head in the sand is what’s needed for Palestine.

    Or do you think Palestinians are going to be really happy with Biden getting another term without having made any concessions and fully backed israel through the entire Genocide?

    Clinicallydepressedpoochie,

    All that’s needed is people not denying Biden is doing Fascism already. Just be honest.

    Ok. Joe Biden’s policy on Palestine is disgraceful.

    What now?

    Did we fix it?

    Linkerbaan,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    Trumps policy on Palestine is disgraceful too.

    Did we fix Trump?

    Just be honest that’s all.

    nomous,

    Biden is doing Fascism already

    I’m not sure he is.

    Please define Fascism in the context that you believe Biden is doing. Be specific, I won’t engage with vaguery or hyperbole.

    Linkerbaan,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    Abusing presidential powers to be complicit in Genocide by sending weapons using loopholes in the same way Trump did when we all called him a Fascist for it.

    Surprising dissent on Genocide with violent policing.

    Calling anyone that doesn’t agree with Genocide anti-semitic.

    Censuring politicians that call Genocide Genocide.

    Banning anti -Genocide speeches such as “from the river to the sea”

    You all want to dance around Gaza so badly. But sadly you can’t “ignore that time Biden did Fascism, what other times did he do it?”

    nomous,

    You know genocide and fascism are different things right? Fascism has an actual meaning and it’s not “things I don’t like.”

    Linkerbaan,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    Oops you got examples of Fascism my bad.

    Fascism is Donald Trump. CNN told me that.

    OldWoodFrame,

    Fascism is not defined by selling arms to a country that committed a genocide. Trump did that too, but that’s not the definition.

    Linkerbaan,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    Fascism is defined by whatever arbitrary definition you can apply so only Donald Trump fits in it and Joe Biden doesn’t.

    Clinicallydepressedpoochie,

    deleted_by_moderator

  • Loading...
  • jordanlund,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

    Removed, ad hominem.

    pezhore,
    @pezhore@lemmy.ml avatar

    I unironically love a mod that’s active and on top of things. You’re doing the lord’s work, @jordanlund

    Clinicallydepressedpoochie,

    Seriously, I’m not even mad.

    jordanlund,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

    Other folks are just as active, I’m just more public about it for transparency reasons.

    jordanlund,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

    Fascism actually has a precise definition:

    www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

    “a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition”

    So breaking it down:

    “that exalts nation and often race above the individual” - Trump, not Biden.

    “centralized autocratic government” - Trump, not Biden (or any Democrat, really, “centralized” isn’t their thing).

    “dictatorial leader” - Literally Trump. apnews.com/…/trump-hannity-dictator-authoritarian…

    “severe economic and social regimentation” - I could see this one being argued “both sides”. The difference being Democrats want to use the regimentation to protect people and Republicans want to use it to oppress people.

    “forcible suppression of opposition” - Definitely Trump, not Biden.

    Linkerbaan,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    This is true if we just ignore every time Biden does these things.

    “centralized autocratic government” - Trump, not Biden (or any Democrat, really, “centralized” isn’t their thing).

    The Biden administration once again bypasses Congress on an emergency weapons sale to Israel

    The difference being Democrats want to use the regimentation to protect people and Republicans want to use it to oppress people.

    Biden intervenes in railroad contract to block strike

    forcible suppression of opposition” - Definitely Trump, not Biden.

    Biden stressed that the rule of law “must be upheld” hours after police violently dispersed peaceful protests at universities in Los Angeles and New York, arresting hundreds of students.

    NateNate60,

    Biden: I’m going to give billions of dollars to Israel to kill Palestinians

    Trump: I’m going to give billions of dollars to Israel to kill Palestinians and I’m going to egg them on while doing that and block other countries from helping

    Linkerbaan,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    Biden: I’m giving billions of dollars to Israel to kill Palestinians and am blocking other countries from helping

    Trump: I’m going to give billions of dollars to Israel to kill Palestinians and I’m going to egg them on while doing that and block other countries from helping

    FTFY.

    Colonel_Panic_,

    So many people keep arguing past each other on this because there are 2 truths and each side sees their 1 truth as the end-all.

    1. Genocide is bad. Biden isn’t doing enough to stop Israel. But, Trump would accelerate it. And also do more genocide here too.
    2. We have a FPTP voting system meaning the first candidate across the line wins, so you either vote for A or B. If you abstain from voting or vote 3rd party it does not make any difference whatsoever to the outcome because it is still who crosses the line first. So you have to decide which of the 2 you want, or which of the 2 you DON’T want. And vote accordingly.

    Everyone declaring “Genocide Joe” and voting 3rd party is missing the point that doing that could let Trump win. And that would be FAR worse.

    And everyone declaring “Blue no matter who” and demonizing the people that want the genocide to end are missing the point that our system is fucked and does not represent us and both candidates are bad. Both candidates are right wing and our country WANTS someone on the left that represents the people, but we simply don’t have that.

    Semi_Hemi_Demigod,
    @Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

    We have a FPTP voting system meaning the first candidate across the line wins, so you either vote for A or B.

    If you’re in a solidly blue or red state that math is a bit different.

    our country WANTS someone on the left that represents the people

    Your perception of the electorate is quite different from mine.

    disguy_ovahea, (edited )

    Trump wants Palestine eradicated and Israel to expand. He repealed the law against Israeli settlements on Palestinian territory.

    “What I said very plainly is get it over with, and let’s get back to peace and stop killing people. And that’s a very simple statement. Get it over with. They’ve got to finish what they finish. They have to get it done. Get it over with, and get it over with fast, because we have to, you have to get back to normalcy and peace,” Trump told The Hugh Hewitt Show.

    Trump noted, “They’ve got to finish what they started, and they’ve got to finish it fast, and we have to get on with life.”

    Trump continued arguing Israel had an issue with its public messaging and said, “Israel is absolutely losing the PR war.”

    “And the other thing is I hate, they put out tapes all the time. Every night, they’re releasing tapes of a building falling down. They shouldn’t be releasing tapes like that. They’re doing, that’s why they’re losing the PR war. They, Israel is absolutely losing the PR war,” Trump said.

    www.cnn.com/2024/04/04/politics/…/index.html

    HulkSmashBurgers,

    If the election were between trump and another sack of shit, I would vote for the non-human looking sack of shit.

    Biden may not be perfect, but he’s way better than a facist sack of shit.

    timewarp,
    @timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

    Let’s assume what you’re saying is true. Why has Biden’s administration ignored his own voters on the genocide taking place in Palestine? Why has his administration vetoed the UN council now 12 times since 2020 now relating to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? Why did Biden’s administration pressure Robert Kur to revise his report in his classified documents investigation saying that Biden’s poor memory wasn’t supported by facts? Why did his administration push through with him as a candidate and not work to find a different candidate before now?

    Instead I got Photoshopped images of Biden in sunglasses and a bunch of fake PR making it seem like Biden was as nimble as ever. You know what happened? I ended up becoming part of the Biden cult. After seeing his debate, what his administration is planning to do in 2024 is elder abuse. Biden needs to step aside immediately. I can’t believe people discussing anything else right now. You say democracy is on the line but his administration has made one terrible mistake after another. I’m sick of it. They want democracy then he can step down and put his support behind someone else. Otherwise I’m done with it. If his administration doesn’t act like democracy is on the line, then why should I?

    JoMiran,
    @JoMiran@lemmy.ml avatar

    If you do not vote, or vote for anyone other than whatever Democrat is on the ticket, Palestinian will be fully wiped out or forced to live in an open air prison the size of a postage stamp, Ukraine will be steam rolled over, Americans who are not straight, white and faux-Christian will be third tier citizens, and American democracy will be dead, forever. Go sell your bullshit to someone else. I have seen too much shit to fall for such a weak and obvious maneuver.

    timewarp,
    @timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah okay. Well 2016 happened where DNC did something similar which is why you ever got Trump. Now they’ve been up to the same tactics and you’ll get him again if Biden doesn’t step down. Go ahead and give yourself a big pat on the back and say… “I’m doing it. I’m helping Trump get reelected”

    JoMiran,
    @JoMiran@lemmy.ml avatar

    He should have made it clear that he would not seek a second term. Instead he pulled a RBG (she refused to retire when Obama asked her). We are now basically four months from election day and that ship has sailed. All we can do is vote D no matter what. Don’t confuse me doing what must be done with pride and “patting myself on the back”. His ego fucked us and now we have to deal with the mess…again. Thankfully, with the exception of their support for Israel’s genocidal campaign, his administration has been quite competent.

    blazera, to politics in America’s big problem is not Joe Biden, it’s the menace to democracy posed by Donald Trump
    @blazera@lemmy.world avatar

    Donald Trump being a menace to democracy was in Bidens lap at the very start of his term, rallying an attempt to violently overthrow the election. And Biden, the new head of the executive branch, the branch of enforcing the law, just did nothing about it. And nothing about his many crimes beforehand, the documented collusion with Russians, blackmailing Ukraine to interfere in the election, the obstruction of justice, the assassination of Epstein. Trump wasnt held accountable and it was Bidens job to hold him to account. And now here we are.

    rayyy,

    it was Bidens job to hold him to account

    It was the justice departments job.

    Ensign_Crab,

    Biden should have appointed someone better to head the DOJ, then.

    eran_morad,

    Idiotic comment on this, the day that the Supreme Cunts decided that the prez can do whatever the fuck he wants as long as it’s an “official act”.

    Not_mikey, to world in Byron Bay is to be stripped of its nudist beach – and naturists blame ‘conservative creep’

    These prudes would be terrified of San Francisco, whole city is clothing optional. No one ever really does it cause it’s too cold though saw a couple out today for pride. Sucks there banning it in a place that would actually be comfortable to do it.

    Hugh_Jeggs,

    Not sure if you mean -

    [It] sucks there, banning it in a place that would actually be comfortable to do it.

    Or

    You’re just too lazy to learn how to be coherent for the rest of us

    Nelots,

    “[It] sucks they’re banning…”

    Probably autocorrect or something like that, it’s not that hard to figure out.

    ji17br,

    Did you think you were being witty? Cause you’re just an asshole.

    Fal,
    @Fal@yiffit.net avatar

    San Francisco is not actually clothing optional. Full nudity is mostly illegal. You have to cover the genitals

    quafeinum,

    Have you been to SF? So many genitals

    jorp,

    have you been to Detroit? there’s robbery. guess it’s legal there

    Fal,
    @Fal@yiffit.net avatar

    I live there

    tal, (edited ) to world in Ukraine war briefing: Russia launches attacks on Kharkiv and Kyiv as Zelenskiy appeals for help
    @tal@lemmy.today avatar

    President Volodymyr Zelenskiy, in a post on Telegram, said Russia had used more than 800 glide bombs on Ukrainian targets in the past week. He issued a fresh plea in his nightly video address for better weapons systems. “The sooner the world helps us deal with the Russian combat aircraft launching these bombs, the sooner we can strike – justifiably strike – Russian military infrastructure … and the closer we will be to peace,” he said.

    Well, I don’t know what kind of counter he’s aiming for. There are basically two that I can think of:

    Long-range SAMs with sufficient range (and maybe mobility) to strike an aircraft launching glide bombs without being placed at risk. Ukraine’s has had some old long-range Warsaw Pact SAMs, but I don’t think that we’ve got more stores or production capacity. There are Patriots, but those are the only anti-ballistic-missile counter Ukraine presently has; using them as a counter for aircraft will cut into that. I suggested earlier that the SAMP/T systems that France sent, firing Aster missiles – which theoretically have an ABM capability, but at least earlier in the conflict, apparently weren’t intercepting them – might work, if the range is long enough.

    Aircraft armed with long-range air-to-air missiles.

    Russia’s newest glide bombs, according to this article, probably reach about 90 km.

    To use it to directly support the front, that’s about how close they’re going to have to get. Maybe closer if they want to strike behind the front.

    The US has the AIM-120. The latest version reaches 160–180 km according to WP. We have other long-range air-to-air missiles in development, but not in production today.

    en.wikipedia.org/…/Long-Range_Engagement_Weapon

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-260_JATM

    Europe has the Meteor:

    Maximum range: 200 km (110 nmi)+[4] No Escape Zone: 60 km (32 nmi)+[5]

    A Ukrainian aircraft firing those will need to do so at high altitude to leverage high range, use the aircraft’s fuel rather than the missile’s. That height will make it visible to Russian air defense, and the aircraft has to avoid getting hit by Russian SAMs.

    The longest-range SAM that I’m aware of that Russia has is an S-400 variant:

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-400_missile_system

    That can reach out 400 km with the right missile according to WP.

    Now, there are a number of ways one might measure range (from what height? Are these “minimum maximum” ranges or the actual limit? Is this a no-escape range or the furthest the missile can travel? What altitude can it reach at that point?) So I can’t say “this is the range that Ukraine’s going to need” exactly. But if Russia can legitimately reach out about twice as far as any air-to-air missile, it seems to me that that’s going to be a problem for air-to-air missile use unless countermeasures or stealth or similar can prevent Russia from making use of SAMs.

    Ukraine has been hitting S-400s with ATACMS, so those are, in turn, under threat.

    EDIT: Another twist is that Russia also has long-range air-to-air missiles, and any Ukrainian aircraft trying to hit a Russian attack aircraft with an air-to-air missile is going to have to worry about those coming back the other direction.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-37_(missile)

    150–400 km (93–249 mi) [1] Up to 200 kilometres (120 mi) (RVV-BD)

    Given that the longest-range variant there can reach out 400 km, that’s a pretty big buffer for Russia to work with. I believe that those missiles are intended more for hitting “large” aircraft, like bombers or the like, so a fighter might be a little better off, but I’d assume that something like an F-16 remains vulnerable.

    In a “Russia versus NATO” scenario, there are stealthy F-35s that that missile probably won’t do much good against. But Ukraine’s not using stealthy aircraft.

    Badeendje,
    @Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

    Long range atacms and maybe a few cruise missiles that can take out an airfield. In no way does Russia have any air defense put back that far behind the lines.

    I’m just surprised Ukraine has not resorted to attacks from an ocean faring ship up north yet.

    tal, (edited )
    @tal@lemmy.today avatar

    I don’t think that there’s any realistic chance that Ukraine can make use of ships in the Black Sea. Russia built their military to contest the US in the Pacific – they’ve got a lot of long-range anti-ship weapons. That surplus capacity is why they’ve been blowing anti-ship missiles on land attack. I’d be pretty confident that Russia can keep a Ukrainian warship from surviving in the Black Sea. Where Ukraine’s pulling off naval attacks, it’s using either small, very-low-profile boats or even-lower-profile, mostly-submerged USVs. Russia apparently doesn’t have the sensor capability to reliably pick those up (and I imagine that Ukrainian strikes on radars probably also complicate that).

    I have wondered about maybe Ukraine using larger UUVs that surface to launch a weapon. Such a UUV would have to be something that could be transported on a trailer, so there are some size limitations. But it might permit for a more-capable platform than the small USVs that are currently being used.

    I don’t know what kind of anti-submarine-warfare tools Russia has available in the Black Sea, but if they aren’t able to detect the existing USVs, I would assume that they aren’t going to be doing better with UUVs.

    EDIT: There’s a reference to a Ukrainian UUV project in progress here; it says that Russia is improving their ability to detect the existing Ukrainian USVs, so UUVs are becoming more important.

    Badeendje,
    @Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

    I was more referring to using a containership in the northern ice sea to launch a single wave of UAVs to destroy the Russian strategic bombers parked north of st petersburg. You know a one time strike option.

    Or use clandestine means to build Magura type drone boat in the Caspian sea and launch against a vessel. You know, even more asymmetric. Like what they do in Syria and Africa.

    tal,
    @tal@lemmy.today avatar

    northern ice sea…north of st petersburg.

    The Baltic Sea?

    Badeendje,
    @Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

    Arctic ocean. I did a literal translation from Dutch… which made sense but was wrong. Sry

    tal,
    @tal@lemmy.today avatar

    Ah, okay, gotcha.

    So, there are a couple issues:

    • I’d guess that Russia is able to prevent a surface ship from approaching Russia in any ocean unless someone can fight an offensive air and naval war to get control of that ocean.

    • I’m guessing (you said “container ship”) that the idea might be to use a concealed civilian vessel that then unloads some kind of surprise attack. While disguised military ships have been used to conduct armed warfare before, the last time I can think of an example was British Q-ships in World War I; I’m not sure that this is still legal.

    • Turkey has closed the Turkish Straits to warships due to the conflict, so technically no warships are supposed to pass, from either side. I’m I believe that it violates the convention governing this to either tell Turkey that the warship isn’t actually a warship or if Turkey knows but preferentially lets warships through. That being said, I guess theoretically Ukraine could assemble such an attack using a ship somewhere far away from Ukraine.

    • My guess is that if Ukraine had a lot of long-range cruise missiles, they’d probably be using them in their own theater of operations, as they’re pretty short on them.

    • I don’t think that Russia is using strategic bombers for the glide bombing attacks, so whatever the benefits of hitting them, I’m not sure that it would be a counter to the glide bomb attacks. kagis Yeah, this has the (much more numerous) Su-34 being used:

      On or just before Thursday, an air force Sukhoi Su-34 fighter-bomber lobbed a single FAB-3000 bomb with pop-out wings and satellite guidance at a multi-story building Russian intelligence had identified as a staging base for Ukrainian troops in Lyptsi, 10 miles north of Kharkiv in northern Ukraine.

    Badeendje,
    @Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

    Strategic bombers are used to launch the hypersonics at Ukraine. They are rarer so a high value target. If they can cut of kinzal at its roots.

    tal,
    @tal@lemmy.today avatar

    That’s true, though IIRC there are two planes, and I think that one of them – and the more-numerous one – is a variant of some multirole fighter.

    kagis

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-47M2_Kinzhal

    Launch platform

    • MiG-31BM/K
    • Tu-22M3M
    • Su-34 (reportedly)
    • Su‐57 (planned)

    Looks like two confirmed, another possible, another eventually (though I can’t imagine using the rare, intended-for-another-purposes Su-57 if they could use the others).

    MehBlah, to world in Byron Bay is to be stripped of its nudist beach – and naturists blame ‘conservative creep’

    Regressive’s like maga claim to be all about personal freedom but in truth they don’t want others to have any freedom they don’t approve of. Tolerance is not something they possess. Never listen to what regressives say just watch what those perverts do.

    Emmy,

    Regressives want the personal freedom to harass hurt and kill who they want. That’s what they’re talking about. They feel the walls finally around them saying they can’t. So they lash out, at anything.

    They are dangerous feral animals

    jjjalljs,

    Someone on the Internet put it nicely as “there must be outgroups the law binds but does not protect, and in groups the law protects but does not bind”. That’s all there is it to it. My people good and can do what they want, your people suck.

    Stripped down to this basic level, you can see it’s a pretty vile worldview.

    Freefall,

    I really need to start using the term “regressives”. It is so accurate!

    PrimeMinisterKeyes, to world in Byron Bay is to be stripped of its nudist beach – and naturists blame ‘conservative creep’

    First they came for the nudes, and I did not speak out. Because I was not nude.

    prole,

    Tobias?

    BananaTrifleViolin, to politics in America’s big problem is not Joe Biden, it’s the menace to democracy posed by Donald Trump

    Interesting headline - its disconnected from the content of the article. Most of it is about how broken the US electoral system is.

    The important point is that an electoral and political system that was designed to protect from the “tyranny of the majority” has instead created a system perpetuating the tyranny of the minority.

    Americans are indoctrinated to think theirs in the greatest country on earth from a very young age. But the political system is an absolute mess - the electoral college, the senate (which is totally skewed in favour of small states), the supreme court and politicised legal system, and the embedded 2 party system.

    Trump isn’t a threat to democracy. Democracy in the US has been dead for a long while now. It vaguely worked when there was a post war consensus but now it’s completely log jammed. And nobody has a plan to fix it because they can’t.

    Clinicallydepressedpoochie, (edited )

    What the ruling class wants you to believe is that they have the ability to subjugate everyone. The heart of power will always be with the people. Despite whatever military force or technology they think is under their control. They keep us glued to a screen and at odds with each other hoping we will never harness that power.

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