4-star generals side with Smith, tell SCOTUS Trump immunity claim is 'assault' on democracy

A distinguished group of retired four-star generals and admirals from the U.S. military have argued in a brief filed in the U.S. Supreme Court on Monday that Donald Trump’s claims of absolute “presidential immunity” from criminal prosecution tied to Jan. 6 is an “assault” on the “foundational commitments” underpinning democracy and if his argument is allowed to succeed before them later this month, it threatens “to subvert the careful balance between the executive and legislative branches struck in the Constitution.”

The 38-page amicus brief features 19 authors, all of them decorated retired admirals, generals or secretaries from branches of the U.S. Army, Navy and Air Force respectively. On April 25, the high court is poised to hear Trump’s question of immunity against prosecution for his alleged criminal conspiracy to subvert the results of the 2020 election. and according to the brief, these are arguments that should be approached with extreme caution.

paddirn,

How the fuck is this even before the Supreme Court? It shouldn’t have even been a question and it should’ve just been laughed out of Court when it was proposed. I can see SCOTUS ruling to give it to him, under the idea that Biden would be too principled to actually make use of that new power (instead of say ordering the assassination of Russian agents from a certain political party, like he should).

fluxion,

The second they rule in Trump’s favor I’m all for forcefully removing the SC and implementing massive ethics reform and judicial review. And no law shall stop it, because the President is above all reproach, including, apparently, a literal insurrection.

BorgDrone,

Biden should just announce that he will have Trump and the entire SC executed if they decide the president has absolute immunity.

thr0w4w4y2,

that definitely won’t escalate the situation at all

BorgDrone,

It would highlight how dumb the argument that the president has absolute immunity is, the SC would rule against it and that would be the end of it.

DragonTypeWyvern,

Oh no

Not fighting fascists before they’ve built their army into a juggernaut

grrgyle,

yeah maybe if we try appeasement for another generation they’ll leave us alone /s

VinnyDaCat,

Yeah, we’re past the point where this can be settled peaceful for certain anyways.

If Trump wins we’re in for a revenge tour, and if he loses there will be some form of major conflict. We have roughly 8 months to rip the band-aid off.

And before anyone tells me there won’t be a major conflict if he loses, let me remind you. He was trying to be discreet when he called his supporters up for the insurrection. All he wanted at the time was for them to delay the proceedings regarding the inauguration. The man is out of time regarding all the cases that have been building up against him, he doesn’t have it in him to keep this up. If/when he does not get the presidency he won’t be discreet, he will likely call for all out war.

FiniteBanjo,

The Supreme Court chose to rule on this after the courts in Colorado already ruled that the president was not an exception to the insurrection clause. They didn’t have to, they wanted to.

cumskin_genocide,

If Trump is such a danger then why aren’t you talking about oswalding him

Mrderisant,

Unfortunately doing so would make the magats go nuclear

profdc9,

It’s quite ominous that retired senior military officers need to say this. It suggests that if Trump is reelected, we could see widespread mutiny, because officers would refuse to accept orders for which they might be criminally liable. Even if SCOTUS makes Trump immune, it does not necessarily make anyone following his orders immune. Choosing between a committing a crime like murder, and another like insubordination, an officer might well choose insubordination.

blazeknave,

I think that for once, this is about ethics more than law.

JasonDJ,

So…we’re doomed?

If there’s one thing this court cares less about than law…it’s ethics.

blazeknave,

It’s okay… American imperial military generals somehow have more heart than SCOTUS in this timeline.

DragonTypeWyvern,

Why do I hear Palpatine laughing?

blazeknave,

Holy strange bedfellows Batman!

Maggoty,

They already did that last time. Trump tried to deploy the military to stop the BLM protests. The Joint Chiefs said no and sent out a memo reminding the entire force they swear oaths to the Constitution, not to Trump.

jkrtn,

If some of those generals gift an RV or fishing trip their words might have an influence on SCOTUS.

reverendsteveii,

the problem with telling scotus that this is an assault on democracy is that scotus is openly complicit in the assault on democracy. you can’t shame the shameless.

AquaTofana,

A group of retired Generals/Admirals are the ones who convinced Congress to repeal DADT back in 2011 so our LGBTQ+ brethren could openly serve.

I understand that the entire Government has changed since then, and it’s an entirely different branch of the Government that they’re petitioning, but fuck, this gives me hope.

These people do still have some sort of influence, and they’re attempting to use it for good. That makes me happy.

stoly,

Most notable, though, is that they face no jeopardy for speaking out. None of them could do this while serving.

AquaTofana,

This is true, to an extent. They can be much more vocal (publicly) than anyone currently serving, without fear of reprisal/loss of benefits.

However, these retired O’s definitely have enough money that should they want to abandon ship and move their family elsewhere, they absolutely could. They don’t have to get involved anymore, so I like that they’re taking the time to do so. It shows that they still gaf.

hamid, (edited )

deleted_by_author

    •
    AquaTofana,

    Or, lol, what’s really happening here, is that we’re all going “Oh yay, they’re using their influence for something good. That’s one more tool to fight the MAGAts with.”

    But I forgot, this is the internet and we should just be straight up pessimistic and ask “Why are they even bothering? Don’t they know it’s useless?!?!Silly Generals, Democracy is dead.”

    hamid, (edited )

    deleted_by_author

    •
    DragonTypeWyvern,

    en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Catalonia

    Even these guys?

    hamid, (edited )

    deleted_by_author

    •
    DragonTypeWyvern,

    No. The other liberal nations betrayed the Spanish Republic and Stalin wasn’t interested in supplying the Republican coalition for free (or without purging dissenters to Soviet hegemony) like Hitler and Mussolini were supplying the fascists.

    Personally, I just also don’t tend to criticize people for fighting the war against fascism just because they lost a battle.

    hamid, (edited )

    deleted_by_author

    •
    DragonTypeWyvern,

    Ah, yes, simply convince all Americans to be okay with the assassination of Trump without responding with violence themselves, so easy, so simple, definitely won’t create the war you’re on your high horse about avoiding lol

    Not that I disagree that Trump deserves a death sentence for crimes against democracy and the American people. I just think the war is unavoidable, regardless of who holds the reigns of the Republican Party. But, hey, maybe not.

    YeetPics,
    @YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

    Lolol you’re big mad, huh?

    YeetPics,
    @YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

    K thanks, bye.

    Burn_The_Right,

    Next up on Fox News: “How the U.S. Military is an Assault on Freedom!”

    Gradually_Adjusting,
    @Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world avatar

    The military industrial complex will now proceed to go broke, presumably. Checkmate fascists.

    SkyezOpen,

    Think we can trick conservatives into defunding the “woke” military?

    TokenBoomer,

    Lol

    Gradually_Adjusting,
    @Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world avatar

    If the generals keep disobeying and talking shit on Trump, there’s a gambler’s chance

    Maggoty,

    Probably, they’ve been running stories about how the military is too soft to fight a war because women and trans stuff. Which is just hilarious.

    RememberTheApollo_,

    So military people are telling conservatives the right thing to do?

    Absolutely gonna be ignored.

    CosmicCleric,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    Reagan must be doing cartwheels in his coffin just about now.

    UnderpantsWeevil,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    The claim is only a threat because the courts are so comically stacked towards his position.

    Americans don’t want to read the writing on the wall. Democracy already failed. We’ve simply refused to acknowledge we’re living in the rubble.

    CosmicCleric,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    Americans don’t want to read the writing on the wall. Democracy already failed. We’ve simply refused to acknowledge we’re living in the rubble.

    We’re not there yet, calm yourself. Your rhetoric doesn’t help.

    Having said that, wake the fuck up people, participate.

    UnderpantsWeevil,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    We’re not there yet

    Go check out states like Ohio and Wisconsin, where 40% of the voting base selects a supermajority of the legislature.

    My own Texas Senate has been similarly packed and stacked. And that’s before you get into the openly adversarial practices of state voting offices.

    We are not a democracy in any real sense. We are, at best, a Republic of regional demagogues and despots.

    Having said that, wake the fuck up people, participate.

    Lining up for another game of 3-card-monte because this time I can beat the dealer.

    CosmicCleric,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    You don’t think if people stop just standing by the sidelines watching, but instead participate, specifically pushing back on their Representatives and their Senators, asking for change, that things wouldn’t change? At all?

    Congress does what it does because we all sit on our asses and do nothing about it, except maybe go vote every once in awhile.

    They have no respect for us, because they don’t see us as participating in the system, only companies that give them money are seen in their eyes to be participating.

    “Democracy already failed.” is total bullshit, plain and simple, and it’s rhetoric that doesn’t help solve any problems.

    Participate.

    UnderpantsWeevil,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    Participate.

    texastribune.org/…/texas-voter-arrested-parole/

    texasattorneygeneral.gov/…/ag-paxton-san-antonio-…

    theguardian.com/…/pamela-moses-voting-rights-mist…

    The deck is stacked and the game is rigged.

    CosmicCleric,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    The deck is stacked and the game is rigged.

    First link is about someone on parole voting, when they can’t.

    Second link is about someone who got caught when trying to do fraudulent voting activities.

    The third link is a person with a prior felony conviction (that she pleaded guilty to), that is ineligible to seek office, trying to seek office/vote.

    Those are three one-offs, in the margins. None of those prevent the system from working overall.

    You’re grasping at straws.

    Participate.

    UnderpantsWeevil,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    You’re grasping at straws.

    I question whether you’ve ever actually participated in an election before.

    CosmicCleric,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    I question whether you’ve ever actually participated in an election before.

    Actually, I’ve voted in every election I was asked to.

    UnderpantsWeevil,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    Extreme Weasel Word Phrasing

    CosmicCleric,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    Extreme Weasel Word Phrasing

    How so?

    Makeitstop,

    The Wisconsin Supreme Court threw out the gerrymandered election maps. This happened only after an election shifted the balance of the court. That election had record breaking turnout, because the people were engaged and ready to fight for their rights.

    Democracy isn’t dead, but it is in danger. Giving up isn’t going to make things better.

    UnderpantsWeevil,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    The Wisconsin Supreme Court threw out the gerrymandered election maps.

    politico.com/…/wisconsin-gop-undoes-legislative-g…

    The lines put forward by Evers in court and passed by the Legislature Tuesday still slightly favor Republicans, according to an analysis from Marquette University Law School. But they are competitive overall and give both parties a chance to compete for a majority in both legislative chambers.

    One red wave, one red governor, and the state goes right back to where it started.

    The situation is untenable when one party works exhaustively to cheat on the first day in office and the other has to spend the next ten years cleaning up the mess.

    As of March, we’re seeing generic Republicans with a coin flip chance of winning statewide with a map that marginally favors their party.

    assassin_aragorn,

    One of the ways democracy falls is if we prematurely declare it fallen. Abortion referendums in deep red states have passed. Democrats have won in Alabama suburbs. Republicans could at best tie Democrats in economic conditions that heavily favored them.

    Democracy is succeeding. What we’re seeing is that it takes time to change things, because there is entrenched power. That’s slowly eroding away though, because they have gone too far against the people.

    We are in a position to completely eliminate entrenched Republican power over the next decade or so if we remain persistent, all through democracy. It will be slow, but it will work.

    UnderpantsWeevil,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    One of the ways democracy falls is if we prematurely declare it fallen

    You’ve got it backwards. Democracies fall because people assert the institutional rot can’t happen to their sacred soil and refuse to acknowledge their own internal failures.

    Democracy is succeeding.

    When barely half the eligible voting population bothers to participate? When seats are so heavily gerrymandered that 40% of the voting public can command a super majority in the legislature? When every election is (fairly or not) considered rigged or stolen going back to the Kennedy Administration?

    We are in a position to completely eliminate entrenched Republican power over the next decade

    We are not. Nobody on the Dem side of the ballot wants this. Party leadership wants a strong opposition. They even state as much publicly.

    CableMonster,

    Do you guys remember when a huge group of retired intelligence people told us the Hunter laptop had “all the hallmarks or russian disinformation”? Yeah, I dont care or trust what politically motivated people have to say about issues and neither should you.

    Enkrod,
    @Enkrod@feddit.de avatar

    The word “disinfornation” came from the press. The authors stated it “has all the classic earmarks of a Russian information operation”, adding:

    We want to emphasize that we do not know if the emails, provided to the New York Post by President Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani, are genuine or not and that we do not have evidence of Russian involvement—just that our experience makes us deeply suspicious that the Russian government played a significant role in this case.

    Politico (owned btw. by german far right Axel Springer LLC, Germanys Fox News) distorted the meaning of the letter:

    There was message distortion. All we were doing was raising a yellow flag that this could be Russian disinformation. Politico deliberately distorted what we said. It was clear in paragraph five

    CableMonster,

    Sure, but to anyone that was looking at it knew from the first week it was real, and so they needed to try to pretend it was not.

    AbidanYre,

    You had to be a pretty big chump to believe in the laptop to start with. Anybody who still believes any of it is so far up Trump’s ass they could chew his hamberders for him.

    CableMonster,

    Uh… its completely confirmed to be true… But sure man!

    surge_1,

    Doubling down on chump it looks like

    AbidanYre,

    That only thing confirmed from that whole fiasco is that Marge is thirsty for Hunter’s dong.

    CableMonster,

    Sorry dude, but it has been confirmed, I really dont know what else to tell you. You cant just change reality by denying it.

    T00l_shed,

    Source - trust me bro.

    CableMonster,

    Literally Tony Bobilinski at the time, and far right website… the washington post.

    T00l_shed,

    …wikipedia.org/…/Hunter_Biden_laptop_controversy

    As you can see the laptop was tampered with. It is, as with the buttery males story, a nothing burger.

    CableMonster,

    The problem is it cant be used in court because that is a doubt they put into it. But the emails on the laptop were confirmed (see the far right washington post), and the contents were also confirmed by Bobilinski. And if you care about actual corruption and the truth then you should watch him talk before congress(?) and literally accuse them of crimes.

    T00l_shed,

    No, it can’t be used in court because it’s bullshit. Some emails were confirmed but wildly different numbers each time. I do care about actual corruption and truth (hence why the laptop is BS, seriously did you even read where it said that?). The guy wanted the thing televised but the gop said no. Who’s afraid of the truth now?

    CableMonster,

    It was confirmed multiple times and literally by someone on the emails. You can keep making things up but I know what the facts are.

    YeetPics,
    @YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

    Stfu lib

    T00l_shed,

    Source - trust me bro. Lol.

    Whatever, you do you buckaroo.

    CableMonster,

    Thank you!

    blazeknave,

    Like pizzagate? When do you people embrace reality? It’s hard at first but you’ll feel better later.

    CableMonster,

    Sure dude.

    blazeknave,

    What?

    CableMonster,

    Huh?

    YeetPics,
    @YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

    Typical .ml

    blazeknave,

    Sure dude about what?

    YeetPics,
    @YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

    Real

    As in physical evidence of such a thing exists and can be reviewed and audited for authenticity?

    I’ll hold my breath while you provide such evidence 👌

    nova_ad_vitum,

    Yeah, I dont care or trust what politically motivated people have to say about issues and neither should you.

    So we should ignore what you have to say? You should have lead with that.

    Cosmicomical,

    You probably should stop ignoring the doctors and start taking your medications

    YaDownWitCPP,

    Seems unnecessary. There’s no way that SCOTUS would equate the Constitution’s description of Presidential immunity with the Sovereign immunity found in other countries.

    blazeknave,

    There’s no way scotus would repeal Roe.

    YaDownWitCPP,

    Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg even said that Roe was a faulty decision that was too far-reaching and too sweeping. It was a decision that was physician-centered rather than women-centered. Roe was always bound to be overturned.

    blazeknave,

    Username checks out. Fuck off.

    Asafum,

    I really can’t fucking believe he’s going to get away with everything. Their plan of running the clock is working and I have absolutely no doubt Trump will win the election allowing his AG dog to dutifully wipe everything away. Hell, seeing how this timeline is going I could even imagine his new AG opening an investigation into Biden that gets fast tracked somehow… We’ve all collectively somehow become even fucking dumber over the last 4 years that I could even be so sure Trump will win…

    It just blows my mind how someone so unbelievably stupid, someone so obviously corrupt in his personality, someone so abhorrent, could skate his way through the justice system. “Teflon Don” suits him. The only “positive” here are the civil suits that hit him where he cares most, his bank account.

    rdyoung, (edited )

    I get what you are saying but keep in mind that he has been losing his ability to stay composed for awhile now and it seems to be gaining speed. He is sundowning as we watch. I doubt he will be mentally capable of campaigning in a few months. He literally just told the world that Biden took a shit in the oval office, just when you think he can’t get more unhinged, he proves you wrong.

    I’m not sure where to find it now but some clinical psychologists or psychiatrists (iirc) gave a pretty decent breakdown of how trump is breaking down mentally.

    jaybone,

    When did he say Biden took a shit in the Oval Office? Lol

    AngryCommieKender,

    Looks like either Sunday or Monday.

    news18.com/…/donald-trump-claims-biden-soiled-whi…

    I maintain that this is Defunded Donnie’s way of admitting he had a diaper accident in the oval office

    TheBat,
    @TheBat@lemmy.world avatar

    Every accusation is a confession. That’s the Republican way.

    So how long before we hear about Trump having done it?

    Or watch him drop a turd while campaigning?

    rdyoung,

    Let’s not go there. I don’t want to see news stories of maggats shitting on cars because they had Biden or Bernie stickers or any others supporting sane and intelligent things.

    kablammy,

    I actually think the comment could be interpreted as Trump shit on the desk before leaving either to spite Biden (instead of leaving the traditional letter), or his declining mind allowed him to let slip an accident he himself had personally, and that “‘disgusting Biden’ is still using it, what a weirdo, I wouldn’t use it after I soiled it”.

    ripcord,
    @ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

    He told people Biden soiled itz and they laughed and clapped.

    I see no evidence this is a problem for him. His lack of cognition, morals, etc has never really been a problem before.

    Asafum,

    It’s exactly on brand for him and his followers.

    Hillary Clinton was right when she said half his supporters were a basket of deplorables. Those that got upset about that put themselves into that group.

    They love him because of the unhinged shit he says. He takes the hate that the two minutes hate Fox News cultivates and brings it to the White House and that’s exactly what they want.

    AbidanYre,

    If anything, Hillary was being too kind.

    jkrtn,

    She was actually off by 50%.

    rayyy,

    Biden soiled

    It is ALWAYS projection, always. Numerous people have said the orange liar soiled himself regularly.

    vinylshrapnel,

    Biden took a shit on the oval office

    Sounds like one of those projection accusation confessions.

    rdyoung,

    That’s likely exactly what it is.

    Passerby6497,

    Either that, or his nannies told him the presidential diapers are Oval Office brand.

    grue,

    This is 100% copium. The only thing that matters is actually convicting him and carrying out the criminal sentence. Until then, all this speculative BS is nothing but a distraction to provide cover for how badly all the leaders who aren’t already outright traitors are fucking this up.

    griD,

    some clinical psychologists or psychiatrists (iirc) gave a pretty decent breakdown of how trump is breaking down mentally.

    this one here?

    rdyoung,

    That looks like it.

    Corkyskog,

    All he needs to do is be able to stand up come election day, then they can just weekend at Bernies for the next 4 years.

    rdyoung,

    This should be a joke but with the gullibility of his most devoted followers and how far computer generated images and video have come, this is a real possibility.

    blazeknave,

    It’s the cult plus some normies voting against Biden. Don’t underestimate how little they give a shit. We thought it ended with grab em by the sexual assault parts.

    Ragnarok314159,

    I thought for sure it would end when he shit all over McCain for being a POW.

    Never let a Trump voter tell you they are pro military. Ever.

    blazeknave,

    They hate veterans so much. They treat them like future unhoused mentally ill and guide them down the path.

    assassin_aragorn,

    On the other hand, let this be motivation to make him lose in November. All his legal maneuvers will be moot at that point, and he’ll have some very angry judges to answer to.

    If Trump loses, the delays mean nothing. He will never enjoy a free day of peace ever again.

    NegativeLookBehind,
    @NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world avatar

    It was later discovered that Kavanaugh turned the document into a beer bong after claiming to have “totally read that shit” and filling it with 3 Miller Lites, at a local frat party

    ReallyActuallyFrankenstein,

    Well…It’s not like he was going to turn down a dare from Squee.

    TragicNotCute,
    @TragicNotCute@lemmy.world avatar

    bro you never turn down a dare from a brother. Bro

    ReallyActuallyFrankenstein,

    Truth. It’s like the time Clarence Thomas dared him to overturn Roe v. Wade. He was like, “Bro. Bro. You just watch me.”

    modifier,

    Especially a boof bro.

    dojan,
    @dojan@lemmy.world avatar

    I mean Trump and his allies goal is literally to dismantle democracy so that shouldn’t come as a surprise.

    GladiusB,
    @GladiusB@lemmy.world avatar

    Such a patriot. To celebrate the county that gave him a life that most will never even think about. By dismantling it completely.

    nomous,

    It doesn’t matter if it’s a flaming pile of shit, as long as you’re at the top.

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