Trans youth will no longer be prescribed puberty blockers, NHS England says

Trans youth will no longer be prescribed puberty blockers at NHS England gender identity clinics in a new “blow” to gender-affirming healthcare.

Puberty blockers are a type of medicine that prevent puberty from starting by blocking the hormones – like testosterone and oestrogen – that lead to puberty-related changes in the body. In the case of trans youth, this can delay unwanted physical changes like menstruation, breast growth, voice changes or facial hair growth.

On Tuesday (12 March), NHS England confirmed the medicine, which has been described as “life-saving” medical care for trans youth, will only be available to young people as part of clinical research trials.

The government described the move as a “landmark decision”, Sky News reported. It believed such a move is in the “best interests of the child”.

dugmeup,

Right wing conservatives can go pound sand. Talk about the government pushing itself between a doctor and patient care.

A landmark bullshit decision.

Buffalox,

I thought quackery was illegal, but apparently not when it’s *fundamentalists in politics.

*Fundamentalists as in fundamentally sociopaths.

toastus, (edited )

Whoever decided this can shove a cactus up somewhere.

Fuck you for hurting the most vulnerable;
disgusting decision by disgusting people.

NoIWontPickAName,

You might wanna rephrase your second sentence

harderian729,

Just needs a semi-colon instead of a comma.

toastus,

As a non native speaker the honest question, why?

Oszilloraptor,

Fuck you for hurting the most vulnerable, disgusting decision by disgusting people.

Kann übersetzt werden zu:

Fickt euch dafür die verletzlichste, abscheulichste Entscheidung von abscheulischen Leuten zu verletzen. (weird weil wörtliche Übersetzung; kann auch Beschädigen o.ä. nutzen. Geht mehr um den Sinn als das Wort)

Ist vermutlich gemeint:

Fickt euch dafür die Verletzlichsten zu verletzen; Abscheulische Entscheidung abscheulicher Leute.

toastus,

Ah danke, habs geändert.

Oszilloraptor, (edited )

That said I had to really try hard to deliberately missunderstand it.

But well, we seem to have the same native language and therefore maybe intuitively misstranslate it the same way? ^^

mathemachristian,

welcome to TERF island

Th4tGuyII,

God damn Tories. What do they know about “best interests of the child” that a doctor doesn't already know? Less than nothing is the answer.

If a young person is suffering from gender dysmorphia to the point of considering gender affirmation procedures, then I think it'd be in their best interest to not exacerbate that condition. Delaying the onset of puberty via puberty blockers until they're at the age where that can legally consent to such procedures isn't exactly novel.

Even if they eventually decide not to undergo those procedures, all you habr to do is take them off the blockers and they'd undergo puberty as normal. There's not all that much downside for an awful lot of upside for those in need.

OneLemmyMan, (edited )

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    maniclucky,

    Bullshit. Source or it didn’t happen.

    Kyrgizion,

    I’ve seen this claim many, many times, but I have yet to see my very first news article (from an actual source!) confirming it.

    Wisely, (edited )

    Even if there was a cherrypicked case out there, the vast majority of suicides are by those who are denied medical treatment and/or suffer discrimination.

    By forcing puberty, politicians are forcing these teens to face a future where for example they have to live as a woman with a male sounding voice or beard. Needing more expensive and painful treatments to partially reverse such as facial feminization surgery. That is life full of discrimination and didn’t have to be.

    harderian729,

    the vast majority of suicides are by those who are denied medical treatment and/or suffer discrimination.

    Do you have sources comparing the suicide rates of those denied trans treatment and those granted it at an early age?

    HopeOfTheGunblade,
    @HopeOfTheGunblade@kbin.social avatar

    In absolute fairness, this is what happened to David Reimer. It's how we know that you can't just force a gender on someone, even if you start when they're an infant. Conversion therapy never ever helps, it only ever hurts, and trying to force trans kids to be cis is as bad as trying to force cis kids to be trans. Let people pick their own goddamn paths in life, it's not that hard to keep your nose out of other people's business (not you, the busybodies who have to "save the children" from well researched medicine and medical professionals with their common sense >.<)

    brbposting,

    omg, RIP David Reimer

    HopeOfTheGunblade,
    @HopeOfTheGunblade@kbin.social avatar

    Yeah, it's fucking awful. John Money was incredibly fucked up as a person, and even with all of the terrible that's documented, there's at least hints that it was even worse; that the surgeon who fucked up the circumcision did so, so that Money had a twin pair for his study. Using a cauterizing iron in that way and at those settings certainly wasn't a standard procedure.

    wintermute_oregon,

    Reimer twins. It’s a well documented case. I suspect that is the case they are referencing.

    maniclucky,

    One case in the 60s/70s? That’s bad evidence. I assume you are clarifying and not supporting the person above.

    wintermute_oregon,

    Why don’t you calm down and not be hostile.

    You asked for a case. I gave you as well known case.

    If you had read the case, it was common practice and that is the study that ended it.

    maniclucky,

    Disinformation merits hostility. I’ll yield when I’m wrong.

    Because this case ended it, it is no longer true that doctors force transitioning, thus proving my assertion that the person above is full of shit. Show me a relevant case and I’ll be happy to change my mind. Some case in which a doctor forced transitioning and was not prosecuted or sued over it within the last decade. I’m flexible on the date.

    wintermute_oregon,

    If you had read the case, which you haven’t. You would have learned this was a common practice.

    You keep moving the goalpost. I was just responding to your inaccurate statement.

    maniclucky,

    Was. It was common practice. It is not relevant because the person above asserted that it is currently common practice. My goalposts are stationary and your evidence only provides historical context.

    wintermute_oregon,

    I never saw him say current. If missed where he said current, my apologizes. When I look at his statement, I still don’t see it.

    maniclucky,

    Context clues and elementary understanding of language. They stated, prior to mod removal, that they had seen doctors force transitioning. Present tense. This would imply that the person was alive in the 60s/70s (reasonable, though Lemmy’s demographics make that unusual). The more likely, and unprovable on the internet, truth is that the person is regurgitating misinformation.

    A quote from someone that quoted the person (incompletely it seems): “seen doctors force sex change to children that lead to the child killing themselves in adulthood”.

    This also does not address the inherent misleading portion of it, which is the thing that merits the outrage: cases from half a century ago are not a basis on which to inform people of wrongdoing in modern healthcare. Granted, I didn’t explicitly state that as a goal from the outset, but we’re cuddling up next to bad faith to assert that as unreasonable.

    wintermute_oregon,

    It’s possible they did based on age.

    If they are talking about currently, I would call BS just like you.

    maniclucky,

    That if smells of capitulation without agreement, but thank you in any case. I hope you have a nice day.

    wintermute_oregon,

    I think we are more in agreement than disagreement. Either you read too much into it or I didn’t read enough into it. Either way we both agree it isn’t a current issue.

    maniclucky,

    That’s fair and I would agree, and further guess that I’m reading too far.

    MxM111,
    @MxM111@kbin.social avatar

    Even assuming it is true,

    1. would that person kill themselves regardless or even earlier?
    2. doctors are people sure, but at least they have medical training, and supposed to focus on the interest of the patient, as opposed to politicians, who are focused on satisfying their constituents.
    OneLemmyMan,

    did i say we should allow politicians to choose? i swear most people here try to push their agenta one way or another. People replying saying things that dont exist in my comment. My reply was about letting each person choose their path when they are old enough to make that choice but it turned into fashion, countles stories of parents that want to have the “im progressive” stamp so they push their children to change gender, why not let them be? if they ask to change gender then you can talk about it and have specialists talk to the child to make sure that this is really what it wants, but letting doctors be the one to suggest it is crazy to me, if the child doesn’t initiate that conversation.

    NOT_RICK,
    @NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

    Good thing puberty blockers aren’t a fucking sex change. Even if your almost certainly bullshit comment was true, it still as relevant to puberty blockers as birth control pills are to abortion; related, but a completely different function.

    harderian729,

    Calm down. Why are you getting so mad because he made a rational comment?

    This fierce tribalism needs to stop.

    NOT_RICK,
    @NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

    There’s nothing tribal about calling out bullshit and there’s nothing rational about making shit up. Telling that you tone police me rather than refuting what I said, though.

    harderian729,

    Yeah, but you’re only getting upset because he said something rational that you didn’t like.

    Now you’re trying to pretend it doesn’t make sense because again, it’s something you don’t like.

    Why can’t you people argue in good faith? Is it because you’re tribalist?

    NOT_RICK, (edited )
    @NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

    Why can’t you people argue in good faith?

    First off, Hitchens’ razor.

    Besides that, physician heal thyself. Every interaction I’ve had with you has consisted of you asking me leading questions. You keep asking people that disagree with what seems to be your position to provide evidence to back their claims yet you’re perfectly happy to accept a false claim because it aligns with your views. If you were actually the paragon of objectivity you pretend to be you’d ask the guy above to backup his claim too. So, can you remind me who is tribal?

    Diotima,
    @Diotima@kbin.social avatar

    I've seen space vampires enslave circus clowns in a plot to corner the world's market on instant ramen, too.

    Source: Trust me bro.

    Diotima,
    @Diotima@kbin.social avatar

    I've seen space vampires enslave circus clowns in a plot to corner the world's market on instant ramen, too.

    Source: Trust me bro.

    4am,
    @4am@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m sure then you’ve also seen the basement of Cosmic Pizza

    hydroptic,

    seen doctors force sex change to children that lead to the child killing themselves in adulthood

    Why do transphobes lie all the fucking time? Like, is there something wrong with your brain preventing you from not lying?

    harderian729,

    Why do you people always argue in bad faith?

    Detransitioning is real and a lot of people end up regretting the decisions that you pressure them into making.

    NOT_RICK,
    @NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s a good thing that medical best practice is to put adolescents on reversible puberty blockers until they are adults at which point the adult can make decisions about their medical care, then.

    maniclucky, (edited )

    They are not referring to detransitioning (which is real though a minority to my understanding). They are referring to the blatant lie that doctors force patients to transition.

    Edit: He -> They. Feels really inappropriate to assume gender given the context.

    floofloof,

    Regret after Gender-affirmation Surgery: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis of Prevalence

    Results: A total of 27 studies, pooling 7928 transgender patients who underwent any type of GAS, were included. The pooled prevalence of regret after GAS was 1% (95% CI <1%–2%). Overall, 33% underwent transmasculine procedures and 67% transfemenine procedures. The prevalence of regret among patients undergoing transmasculine and transfemenine surgeries was <1% (IC <1%–<1%) and 1% (CI <1%–2%), respectively. A total of 77 patients regretted having had GAS. Twenty-eight had minor and 34 had major regret based on Pfäfflin’s regret classification. The majority had clear regret based on Kuiper and Cohen-Kettenis classification.

    Conclusions: Based on this review, there is an extremely low prevalence of regret in transgender patients after GAS.

    frezik,

    For additional context, here’s a study on the regret rate of hip and knee surgery:

    On analysis a significantly greater proportion of TKA [total knee replacement] patients reported moderate or severe (Mod/Sev) DR [17.1% (56/328)] compared to THA [total hip replacement] patients [4.8% (18/376)]. Conversely, a significantly reduced proportion of TKA patients reported having No DR [42.1% (138/328)] compared to THA patients [66.7% (251/376)]. On multivariate logistic regression analysis joint replacement type (TKA/THA) and change in Oxford score were significant predictors of DR with gender, age, BMI and ASA grade not significantly associated. TKA patients were more than twice as likely to have Mod/Sev DR compared THA patients (Odds Ratio = 2.33 (95% CI 1.24-4.39)). Patients with poorer improvements in pain and function 1-year post-operatively (measured by Oxford scores) reported greater levels of DR.

    Regret rate of gender affirming surgery is basically rounding error.

    feedum_sneedson,

    Well now I’m confused, because I’ve met a lot of people with knee replacements who were very happy with the results. All surgeries can and do have complications, so I’m very surprised the numbers are that low for SRS. It implies it goes perfectly almost every time.

    Laurentide,
    @Laurentide@pawb.social avatar

    It implies that living with gender dysphoria is so painful that people would rather have the surgical complications.

    feedum_sneedson,

    Arthritic knees and hips are not great either.

    andros_rex,

    Even people who regret their surgeries aren’t necessarily regretting that they had gender affirming care. Surgeries can go wrong and aren’t always predictable. They can change our relationships with our bodies. Regret isn’t always “I regret transitioning” - it can be “I don’t like the way my scars healed.”

    Team “no regrets” here. Right after I got out of surgery I woke up just enough to look down where them titties where and smiled.

    Lilith_the_serpent,

    You are so full of shit. Why do transphobes always insist transitioning is forced?

    What about when trans people are forced to not transition? Suicide rates go up.

    What happened to me when I was forced to conform to a cis gender role for 40 years? Denial, suicidal thoughts, drug addiction, and alcoholism. After I started hormone therapy, I completely lost all interest in drugs and alcohol, and I no longer consider suicide. I’m happy and I want to take care of myself. I became a productive member of society.

    There are about 1.5 million transgender people living in the US. 1% regret their decision and detransition. That is 15,000 people. And 0% of them were “pressured” into transitioning.

    hydroptic, (edited )

    Detransitioning is a different claim than doctors forcing children to transition you dumbass. Nobody’s saying detransitioning isn’t a thing

    OneLemmyMan,

    the guy was forced from his parents due to doctors advice

    OneLemmyMan,

    it was a documentary on tv about a guy that tried to detransition but for whatever reason was not happy with it

    solivine,
    @solivine@sopuli.xyz avatar

    Transition surgeries have among the lowest regret rates for any kind of surgery. They are life saving.

    harderian729,

    Where did you get this information?

    DesertCreosote,

    On the off chance that you’re actually asking, there have been studies that have shown the regret rate for transitioning is less than 1%.

    Here’s an article about a recent study which tracked people up to 23 years post-transition, showing median regret as 0 out of 100.

    Now, you might be thinking to yourself “but that’s just one study, with around 200 participants, and the results were so uniform it caused issues with the statistics. Maybe it’s wrong.” Well, here is a meta-analysis of 27 additional studies, with almost 8,000 participants, which also shows regret rates are <1%.

    Hope that helps.

    feedum_sneedson,

    Interesting, I can’t access the actual paper but on the face of it that’s quite strong evidence, isn’t it. But I’ve never had a problem with people undergoing elective SRS as adults.

    solivine,
    @solivine@sopuli.xyz avatar

    Thanks for responding to them and finding the sources, I find that exhausting with bad faith arguers.

    BaardFigur,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    solivine,
    @solivine@sopuli.xyz avatar

    Please read the other comment below that details the regret rate for transition related surgeries. Unfortunately my browser is unable to translate that article, but one bad case doesn’t not outweight the many, many good ones.

    Mouselemming,

    Puberty is a sex change forced on all children by their own hormones. Just because it matches the sex they were assigned at birth doesn’t mean it doesn’t force radical physical changes. It’s stressful even for cis kids, and can lead trans kids towards suicide.

    Blocking it postpones the permanent physical changes until the person is old enough to make a rational decision whether to have (less extreme needed) medical intervention to achieve a physical appearance that matches the sex they weren’t assigned at birth, or to stop taking the blockers and allow their assigned sexual characteristics to develop.

    Anyone who thinks doctors are pushing trans surgeries should be in favor of puberty blockers.

    feedum_sneedson,

    That’s a bit like saying life is forced on you by your conception and birth, though. It’s getting a bit metaphysical at that point.

    harderian729,

    Agreed. That’s a very rational take to have on these forums.

    Most people here get mad at you if you don’t show unwavering, blind support for their tribe.

    maniclucky,

    Big claims need big evidence. Source.

    otp,

    their tribe

    …you say, as you go around supporting the one unfounded comment from “your tribe” as you argue against every single other commenter who called out that BS comment.

    I think this “tribalism” thing you’re talking about is projection. You’re aligning with what you think is your “tribe” and arguing against the dozens of people with different viewpoints and opinions who just happen to disagree with that massively downvoted comment.

    Lilith_the_serpent,

    That is complete bullshit and you know it. What’s your source? Prove it or it didn’t happen.

    frostysauce,

    No you fucking haven’t.

    Clbull,

    Even if they eventually decide not to undergo those procedures, all you habr to do is take them off the blockers and they’d undergo puberty as normal. There’s not all that much downside for an awful lot of upside for those in need.

    Is that actually true? Do those medications actually permanently prevent puberty after a certain point?

    NoIWontPickAName,

    There are side effects last I looked, people like to pretend their aren’t, even fucking ibuprofen has side effects.

    So idk, it depends on how bad maybe?

    frezik,

    They have side effects. Permanent puberty block isn’t one of them. We’ve had these drugs on the market since the '80s, and they treat more than just trans youth. We have a pretty good idea on how puberty progresses with them.

    dana, (edited )

    Yes, there are side effects. They vary depending on the length of treatment (generally patients are not allowed to stay on them indefinitely to mitigate this) and the medication used, but puberty blockers have been used for ~40 years now and we have a good understanding of the risks. GnRH agonists are the most common type of puberty blocker used today, and the typical side effects are:

    • Hot flashes
    • Gynecomastia
    • Fatigue
    • Weight gain
    • Decreased libido and erectile function

    These side effects generally end once treatment stops, whether switching to hormone replacement therapy or stopping all gender-affirming treatment. These side effects are typical of low sex hormone levels in general, and are generally annoyances that can be managed rather than major risks that are likely to harm the patient long term. It’s also worth noting that some of these are seen as neutral or even positive to some patients - e.g. patients who were assigned male at birth and are interested in feminizing treatment often consider gynecomastia and decreased erectile function as positive effects.

    When puberty blockers are continued for longer periods of time, there are additional risks which grow with the duration of the treatment:

    • Reduced bone density, which can increase risk of or worsen osteoporosis
    • Metabolic issues, which can worsen weight gain or diabetes in particular
    • Having puberty delayed by any means tends to result in a child growing taller than they would otherwise

    These risks are more serious, which is why puberty blockers are not prescribed indefinitely. For gender affirming treatment, puberty blockers are generally prescribed for up to two or three years, depending on local regulations and the patient’s tolerance of the treatment. After this period, patients have the option of either continuing gender affirming treatment with hormone replacement therapy (so that they can experience a different puberty than the one typically associated with their birth sex), or stopping treatment and allowing puberty to run its course as usual.

    It’s also worth noting that puberty blockers are not considered in a vacuum - the risks are considered against the risk of allowing puberty to continue as usual. For children with gender dysphoria, puberty is often a severely traumatic experience. This can cause or worsen depression and suicidality, and can leave a transgender person with sexual characteristics they do not want and will have to treat later with riskier and/or more intense forms of treatment like surgery. The risks of puberty blockers are comparatively mild, which is part of why the side effects are regarded as safe for transgender patients.

    Lastly, I’ll also note that all of this treatment involves mental health professionals as well. While adults in some regions can choose to start gender affirming treatment on their own without needing a formal diagnosis, treatment for children requires much more work and dedication. Typically, a minor who wants to begin gender affirming treatment for gender dysphoria will need:

    • Consent from at least one parent
    • A diagnosis or letter of support from a mental health practitioner who’s seen them as a patient
    • A doctor or endocrinologist who can prescribe the medications
    • Ongoing check-ups while they’re undergoing treatment, to assess both their physical health (physical exams, blood work to check hormone levels and organ function) and mental health (sessions with a mental health practitioner to make sure that the treatment is actually benefiting their mental health and consistent with their identity)
    dana,

    No, barring some other condition, puberty resumes once you stop using puberty blockers. There are increasing risks of side effects when staying on puberty blockers for more than a couple years, so it’s usually a temporary measure to give children with gender dysphoria more time to explore their identity without subjecting them to the irreversible effects of puberty yet. As a result, doctors won’t allow a patient to stay on puberty blockers permanently (barring outliers where it would actually be safer to do so, e.g. because of cancer risk associated with sex hormones). There are two typical outcomes:

    1. The patient determines that they would like to transition medically, and will transition from puberty blockers to hormone replacement therapy according to their goals. This essentially allows them to replace the pubertal effects typically associated with their birth sex with something else depending on the regimen.
    2. The patient determines that they don’t want to transition medically, and stops puberty blockers without starting hormone replacement therapy. At this point, puberty begins/resumes on its own as usual.
    harderian729,

    Doctors can be manipulated to support an agenda, too.

    They used to classify homosexuality as a mental disorder, for example.

    They also used to recommend lobotomies as treatment for unruly wives.

    Do you think there are no instances of doctors being manipulated or corrupt in the current day? They of course have a profit incentive to get as much business as possible. It’s why you seen cosmetic surgeons lie through their teeth to manipulate vulnerable people into giving them money.

    floofloof,

    Doctors still have a lot more experience of what works than Conservative politicians do. And if you took “it must be impossible for any doctor ever to abuse this power for corrupt ends” as the standard for approving a treatment, no treatments would ever get approved.

    frezik,

    Doctors can be thrown in jail for supporting unnecessary care. How do I throw politicians in jail for blocking necessary care?

    ziixe,
    @ziixe@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Why don’t we look across the Channel and oh? What’s that? A shiny sharp guillotine? Don’t mind if we do

    Maggoty,

    Ah yes and it was famously the politicians that showed them the light. Not other doctors conducting research and presenting evidence.

    Politicians certainly never had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century of medicine.

    frezik,

    What you fail to take into account is the pink haired lesbian man haters dragging kids into alleyways and stopping them from having puberty. This is a totally real thing. A child can’t even walk to school without being accosted by pink haired lesbian man haters armed with syringes and a copy of a Dworkin book.

    Silentiea,

    Even if they eventually decide not to undergo those procedures, all you habr to do is take them off the blockers and they’d undergo puberty as normal. There’s not all that much downside for an awful lot of upside for those in need.

    Oh, don’t worry. Statistically, people who start puberty blockers almost always go on to receive hormone therapy as adults, so you don’t really have to worry about people deciding not to continue. It’s definitely* because of the medicine that they go on to do HRT, and not because the kids that are getting through the bullshit to actually start blockers are the kids who are almost 100% guaranteed to be trans. Don’t think too hard and it’ll all just go away.

    Hyperreality,

    Oh, great. Vulnerable children and desperate parents searching for prescription medication on the black market. What could go wrong?

    Mission accomplished.

    kirbowo808,
    @kirbowo808@kbin.social avatar

    Another Tory L as usual.

    Can’t wait till the day comes when they’re out of the gov for good.

    ClockworkOtter,

    You confident that blue Labour will reverse this policy?

    kirbowo808,
    @kirbowo808@kbin.social avatar

    Prob not tbh but since how bad everything is atm, any change at this point is better than none at this rate.

    gnutrino,

    So does this also apply to precocious puberty or is this purely a fuck you to trans people?

    Kalkaline,
    @Kalkaline@leminal.space avatar

    They’re going to have to pull an Alabama and do some matching legal and mental gymnastics.

    Telodzrum,

    It will be specific to diagnosis codes.

    mdwhite999,

    It’s specifically for gender identity clinics so only applies to trans kids

    Socsa,

    You see, every other problem in the UK has been solved, so now all they have left is fucking with people who just want to be happy in their own body.

    floofloof,

    Right-wingers pick on minorities precisely because they have no plans for how to improve life for people in general, and in fact not the slightest interest in doing so. If they were honest about that, no one would vote for them, so they have to invent scapegoats and distractions. Somehow it’s easy to persuade a lot of people that some entirely made up problem is the most urgent, such as some minority coming to destroy their “way of life”, and thereby distract them from all the actual problems you have caused for them.

    Right wing politics is always privileged sociopaths duping the gullible and ignorant.

    520,

    Just when I though the UK couldn't disappoint any further.

    harderian729,

    I wonder what the statistics are of “trans youth” figuring out they’re actually not trans as they get older.

    thesporkeffect,

    I was going to downvote and move on, but instead…

    I have family and friends that are trans, so I have been able to kind of follow their outcomes over the years.

    1. Human gender identity and sexuality does seem to fluctuate somewhat, but it doesn’t seem to me to be random. Some people fully identify as one gender but like to perform as a different one. Other people don’t vary at all. In cases where people “change their mind”, it’s usually because they get discouraged about being able to successfully transition, or they experience severe harassment/workplace discrimination. Just in my anecdotal experience, it’s never because they just randomly decide they no longer want to be trans
    2. No one is getting permanent gender affirmation treatment until they are old enough to know and have been in discussions with doctors for years. I’m sure there are exceptions where some poor 5 year olds parent(s) treated them without medical oversight but it’s not common and no one wants this.
    homoludens,

    So you don’t have to wonder anymore: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexual#Regrets_and_det…

    Ultraviolet,

    Extremely uncommon. But on the off chance it happens, they just stop taking the puberty blockers and everything proceeds as normal.

    Betch,
    @Betch@lemmy.world avatar

    Basically non-existant but of course when it does happen it gets repeated over and over again. The main reason why anybody detransitions is because of how they get treated during their transition.

    wintermute_oregon,

    About 80% historically. The studies are all over the place. It is mostly resolved at puberty.

    trashgirlfriend,

    This is not only wrong but directly the opposite of the truth

    wintermute_oregon,

    That is documented in studies.

    pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21216800/

    trashgirlfriend,

    Is that the “people who didn’t contact us back are obviously detransitioning” study?

    wintermute_oregon,

    It obvious you’re not trying to have serious conversation since you didn’t read the study and are conflating detransitioning with people who outgrow it. If you don’t understand a topic well enough to talk about it then don’t. I’m done

    NOT_RICK,
    @NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

    didn’t read the study

    It’s behind a paywall…

    FluffyPotato,

    Not in that study. The link you provided only has the abstract but it’s not even about how common detransitioning is.

    It has a sample size of 25 so it couldn’t even draw an average with that but according to the study it’s goal seems to be to document the motives for transitioning for people who go on to transition and the ones who don’t.

    chetradley,

    It’s also the worst type of wrong: the type that has the potential to seriously harm people. Hopefully they retract it instead of continuing to double down.

    Tattorack,
    @Tattorack@lemmy.world avatar

    I take it you have a source you can link to?

    chetradley,

    I’m assuming you’re asking in good faith. I found this type of question to be especially controversial due to the legislation against gender-affirming care, especially puberty blockers. In researching further:

    As others have stated, cases where permanent gender-affirming care was given, such as HRT (hormone therapy) and GRS (genital reconfiguration surgery), instances of regret are incredibly rare, and almost always predicated by lack of support for the individual. They are far outnumbered by instances of trans people undergoing puberty incompatible with their gender, which is itself damaging and irreversible.

    The type of care discussed in this article, GnRH (puberty blockers), has been shown to not have long term consequences, and is only used to delay puberty and the potential long term effects, giving them enough time to make an informed decision about their transition. From the Mayo Clinic:

    GnRH analogues don’t cause permanent physical changes. Instead, they pause puberty. That offers a chance to explore gender identity. It also gives youth and their families time to plan for the psychological, medical, developmental, social and legal issues that may lie ahead…

    When a person stops taking GnRH analogues, puberty starts again.

    Mouselemming,

    Time to start some really large clinical trials.

    Which wouldn’t be a bad idea anyway, tracking long-term outcomes.

    frezik,

    GnRH was discovered in 1971, and has been available since the '80s. We have a pretty good idea of their long term effects. There could be more about effects on transgender youth in particular, but everything done so far shows it’s safe.

    Jax,

    I’m reading about migraines, joint pain, hot flashes/sweating, decreased libido (which I would expect to take place during treatment) persisting for months after discontinuing use of GnRH. I’m also reading that it can worsen diabetes and osteoporosis?

    Idk, to say that it’s without risk is false I think.

    aurelian,
    @aurelian@lemmy.ml avatar

    How many of these side effects could just be the result of starting puberty after stopping the medication?

    Jax,

    I genuinely don’t know, but is osteoporosis common as a result of puberty?

    Edit:

    later puberty was linked to lower bone mineral density, and that both are risk factors for osteoporosis

    aurelian,
    @aurelian@lemmy.ml avatar

    Also a risk when taking birth control, the question is how severe and can you recover after completing puberty.

    Jax,

    Idk how I feel about kids taking birth control either, is that a normal thing??

    frostysauce,

    If you don’t want kids getting pregnant, yes.

    JasonDJ,

    Wait you mean they have to start taking hormonal birth control before they start having sex?

    Next you’re going to tell me they should get the HPV vaccine before they start having sex too!

    frostysauce,

    😯

    Jax,

    My point is moreso that kids shouldn’t be having sex, but sure yeah. Read into it guys.

    JasonDJ,

    My apologies that you couldn’t get laid in high school.

    Jax, (edited )

    …

    So you’re either suggesting that 12 year olds should be fucking high schoolers, or you’re just too dumb to think about what you said.

    I’ll give you a few minutes.

    Jax,

    I mean I don’t, but more because I don’t like the thought of kids having sex.

    dana,

    You can’t stop people from having sex, so it’s best to give them the education and healthcare necessary to reduce risks.

    Jax,

    I don’t disagree with that. The idea of high schoolers fucking 12 year olds will never sit well with me but sure, it’s probably best they don’t get pregnant as a result of it.

    aurelian,
    @aurelian@lemmy.ml avatar

    Ah I was referring to it as a side effect of birth control in adults. But birth control for ones that have gone through puberty is definitely better than the possibly deadly side effects of child birth and pregnancy.

    SeaJ,

    Safe does not mean no side effects. Those first things would still absolutely qualify it as safe. Those last two you mention seem to be inconclusive by the way you worded it.

    Jax,

    I word it this way because I’m not an expert, I was reading through a few studies I found on Google and am no way qualified to weigh in on this beyond a cursory glance.

    That being said, I’ve heard migraines be described similarly to torture. We can agree to disagree as to whether or not that’s safe (the effects of chronic pain are well documented).

    Also

    Prolonged treatment with Gonadotropin-Releasing Hormone (GnRH) agonists is known to induce bone loss among prostate cancer patients. However, evidence on the skeletal effects of GnRH antagonists is relatively less well-known. This review aims to examine the effects of GnRH antagonists on bone health. GnRH antagonists are an effective treatment for hormone-dependent conditions, such as advanced prostate cancer and endometriosis. They induce a competitive and reversible GnRH-receptor blockage, thereby suppressing the release of gonadotropins and sex hormones. The sex hormone ablation results in undesirable side effects, including accelerated bone loss. In animal studies, treatment with GnRH antagonists is reported to cause deterioration of bone microstructure. Human clinical trials revealed significant bone loss at the spine, hip and femur in patients treated with GnRH antagonists. Thus, osteoporosis and the resultant fragility fractures pose a significant impact on health and quality of life of GnRH antagonist users. Thus, early preventive measures of bone loss are critical in preventing fractures and its associated morbidity in these patients.

    The abstract from this www.eurekaselect.com/article/112477

    There are certainly other factors to consider, GnRH is used to treat prostate cancer if I’m not mistaken. I have no idea what would happen in an AFAB, and truth be told I’m not going that deep. I don’t think anyone should be telling anyone what they can or can’t put in/do with their bodies, but I’m not sure what to believe about the risk. Reading this would certainly make me second guess taking them considering my family history of arthritis.

    🤷‍♂️ idk mane

    prole,

    Yeah, you don’t know… It’s really not what it seems though, and it’s not actually about starting with a conclusion (we shouldn’t be treating trans kids) and then only glomming onto whatever scraps you can find that might indicate that your worldview is correct, while simply ignoring that mountains of evidence to the contrary.

    Definitely not that. You’re just asking questions! And it’s just a coincidence that every time someone tells you why you’re wrong, or asks you for more detail about your arguments, you resort to the whole, “I don’t know, I’m not an expert.” Yeah no shit.

    Jax, (edited )

    So you just didn’t read the part where I said “we shouldn’t be telling people what they can or can’t put in their bodies”, huh?

    My advice to you is to stop letting your emotions dictate your words.

    Edit: oh yeah, after re-reading what I wrote you definitely rage typed this response. Do better.

    Icaria,

    Do yourself a favour and don’t read the possible side effects on the back of the box of paracetamol you bought from the supermarket.

    Jax,

    Yeah I actually do my utmost to avoid taking Acetaminophen.

    Gamoc,

    It’s been around since the 80s, we already know long term outcomes.

    Silentiea,

    Um, excuse me, who said 40 years was long enough? If we don’t have trials that show how people receiving these drugs turned out all the way until they died then we don’t really have long term trials, do we?

    /s

    It’s such a fucking cop out. Nothing will ever be good enough for some people.

    drmeanfeel,

    All right wingers want for Christmas is increased suicidality of anyone unlike themselves

    Snapz,

    Or probably more accurately if you look at right wing scandals, people that think similarly to them but are brave enough to live their truth and not try to hide behind a bible and pay their reality away.

    Conservatives are cowards. They mainline fear 24/7, they feel list without it.

    Dasus,

    Conservatives are cowards. They mainline fear 24/7, they feel list without it.

    Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

    Mr_Smiley,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    MetaCubed,

    I guess ill be the one to bite.

    How do you consider this good news? All scientific literature indicates that prescribing puberty blockers to trans youth has a large benefit to the state of their current and future mental health, while also causing no harm as once they stop taking them, if they dont further transition, their regular puberty takes over with no decrease in how much they mentally and physically develop (dont forget, these are also regularly prescribed to cis kids too)

    Gigan,
    @Gigan@lemmy.world avatar

    Please link to all relevant scientific literature. Otherwise I’m going to assume you’re just spouting talking points out of your ass because this stuff hasn’t been studied as extensively as you claim.

    frostysauce,

    Please do all the research for me…

    Tattorack,
    @Tattorack@lemmy.world avatar

    The person who makes the claim is responsible for backing it up. So yes, if you’re going to make a going you’re going to do all the research.

    Asking for the relevant scientific backing is a perfectly reasonable thing to ask.

    frostysauce,

    But they asked for all scientific research.

    crapwittyname,

    The second part of what you say (puberty takes over as soon as the blockers are stopped) is not, as far as I’m aware, established. There are huge questions over this. First off, if I decide to come off puberty blockers aged 30, will I then go through puberty? If so, how different will it be to a normal puberty? If not, how long do I take puberty blockers for until I’ve bypassed my puberty? Can we quantify or qualify the potential harms inherent in the treatment? There’re too many unknowns and not enough evidence to support this statement you’ve made. I’ve seen it made before which is why I looked into it.
    I’m not trans myself, but some of the people I love are/were. I love them and I want them to thrive, which is why I’m concerned about the enthusiasm for a seemingly magic bullet which I think has the potential to do a lot of harm if applied without being properly understood.

    throwwyacc,

    I believe the idea of a puberty blocker is to block puberty until 18 pretty much, or early 20s. Then as that person is an adult they can choose to transition, by going through hrt, which is more effective as they haven’t experienced any puberty yet Or they can choose to stop taking the blockers and go through puberty as they would have before

    crapwittyname,

    Thanks for that.
    Annoyingly though I’m getting down votes for expressing a sincerely-held and reasonable concern, so that prevents me from discussing it any further. This topic is unnecessarily toxic online.

    throwwyacc,

    I agree it’s a very charged topic. And tricky to talk about in a lot of circles without being hand waved as a bigot

    It’s understandable though as there are genuinely some people that wouldn’t change their opinion regardless of the research, on both sides mind you

    crapwittyname,

    It’s been a while since I deep dived on this so I will have to go back and have a look at what’s new when I have time.

    Adanisi,
    @Adanisi@lemmy.zip avatar

    Nobody is prescribing blockers for decades.

    MetaCubed,

    What the other user said is correct. Generally puberty blocks are limited to use during adolescence, with use being discontinued in the very early 20’s at the latest. They are a measure to buy time for a person to meet an age of greater maturity so they can make the decision to further transition medically or hormonally. They are not intended to remove sex hormones from the body forever (much to my personal dismay)

    crapwittyname,

    Cheers. I’ll certainly look into that. I’ve not made up my mind (until the medical consensus does), and I’m coming at this from an angle of wanting trans people to have an equal quality of life (and average lifespan) with cis people. Believe it or not.

    Laurentide,
    @Laurentide@pawb.social avatar

    The medical consensus already exists. This isn’t some experimental drug; puberty blockers have been widely prescribed to children for decades. We know how they work, we know they are generally safe, and we know that blocking access to them will result in needless suffering and death.

    Here are the “huge questions” you should really be asking:

    If these drugs are so dangerous, why are people only bringing it up now and not sometime in the 40 years since they entered widespread usage?

    Why are people suddenly claiming that a drug we’ve been using for decades has “too many unknowns” and “not enough evidence” for its safety?

    If all of this controversy is really genuine, and not the result of a moral panic rooted in bigotry, then why is nobody proposing a ban on puberty blockers for cisgender children? How can they be “dangerous” and “untested” for one group of children but safe and effective for a different group of children when both groups are taking them for the same purpose (to delay puberty)?

    If you really care about the welfare of trans people, then you should support giving us the healthcare that we and our doctors say we need.

    crapwittyname,

    If you really care about the welfare of trans people, then you should support giving us the healthcare that we and our doctors say we need.

    I do. And with due respect, you’re just an anonymous poster on an internet forum. Your opinions necessarily carry zero weight. That’s nothing personal because I don’t know you, and I won’t believe your assertions, because that’s not how this works.

    Shotgun_Alice,

    They’re a troll, I’ve seen their account in other threads. If you look at their account they have all down votes. Like they’re trying to collect as many downvotes as they can.

    BilboBargains,

    It’s all part of the NHS War On Mental Health. The plan is remove treatments that conservatives don’t believe in because they can’t see them. They will take those savings and use them to extend the lives of terminally ill people in persistent vegetative states because life is sacred and needs to be protracted and painful.

    afraid_of_zombies,

    Great Britain should be renamed as Terf Island. Make it descriptive.

    MyFairJulia,
    @MyFairJulia@lemmy.world avatar

    Nah, they prefer prescriptivism. Actually, Terf Island still makes sense from that lens.

    I’m not sure, but there’s a descriptivism/prescriptivism joke in there somewhere.

    Cosmicomical,

    This has nothing to do with the will of the people

    afraid_of_zombies,

    Sure. Voting isn’t a thing in the UK

    Cosmicomical,

    You probably wanted to be ironic, but the irony in this case is misplaced :D

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