All FFLs are required to run a background check by federal law, the ATF will absolutely destroy anyone who doesn’t.
Private sales are private, it’s not a loophole, it’s a compromise made when the law was established.
Sometimes there are private sellers at gun shows, however, a ton of regulation applies.
It is a felony to sell a firearm to prohibited persons.
You can’t just sell guns and call it private. If you’re selling more than a few guns from a private collection you are required to obtain an FFL. The ATF is happy to ram the law up anyone’s ass who is in violation.
Please try to understand the actuality before making assertions, thank you.
I believe you’re misstating one thing if I remember the law last time I read it: It is a felony to knowingly sell a firearm to prohibited persons.
If you aren’t bound to the FFL requirements you are not obligated to ask if the person is in anyway prohibited from buying a firearm, and what you don’t know or ask keeps you free from jeopardy.
Because shit like this is done so that extremist right-wing para-military groups that by law should not be able to buy guns can buy guns.
Buy guns. Defend yourself and your family from authoritarians and fascists that have a large group of Trump-appointed government officials protecting them.
All the book burning banning, LGBTQ+ oppression, the violent student protest crackdowns, the oppressive surveillence laws masqueraded as “protecting children” flying in the face of the Constitution aren’t just for the luls. Each are a step in a checklist that ends in law-protected mass-murder.
It’s not even just a Trump judge in the 5th circuit, it’s one of the judges whose name avid newsreaders will recognize for their string of bad political judgements.
My guess would be dealers and companies covering their asses just in case but maybe not required? I know the sporting goods store I used to work at did background checks on every single sale, and that’s deep in the heart of Texas where people think you just need cash in hand and walk out with a Glock.
Sometimes referred to as the Brady bill loophole,[9] the Brady law loophole,[10] the gun law loophole,[11] or the private sale loophole,[12][13][14] the term refers to a perceived gap in laws that address what types of sales and transfers of firearms require records and or background checks, such as the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.[15] Private parties are not legally required by federal law to: ask for identification, complete any forms, or keep any sales records, as long as the sale is not made in interstate commerce (across state lines) and does not fall under purview of the National Firearms Act. In addition to federal legislation, firearm laws vary by state.[16]
I am not a lawyer. I do not sell firearms.
The gist I get is that this opens up enough loopholes to permit unlicensed mules/fences on either side of the transaction. Depending on what political leanings and circumstances are in play, this legal framework might actually encourage that behavior.
It’s not a loophole, it’s a private sale exception. A loophole would be an unintended result, but private sales have were intentionally exempted from background checks.
Anyway, the problem isn’t that private sales don’t require background checks, it’s that some people are running businesses pretending to be private sellers. Those are the people the Biden administration is trying to target, not random people selling off a few old guns from their private collection.
Sporting goods stores absolutely need them. Licensed firearms dealers at shows absolutely need them. Those are not the issue because according to the Brady Act, if a vendor is a federally licensed firearms dealer (FFL), they are required to perform a background check prior to completing the sale of the firearm.
Speaking purely of Texas because that’s where I know things, the issue is that there are some (quite a few) shows that allow “private collectors” to sell at the shows and that’s perfectly legal. Even if they don’t technically allow it there are folks who walk around shows with a card so if they see you are interested in a certain firearm they’ll try to sell you one from their “collection”. These private collectors have loads of inventory and contacts with other private collectors so they can point you to their friend and get a kickback or buy one off their friend and immediately sell it to you. So technically it’s a private sale which does not require a background check but these people are definitely running a business in all but name.
It’s estimated that in Texas that somewhere between 25-50% of sales from gun shows currently constitute private sales. That’s a wide range because these private sellers are not required to report or record their sales.
I’ve been to gun shows, the only way you’re buying one is from another private person who’s there. No one with a table is selling one without a nics check
The majority of gun shows around here, 75% of the tables are private sales and not FFL so no check is required or done. A few ask to see an iD to make sure you are local to the state, but most do not. I’m sure it varies by region but in many areas it seems to be common practice.
However, I also am in the heart of Texas and have been with people that went to a gunshow with cash and walked out specifically with a glock. They sold it to him unassembled but they aren’t that hard to put together.
As the other person mentioned, I was specifically asking about the legality more if it was possible.
I do appreciate the insight though and must say I’ll never not find it odd that you call people aliens.
Would an American living abroad call themselves an alien? Much like people in my home of the UK would call people immigrants but the second they move abroad they’re suddenly expats.
In practical (non legal) terms possibly if it was an actual private party and not a licensed dealer.
Alien is definitely a unique way of putting it. I guess it makes sense in that they are “alien to the nation”. But If I were to ever be forced to move to a different country I’d probably go by ex-pat.
Although I’d say we have more of a culture (increasingly so) of acknowledging immigrants as Americans first. Probably due to the whole melting pot thing. My view of it is anyone who immigrate to the US is an American. But if I moved to another country, like Japan, I don’t think they’d consider me Japanese.
Also that reminds me alien ≠ immigrant. Aliens would be people in the country either temporarily or illegally. Someone who got a green card by marrying an American wouldn’t be an alien for example. If you do the whole immigration thing you’re just an American not an alien.
Now this is going to sound more and more like this is my intention, but I’m honestly just a curious dude.
I think you could get it home through the mail no? Properly wrapped. Like they ain’t scanning all packages otherwise I’d have had more drug shipments blocked back when I used to order on the DarkWeb markets.
You’d have to be pretty stupid to try mailing it. Shipping of firearms is heavily regulated. The import and export even more so. You’d probably have to commit fraud by declaring that it’s something other than a firearm.
They don’t scan every package but do scan a lot. I’d be surprised if they don’t have heuristics based on other aspects—like weight and size—to help them decide which to scan.
I’m sure it depends on the country. Here in Canada, you are gambling between safely importing an illegal firearm vs. an indictable offense which can lead to three years in jail (for the first gun). And that’s assuming the firearm is otherwise legal in Canada.
Obviously it happens - most handguns used in crimes in Canada are illegally smuggled in from the US. Just understand though, that you’d be setting yourself up for a world of hurt.
Who cares what you’ve seen? Nobody is interested in the pinkie promises of the pro-gun community – they want actual regulations with actual enforcement but every step of the way, corporate interests and useful idiots are there to block them.
Background checks are optional. Gun safety is optional. This is what the pro-gun community insists on time and time again.
Except no. Background checks by FFLs are required. There is no gun show loophole. There is a private sale loophole (which is sometimes exploited at gun shows, but is not exclusive to them). This confusion in terminology is pointing to the wrong problem.
If you want to make effective regulations, then you need to understand what regulations already exist, how guns work, and how loopholes are exploited. Otherwise, you get another AWB that bans a bunch of cosmetic features that really don’t matter.
Semantic bullshit designed to drag out the conversation instead of addressing the problem. Nobody has gloves in their glove compartment but everybody knows what the glove compartment is.
Multiple attempts have been made to close this loophole and have been blocked by the pro-gun community, rendering background checks optional – if you don’t want your background checked, buy privately.
If you want to make effective regulations, then you need to understand what regulations already exist, how guns work, and how loopholes are exploited.
There is no gun control legislation that the pro-gun crowd will support. It doesn’t matter how minor, or how perfectly written.
Otherwise, you get another AWB that bans a bunch of cosmetic features that really don’t matter.
No problem, we’ll just ban all sales of semi-automatic weapons and firearms under a certain length (such as revolvers). After 20+ years, it’s clear the pro-gun crowd has no solution.
You don’t have to convince the pro-gun crowd. You have to convince a political majority. Starting that fight without knowing what you’re talking about matters.
I just have to wait. One day, the millions of school children that Republicans, gun owners and the gun lobby sold out will have to send their own children to school.
From my understanding as a general citizen, who owns several firearms but purchased them all from stores, and has done some research but not a lot…
A license is not required for most firearms and many/most states don’t require registering firearms at all. Unless you’re getting into things that require special federal licenses.
Gun shows are a massive loophole in existing background check requirements for purchasing from stores, because sales there are instead classified as private sales. Even if you’re purchasing from a business at the show. And private sales aren’t required to run background checks. No expectation for an individual selling a firearm to have to pay to run a check on who they are selling to, so no requirement for private sales.
OK so if I understand you correctly, at a gun show, you can buy a gun as if it was a piece of candy! No check, no registration no nothing. I’m sorry if it’s a stupid question, but this seems pretty crazy to me.
NICS checks are background checks, when people fill out a Form 4473 in a gun store that is for the NICS check. They are required on all sales from dealers (even at gun shows). They are not required (barring tighter state regulations) from private non-dealers.
I replied to the other guy but checks are required on all sales from a dealer. They are not required, under federal law, in sales from your average joe. But some states have tighter restrictions.
The location being a gun show has no relevance on the legal status under fed law for these transactions.
Gun shows are a massive loophole in existing background check requirements for purchasing from stores, because sales there are instead classified as private sales.
Not all sales at a gun show are private sales. Specifically those from a FFL (Federal Firearms Licenced Dealer). The federal law when first enacted specifically excluded private transfer for commerce clause reasons.
Even if you’re purchasing from a business at the show.
As mentioned above this is inaccurate. If you buy a firearm from a dealer at a gun show sans background check both you and the dealer have committed a crime.
And private sales aren’t required to run background checks.
This is true of actual private sales on the federal level. But several states have further restrictions requiring them.
You’re wrong. Dealers operating even temp at a gun show are required to do a NICS background check before the sale by law. I’ve been to numerous ones, never been sold to without one.
The only way they’re a loophole is you can meet private citizens there to buy and sell with because yes, private sales are legal. Anyone smart selling private doesn’t do it without seeing a WCL and getting a picture of it.
Bruh in AZ I bought a gun from a buddy and all it took was sending him money over cashapp or zelle or whatever and the gun was mine. He personally requested a signature of release but that was unnecessary.
In most states you can do that (but if you say it’s for guns they’ll ban you because they don’t want that liability).
Of course if it gets used in a crime and the manufacturer or dealer has a record of you being the buyer, guess whose door they’re going to come knocking on.
It’s also journalistic malpractice to just refer to this guy as a nameless “federal judge”. He’s a main character political player and should be recognized as such. His district refused to implement the anti judge-shopping rule handed down by the Judicial Conference and he’s running a national injunction mill for Republicans. He shouldn’t in any way be given the benefit of the doubt or cast as a faceless judge just doing law.
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