elnacional.cat

Tryptaminev, to world in Israel sharpens its tone to Spain: "The Inquisition is over. Those who harm us, we will harm them"

Weird just a few days earlier they said Spain should look to the time of Muslim rule in southern Spain for atrocities against Jews. Which there weren’t Jewish people and culture prospered under the Muslim rule and then got pogromed when the Christians took back over. Now they refer to exactly that.

It is weird that Israel is hellbent not only on revisionism for its own history, but other peoples history too. Or rather it is pretty straight forward as Israel is a fascist colonial entity and shares its interest in revisionism with the Nazis and other colonial genociders.

Cybermonk_Taiji, (edited )

and other colonial genociders.

Strange how no one ever seems to mention the United States when talking about colonial genociders considering it’s the OG and role model for that.

Edit:

Hilarious that people who are vehemently anti Israel for being “colonial genociders” would down vote me for bringing up US history.

You people are really fucking stupid.

Edit 2:

Look you stupid fucking dick weeds “OG” doesn’t mean “the first ever in recorded history”

NOT ONE OF YOU IS WILLING TO DISCUSS THE AMERICAN GENOCIDE

HYPOCRITE CUNTS.

TheFriar,

lol there were plenty of colonialist genociders before the US. The British empire, the Roman Empire, etc.

Cybermonk_Taiji,

Were there any that were as WILDLY SUCCESSFUL in their complete genocide of the aboriginal population?

One has to wonder.

Segregation era US was the literal inspiration for the Nazi regime, and even they thought the “one drop rule” was too extreme.

The United States was too extreme in its racism for Nazi Germany.

Cypher,

You complete lack of knowledge of the British empire is hilarious in the context of a discussion on colonialism.

Cybermonk_Taiji, (edited )

Gosh! I hadn’t considered that!!!

How fucking stupid are you?

Edit:

Can you name the largest British Colony in the Western Hemisphere and what became of it?

You absolute fucking nonce.

Cypher,

the United States when talking about colonial genociders considering it’s the OG

The OG huh?

What’s OG mean you inveterate cunt?

What came before the US you dense motherfucker?

Cybermonk_Taiji,

The Native Tribes you fucking disgusting prick

Cypher,

No one is denying that indigenous American people were genocided.

Everyone is pointing out that others did it first, to other populations, and the USA in no way can considered the “OG”.

You dumb fuck.

invisiblegorilla,

How is the US the OG???

Cybermonk_Taiji,

Are you serious?

Like really?

Did you learn any history at all?

Here’s a hint, was anyone already living there before it was “the US”?

Edit: bonus question

What happened to them? Hmmmmmmm

invisiblegorilla,

The US isn’t the original coloniser. Ghengis Khan did a bloody good job 900 years ago. Alexander the Great was Over 2000 years ago. The US is just shy of 250 years old. So how the fuck is the US the OG (Original gangster)…

I guess your history knowledge is pretty pethetic… Either that or you don’t know what the terms you’re using means

Cybermonk_Taiji,

You clearly don’t know shit about your own dick.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT GENOCIDE IS YOU FUCKING MORON?

DO YOU?

GO ASK THE FUCKING NAVAJO

Honytawk,

Navajo weren’t the original genocide, it also wasn’t one of the biggest, History doesn’t begin when the US was founded.

Albigensian Crusade (Cathar genocide) where they killed 1 000 000 people was back in the year 1209, it is one of the first documented genocides.

Cybermonk_Taiji,

OG DOESN’T MEAN THE FIRST IN RECORDED HISTORY YOU FUCKING TWAT.

Gosh I just love how much you ghouls love to downplay the AMERICAN GENOCIDE

hypocrite cunts.

invisiblegorilla,

Enraging yourself because you don’t have the mental capacity is hilarious. History didn’t start 250 years ago with the US. If you had a proper well-rounded education you might understand that.

I suggest you go read a book within your ability. Try “Spot the dog goes to school”. It.might be a little advanced for you but you can lift the flaps.

Cybermonk_Taiji,

I just LOVE how no one wants to talk about the AMERICAN GENOCIDE

just saying “it wasn’t the first you’re dumb lolol”

Fucking ghouls.

invisiblegorilla, (edited )

Its funny how its the only thing you want to talk about and no one gives a shit because your delivery is retarded.

Cybermonk_Taiji,

No one gives a shit because they are HYPOCRITICAL TWATS

invisiblegorilla,

No one will ever take you seriously if this is your way of responding to anything. I appreciate you might have some passion about it, but resorting to insults isn’t going to strengthen your argument. Besides that, you don’t listen and get stuck on a loop like a broken record.

Cybermonk_Taiji,

Have you considered that I DON’T GIVE A FUCK WHAT YOU THINK

hypocrite fucking ghouls

invisiblegorilla,

Clearly you do. You can’t help your impulsive self. I bet you’re stewing in front of your phone/computer taking it out on anyone unfortunate to be around you.

NoIWontPickAName,

Bro… you are so far off that you aren’t even in the same ball field

Cybermonk_Taiji,

You’re full of shit

The United States of America was built on the most complete GENOCIDE ever committed.

NoIWontPickAName,

Do you know what OG means?

Cypher,

You know he doesn’t. Honestly I’m surprised he knows where the reply button is.

Cybermonk_Taiji,

Tell us more about how awesome and great the AMERICAN GENOCIDE was you fucking ghouls.

Cybermonk_Taiji,

It means Original Gangsta, not the first ever Gangsta in recorded history you fucking nitwit.

invisiblegorilla,

Go look up the definition for original.

Also resorting to insults shows your lack of capacity and you lose the argument immediately even if you’re right.

Cybermonk_Taiji,

Counterpoint:

Go look up the definition of “go fuck yourself”

You fucking hypocrite trash

Cybermonk_Taiji,

O.G. Original Gangster is the fourth studio album by American rapper Ice-T, released May 14, 1991, by Sire Records. Recording took place from July 1990 to January 1991 in Los Angeles.

Just how FUCKING STUPID are you?

invisiblegorilla,

Irrelevant to everything.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

the OG

Not even close.

SuddenDownpour,

Which there weren’t Jewish people and culture prospered under the Muslim rule and then got pogromed when the Christians took back over.

It’s incredibly difficult to overstate how damn correct you are.

en.wikipedia.org/…/Golden_age_of_Jewish_culture_i…

7-8 centuries of Muslim rule, and Jews become renowned as artisans and philosophers.

en.wikipedia.org/…/Expulsion_of_Jews_from_Spain

The Catholic kings finish conquering the last bastion of Muslims in Iberia, and immediately next they tell all Muslims and Jews to either convert to Christianity or to flee the peninsula, because they aren’t going to like what’s planned for them next. A very different ruler in Europe welcomed them, however:

en.wikipedia.org/…/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ott…

Basically, the Turks managed to help Constantinople regain some of the economic importance it had gained during the centuries of collapse of the Byzantine Empire because they welcomed Jewish artisans that had been kicked out of Iberia.

FlyingSquid, to world in Israel sharpens its tone to Spain: "The Inquisition is over. Those who harm us, we will harm them"
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Israel is making life very dangerous for Jews the rest of the world over, including myself. They want to make it sound like all Jews are Israelis because it helps their cause. Which, of course, suggests that all Jews favor genocide and that emboldens bigots.

And here we go again. Spain isn’t persecuting Jews.

Why9,

On September 11, some Saudis attacked the World Trade Centre. America retaliated by going to war with Afghanistan, found they had nothing of value, and then Rumsfeld said since Iraq has oil, they should go after them instead. The unprovoked attack and illegal war that still, to this day, has had zero repurcussions against Bush, Blair and the rest who started it, and caused individuals from militant faction groups to rise up and attack those nations in the form of terrorist attacks, perpetuating a cycle of hate and loss.

More than twenty years later, uneducated people still fail to see the distinction between individual terrorists and an entire people who follow Islam. Islamophobia is on the rise right now simply because people are protesting the war in Gaza, and still equating those protesters to the terrorism from years prior.

I say all this because I can see how hate, and in your case, antisemitism lingers. Your actions are not that of the IDF, your words are not the same as aggrevators like Ben Gvir and your policies are not the same as Netenyahu’s, but because you’re Jewish, those things are all the same now in the eyes of many uneducated people.

It was the same with idiots attacking random (elderly!?) Chinese civilians on the street as a result of COVID lockdowns. The blame lies chiefly with the media and its incendiary bias towards all things that don’t align with their backward views, and allowing people like Trump to stand on a podium and address millions of people with lies and baseless claims.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

What happened to Muslims in America after 9/11 was disgusting and sickening and I felt so terrible for them when it happened and still do, which is why I know that this bigotry is unlikely to be coming from them. They know what it’s like.

irreticent,
@irreticent@lemmy.world avatar

Israel know what it’s like to be the victim of a genocide and yet that still hasn’t given them much pause.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Yes, hence my blaming them for increasing bigotry against Jews.

irreticent,
@irreticent@lemmy.world avatar

Agreed.

PriorityMotif,
@PriorityMotif@lemmy.world avatar

Has there been an increase in attacks on random Jews? This is a fascist talking point to shut down protests. The rabi at our state college for that one Hasidic organization (the tunnel controversy one) was spouting this nonsense.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Yes there has. It is not just a fascist talking point. However, I know how this goes. I provide examples and they aren’t good enough because there’s never enough examples to prove that there are people out there who might possibly use legitimate anti-Israel sentiment to embolden bigots when I give them.

PriorityMotif,
@PriorityMotif@lemmy.world avatar

I found this article, but they define attacks as using antisemetic language, including attacking Zionism. It also states that “attacks” have been on the rise for the past few years. I didn’t believe that the Jewish population is at a higher risk on being injured or killed based on these statistics.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

When did I say anything about being injured or killed? If you don’t know how awful it is to be personally attacked by a bigot for just being who you are, congratulations on being privileged.

But like I said, there is pretty much nothing I could possibly say to convince some people that Israel helps foment anti-Jewish sentiment.

There are some people I cannot convince that there is any antisemitism at all, which is its own form of bigotry.

PriorityMotif,
@PriorityMotif@lemmy.world avatar

You said they were making life"dangerous." Since when does having your feelings hurt put you in danger? I’ve definitely had my fair share of altercations. I’ve been called the n word, even though I’m white, a homosexual, you name it. In experience people will find anything to take a dig at you to piss you off. It’s just easy to use your religion to make you mad. It doesn’t mean the person is actually antisemetic, they’re just being an asshole.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Again, you must have the privilege of never having been attacked by a bigot. You don’t actually know whether or not they’re going to hurt you after they tell you something like how you killed Jesus. The more bigotry, the more chance of violence.

I can’t believe this needs to be explained to you. It’s like you don’t even know what bigotry is.

PriorityMotif,
@PriorityMotif@lemmy.world avatar

It’s no different than calling someone fat, someone with glasses four eyes, a bald man chrome dome, a woman a bitch/cunt , a homosexual a baguette, etc. Criticizing a fascist religion and a country is perfectly fine. I would gladly call a Hasidic/southern Baptist/Mormon/Catholic/Saudi a cousin fucker.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Sorry… you’re now saying antisemitism is no different from calling someone fat?

The fuck is wrong with you?

And I bet when I provide these links, you’ll prove my point above where I said no examples will be good enough:

…news12.com/nypd-identify-man-linked-to-attack-of…

france24.com/…/20231104-french-jewish-woman-stabb…

algemeiner.com/…/jewish-man-stabbed-six-times-dur…

ny1.com/…/staten-island-jewish-community-rallies-…

justice.gov/…/new-jersey-man-pleads-guilty-series…

Those are all from within the last year.

But I’m sure people are attacked just as often for wearing glasses.

By the way, I’m an atheist. Lots of Jews are. Did you even know that?

PriorityMotif,
@PriorityMotif@lemmy.world avatar

Cults use fear and isolation to control their members, which is why there are unique DNA markers for Jews. Jewish DNA is simply Mediterranean and Mediterranean ancestry developed in relative isolation for centuries, a practice that continues to this day.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Interesting how you only responded to the very last thing I said with a silly opinion (do you think the Nazis knew about DNA?) and didn’t say a damn thing about all the violent acts I pasted that you claimed weren’t happening.

I think it is becoming more and more clear that this is about you feeling your own bigoted beliefs are justifiable.

shalafi,

Remember all the fruitcakes saying a secret cabal of Jews runs the world? Israel is surely pumping them up and their outside influence on our politicians is making it look even worse.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

That’s definitely true. I’ve seen those fruitcakes get more emboldened lately in various online discussions.

But not even them. There is bigotry from people who don’t even realize it, people who would hate the idea that they were saying something bigoted… but they still will say “Jews” when they mean “Israel” and that is mostly Israel’s fault. And it’s those people who can be swayed by the fruitcakes because of that. Suddenly Israel isn’t the enemy, Jews are. And there are Jews everywhere. And some of them are rich and powerful.

Azal,

I’ll say it once, I’ll say it again, Hamas played the whole damn world like fucking puppets with one attack.

I’d be absolutely shocked if the actual leaders that planned the attack are in the strip. Now any Palestenians that might have been against Hamas in the strip are stuck fighting a nuclear power in full “us vs them” mentality, Israel reacted exactly how Israel does any time it has been attacked, which is with overwhelming and vicious force now putting the country doing monstrous actions against civilians going for what looks like a full genocide, your exact point on a rival religion suddenly now giving a lot of voice to the conspiracy theories, it has created an even bigger divide in the US (but then again what doesn’t anymore) and Saudi Arabia who was working on deals with Israel has backed all the fucking way off and NATO is sitting there awkwardly trying to decide exactly where on the line it wants to walk seeing as the US can’t bring itself to go against Israel while Russia is rather uppity at the moment.

Taking away any conversation on ethics, which is nearly impossible… I just can’t believe these leaders are this fucking short sighted.

theonyltruemupf,

This is the best comment I read on the topic on Lemmy. Thank you for making a great point and not bluntly resorting to antisemitism.

undergroundoverground,

My favourite is when nazis say it because, by their own logic, thatwould make the Jews the master race.

Facebones,

FWIW, Fuck Israel, free Palestine - but you and other Jews got a friend in me.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Thank you, and I agree. Fuck Israel and make Palestine free and independent!

HawlSera,

I legitimately worry Israel being genocidal maniacs will lead to a wave of antisemitism, similarly to how Covid-19 having alleged Chinese origins lead to a lot of Anti-Asian crime in America.

Resol,
@Resol@lemmy.world avatar

will lead to a wave of antisemitism

“Will”? It has already been happening for quite a while. I know at least two people who confuse Israel with Judaism, and as a result have become antisemitic. One of them is my grandmother.

AFC1886VCC, to world in Israel sharpens its tone to Spain: "The Inquisition is over. Those who harm us, we will harm them"

Israel and Russia acting pretty much the same way at the moment. Yet most of the Western world supports one while condemning the other.

PrettyFlyForAFatGuy, (edited )

I don’t know anyone outside of the political class and a few right wing nutters that supports israel, especially after the images coming out of rafah in the last few days

edit: even my daily heil reading “shoot em in the channel” relative was perturbed

Enkrod,
@Enkrod@feddit.de avatar

I absolutely support the right of Israel to exist and defend itself against Hamas. I just don’t think that this sanctions the bombing of innocent Palestinians in Gaza or to pursue an aggressive settlement policy.

I am in favor of Israel.

I am strongly opposed to Netanyahu. Fuck that guy and his entire government.

lolcatnip,

I support the right of Israeli civilians who aren’t part of the right wing to exist. The rest should reap what they sow.

Mrkawfee,

israel is a settler colony founded on terror and apartheid.

theonyltruemupf,

So is the US and lots of other countries.

HawlSera,

They aren’t “defending themselves” they are the aggressors

Dremor,
@Dremor@lemmy.world avatar

It would have been harder to support Ukraine if they went and killed thousands of innocent Russian before being aggressed by Russia. But they didn’t.

Most of the west do support the right for Israel to defend itself from such attack, but there is no doubt that Israel went way to far with their riposte. No matter if the Hamas uses the Palestinian as meat shield, Israel made so many “mistakes” and killed so many innocents that it should have asked long ago for the UN to intervene in their place to avoid further unnecessarily killing.

echodot,

No they really are hateful people, they are just using this as an excuse to kill people they hate, it’s not a mistake they’re meaning to do this. They were never going to ask the UN to intervene because that would have robbed them of the opportunity to commit mass slaughter.

Dremor,
@Dremor@lemmy.world avatar

That why I’m talking about “mistakes”. No one in their right mind would believe them.

Aux,

You’re wrong. Palestinians have a right to defend themselves, but they’re being oppressed and genocided for decades and no one gives a shit. Israel doesn’t have ANY rights.

Dremor,
@Dremor@lemmy.world avatar

I never denied Palestinians right to defend themselves. They are oppressed by an apartheid-like regime (no matter how democratic it is), and have every right to denounce that. But I can’t either blame the Israeli to try to defend themselves when Hamas goes and assassinate men women and children in cold blood. No amount of oppression can justify this kind of violence.

And now we got Hamas hiding behind the starving Palestinian population, while Israel indiscriminately bomb everyone with no care for their safety.

In the end we have two evil fighting each other, while the general populace (especially Palestinian) suffers. I can’t support either, best I can is to support ending this senseless war to allow those who suffers to rebuild and seek a peaceful solution that bring everyone together as equals. There was multiple time in history where we were quite close to a solution, but every time, extremist of both side went and fucked everything over.

Aux,

Lol what?

sapetoku, to world in Israel sharpens its tone to Spain: "The Inquisition is over. Those who harm us, we will harm them"

146 countries recognize Palestine as a sovereign state so I guess Netanyahu will declare WW3 on his own.

graymess,

Netanyahu could and the US would happily follow them.

Ragnarok314159,

“Think of how fast the stock prices will rise!” - Lockheed

pyre,

wouldn’t be out of character. he did the book burnings and the genocide. why not a world war to complete the set?

Count042, to world in Israel sharpens its tone to Spain: "The Inquisition is over. Those who harm us, we will harm them"

Okay, Rhodesia.

CanadaPlus,

Hummus Rhodesia? Magic Rhodesia? We need a nickname like this.

RockyC, to world in Israel sharpens its tone to Spain: "The Inquisition is over. Those who harm us, we will harm them"

Fuck Israel right in the ass with a 2x4.

They have become the very genocidal monster that they were once the victims of.

Fuck Israel.

escaped_cruzader,

They have become

Always have been

tekila,

Israel was never the Nazis’ victim, Jewish people were. Israel is not equal to Jewish people and this is doing a huge disservice to all the Jewish people around the world fighting against this colonial state.

HawlSera,

Wasn’t modern Israel founded by Holocaust Survivors or something? I dunno history I just always heard that…

JaN0h4ck,

Zionism is an Austrian idea, that the British started to enact after the Ottoman Empire fell in 1917. The United Nations then published their partition plan in 1947 which was followed by the Israel Declaration of Independence in 1948.

Which means yes, technically the founding was done by Holocaust Survivors, but in reality Israels history is not too dissimilar to Colonialism.

HawlSera,

Thanks, that may be what I’m thinking of. Regardless of how Israel started, what they’re doing now is Genocide.

Adderbox76,

We also have to remember that prior to 1917, in order to get their cooperation, The British and French promised various Arab states land and independence after the fall of the Ottomans. Only to THEN turn around and form the Sykes-Picot agreement divvying up the land amongst themselves. This is where the idea of a Zionist state first began to be discussed and various Arab groups were betrayed to make it happen.

I’m not saying terrorists aren’t evil. But everything in the middle east is the result of “the west” fucking the people over there over for more than a hundred years.

whereisk, (edited )

To be fair, Jews were also massive victims of empire and colonialism. They were kicked around Europe for centuries since the Greeks and the Romans.

Now, on the fall of the Ottoman Empire all kinds of populations coalesced into nation-states (also, all while kicking out people that did not identify with the new nation - massive population exchanges at the time, millions of dead in forced marches out of a region). Most back to the heartlands of their ancestral lands - so the idea wasn’t far fetched.

Unfortunately, unlike those other populations Jews were in diaspora so long that they had kept little physical connection with that land which was now occupied mostly by Palestinians.

Fun fact: A plan was hatched to allocate a portion of Australia instead

SkyezOpen,

Fun fact: A plan was hatched to allocate a portion of Australia instead

“Shalom, cunt!”

suction,

You need to read a book

HawlSera,

Probably

VinnyDaCat,

Can we not act like this?

If someone is misinformed then you educate and correct them, not mock them. Especially when the person in question is clearly open minded and willing to learn.

suction,

You do that, I’ll do what I think is helping the most

Excrubulent,
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

Not really, it was started before the Holocaust, and it involved actual Nazis. See, antisemites are often quite happy with Zionism because they like the idea of an ethnostate that they can ship all the Jews off to. That’s why pre-WWII German Zionists were able to negotiate the Haavara Agreement, which allowed them to transfer their property to Palestine, and allowed 60,000 Jews to migrate there before WWII.

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

And yet the people who run Israel are all Jewish. So it’s certainly fair to criticize them for committing atrocities like ones that that were done to their people in the past. The Israeli government, not Jews in general.

CanadaPlus, (edited )

(Israel \ Non-Jewish Israelis) ⊂ Jews

There, in precise mathematical notation. Yes, that’s actually a tautology, but we all know the Arab Israelis and similar aren’t in the drivers seat of anything.

CanadaPlus,

Yeah, but pretending they don’t happen to be Jewish just undercuts our credibility.

captain_aggravated,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

As a woodworker I am compelled to point out that milled lumber is available in much larger nominal dimensions than 2x4. There’s no need to limit yourself.

Ragnarok314159,

6x6 support beam? Something real nice.

captain_aggravated,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

What about a 4 inch thick whole trunk bark on slab like they make those ridiculous trendy “river tables” out of?

todd_bonzalez,

“They” in this context clearly means “Jews”.

Can we please stop with this shit? This is why the pro-Palestine side of this conflict keeps being branded as antisemites. Because you can’t seem to help yourself but to make arguments where “Israel” and “Jews” are interchangeable terms.

They aren’t. Jews were victims of the Holocaust. Israel was not. If you can’t tell the difference, leave the activism to the people who can.

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

“They” in this context clearly means “the government of Israel”, which is made up of Jews. It’s not “all Jews” it’s “these specific people in power who are also Jews”. You could use this same bullshit claim to say that criticizing the US government is anti-Christian. No, it’s not.

todd_bonzalez, (edited )

I’m sorry, the Israeli government was a victim of genocide? When? From whom?

EDIT: Let’s try that on for size, quoting the words I’m criticizing.

[The Israeli government] have become the very genocidal monster that [the Israeli government] was once the victim of.

Makes no fucking sense. Nobody has ever genocided Israelis.

You know that though, because you said:

which is made up of Jews.

Then you have made the target of your hatred quite clear. It’s Jews that you hate.

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

Sigh. The first “they” is the Israeli government, the second is Jews in general. The first “they” refers to who is committing atrocities, the second is referring to who has been the victim of atrocities historically. It’s either bad faith or obtuse of you to try to interpret it any other way.

I hate the people in the Israeli government who are committing genocide. They happen to be Jews, which means that you would think they’d try to be better based on the history of atrocities being committed against them.

todd_bonzalez,

Look, this sentence only makes sense if both “theys” are the same group of people.

It’s really not that hard to avoid blaming Jews for Israel’s war crimes.

You can either acknowledge that this is a bad argument, or you can double down on blaming Jews. What’s it going to be?

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

Look, this sentence only makes sense if both “theys” are the same group of people.

I’m gonna give you the benefit of the doubt, against my better judgement.

“The Israeli government has become the very genocidal monster that Jews were once the victims of.”

What about this sentence doesn’t make sense to you? And why do you insist on seeing antisemitism in it?

todd_bonzalez,

Because the statement, as you present it, is more nuanced that what I usually hear people say. It isn’t the statement I originally responded to either, it’s the rewritten version you’re demanding I respond to, only after you redefined the “theys” to something that isn’t so obvious antisementic. It’s also kinda meaningless to say “The Israeli government has become the very genocidal monster that Jews were once the victims of.” written as it is, it it only serves as an attempt to compare Israel to Nazis, which isn’t off-base, but is also better communicated than this.

My issue is with what people typically mean whey they say this. 99.9% of the time, people are saying “Jews were genocided by Nazis, and now they’re genociding Palestinians”. I understand the sentiment, and why people would jump to this “the oppressed has become the oppressor” rhetoric, but this isn’t an appropriate statement. Jews aren’t attacking Gaza and its people - Israel is.

Sure, the majority of Israel’s leadership is ethnically Jewish, but that’s not a reason to blame Jews for what Israel is doing. There are countless Jews that are not Israeli, do not work for the Israeli state, and do not support what Israel is doing. Directing blame at an entire ethnic group because of what a foreign military is doing is overtly bigoted.

My issue isn’t about you, it is about the consistent anti-Israel rhetoric that fails to separate Israel from the Jewish people. You may consider your criticisms of Israel to be logical and rational, with clarity of target, so it’s probably pretty easy for you to handwaved these things away. But Jews know when people are talking about them, and the original comment I responded to was blaming Jews for what Israel is doing to Gaza.

Just because I’m anti-Israel doesn’t mean I’m turning a blind eye to Jew-hate. Downvote me all you want, downvotes aren’t anonymous here, and Antisemites deserve to be on a list when they make clear what they stand for.

RockyC,

Instead of countering my argument, you are engaging in pedantry. You know exactly what I meant.

But for the pedants, I’ll rephrase my original statement:

FUCK ISRAEL RIGHT IN THE ASS WITH A 2x4.

The Israeli government, themselves descendants of survivors of one of the most horrific genocidal events in human history, have chosen to become perpetrators of genocide.

FUCK ISRAEL.

RockyC,

I know exactly what I said. I said Israel, as in the state of.

As a state is composed of the members of its government, I used the plural pronoun “they.”

Get off of your horse.

todd_bonzalez,

Okay, so what group committed genocide against Israel? If that’s what the “they” means, who was it?

Because the Holocaust ended 3 years before Israel existed, so unless the “they” is “Jews”, I wanna know what genocide you were referring to.

RockyC,

See my reply later in this thread.

cupcakezealot, to world in Israel sharpens its tone to Spain: "The Inquisition is over. Those who harm us, we will harm them"
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

threatening a nato state should go over well

Shadowq8,

not if you got AIPAC

kiljoy,

It’s all about the Benjamin’s.

CanadaPlus,

Lol, if they broke article 5, would the US respond?

reksas, to world in Israel sharpens its tone to Spain: "The Inquisition is over. Those who harm us, we will harm them"

Israel is the last country one would think that would do things like this to other people, considering their history. Its like they want to create validation for bad things people have said about them. Though i hope its same situation as in russia, regular people dont want to do those things but are so apathetic and fear their leaders so much they dont dare to rise up. Though in this situation they are likely also so well misled and manipulated they think they are doing the “right thing”. Eitherway, current israeli leadership should just go, like previous german leadership. I really dont want to think majority of their country supports this.

This shit will likely be one of the catalysts for the next world war, at least it feels that way.

UnderpantsWeevil,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Israel is the last country one would think that would do things like this to other people, considering their history.

Jewish people maybe, but Israel is another story. They’ve been doing exactly this their entire history. From the Nakba of '48 to the invasion of Lebanon in 2018, the Israelis have a long and consistent record of picking fights with their neighbors and using centuries-old atrocities to justify their modern day brutality.

From sterilizing Ethiopian Jews to toppling the Nasser government over the Suez Crisis to conducting continent-wide arms deals for dictators stretching from South Africa to Central Asia, these are bad dudes and always have been.

current israeli leadership should just go, like previous german leadership

Funny thing about the previous German Leadership…

Germany’s post-World War II government was full of Nazis: A new study says that half of all senior officials in Germany’s Justice Ministry in the 1950s and 1960s were former Nazis.

The study, known as the Rosenberg project, examined previously classified documents to gain insight into the era between 1950 and 1973. Researchers found that some 77 percent of senior officials in the Justice Ministry had once identified as Nazis, a portion higher than during the Third Reich, the period between 1933 and 1945 when Adolf Hitler controlled Germany, and much higher than researchers expected.

The group included Nazi-era prosecutor Eduard Dreher, a man who sought the death penalty for petty criminals, and Max Merten, who played a role in deporting Jews from Greece.

While US authorities sought justice by putting 16 lawyers and jurists who played a role in the Nazi regime on trial in 1947, Germany tried one lone prosecutor after establishing the West German Federal Republic in 1949.

Many of those working for the ministry in the post-war years came from backgrounds as lawyers or judges in Nazi Germany, and came to the department to provide legal advice as West Germany rebuilt itself. By coming together and closing ranks, the network of former Nazis not only protected one another from legal prosecution but also bound together to create the nation’s laws.

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

By coming together and closing ranks, the network of former Nazis not only protected one another from legal prosecution but also bound together to create the nation’s laws.

Exactly like the GOP in the US today.

Ragnarok314159,

Fortunately for Germany, their Boomer era people decided “fuck you Nazi scum” and they had a reckoning which saw most of them displaced from government and held liable for their crimes as Nazi.

And now the Boomers in the USA help elect Nazi Republicans to office.

Evil_incarnate,

This shit will likely be one of the catalysts for the next world war, at least it feels that way.

“One of the precursors to world war one was the rise of nationalism”

Loos around nervously

Cognitive_Dissident, to world in Israel sharpens its tone to Spain: "The Inquisition is over. Those who harm us, we will harm them"

So, what, is Israel going to commit an act of war on Spain by attacking it’s embassy?

Netanyahu and his government have become all the things they claim to hate.

cupcakezealot,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

they did it with iran like a month ago

lettruthout,

Yeah, sometimes (most times?) that’s what happens when you hate.

Draegur, to world in Israel sharpens its tone to Spain: "The Inquisition is over. Those who harm us, we will harm them"

soaring to new heights of hypocrisy, Israel is acting as an inquisition in Palestine and crusading there.

Jafoo, to world in Israel sharpens its tone to Spain: "The Inquisition is over. Those who harm us, we will harm them"

Dude speaks as if Israel and Palestine have spent the past 5 decades being The Near Eastern equivalent of Sweden and Denmark, rather than locked in a neverending vendetta that makes beefing between The Crips and The Bloods seem like playground scraping, by comparison

HawlSera, to world in Israel sharpens its tone to Spain: "The Inquisition is over. Those who harm us, we will harm them"

I’m sorry, are you comparing Spain to a religious crusade when you’re literally in the middle of genociding an ethnicity and their religion? You’re fucking insane Israel.

Ozymati,
@Ozymati@lemmy.nz avatar

I think they might be remembering that time Spain evicted all the Jews?

assassin_aragorn,

Yeah but Israel is a country. It is not representative of all Jews, as much as Netanyahu would like it to be.

Ozymati,
@Ozymati@lemmy.nz avatar

Not saying they’re right, just I think that’s what was being referenced.

jmsy, to world in Israel sharpens its tone to Spain: "The Inquisition is over. Those who harm us, we will harm them"

Did Spain ask Palestine if they want to be a state? Who are the leaders of Palestine that will interact with Spain?

LotrOrc,

I’m pretty sure the entire argument since 1948 has been that they want to be a state.

I’m pretty sure it’s literally in the idea of a two state solution.

jmsy,

Ask them in 2024 abd the answer isn’t black and white

SulaymanF, to world in Israel sharpens its tone to Spain: "The Inquisition is over. Those who harm us, we will harm them"

Israel dismisses any and all criticism, and always complains about medieval history as an ad hominem attack. Turkey complains about Israel killing Turkish civilians? Israel replies something about Turkey mistreating Armenians. German government complains about mistreatment of Palestinians? Call them modern Nazis. Now Spain gets derided as something from nearly 600 years ago.

absentbird, (edited )
@absentbird@lemm.ee avatar

The Armenian genocide wasn’t that long ago, it happened during my grandmother’s lifetime, and the current leader of Turkey still denies it was a genocide. But bringing up the Spanish inquisition in 2024 is wack.

sazey,

Armenian genocide could have happened yesterday, OP was drawing attention to the raging whataboutism that forms a central pillar of Israeli politics.

absentbird,
@absentbird@lemm.ee avatar

Yeah, I get that. I just wanted to clarify that it was a lot more recent than the middle ages, especially with how much genocide denial has been attempting to minimize those atrocities lately.

HawlSera,

“UK wants to talk about a Healthcare System mere centuries after their mismanaged handling of the Bubonic plague?” - Israel probably

enleeten,

I mean what else can someone say about Spain?

“You no good, uhh, soccer playing, erm, siesta taking…urm… flamenco…look over there, it’s the Spanish inquisition!

Danquebec,

Franco, and killing bulls for pleasure

HawlSera,

Dear Israel: If everyone is a fascist but you, maybe YOU’RE the fascist?

unreasonabro, to world in Israel sharpens its tone to Spain: "The Inquisition is over. Those who harm us, we will harm them"

that’s right moron, bring up something from hundreds of years ago so as to remove any doubt you weren’t really living here in the real world, now, with the rest of us, as we try to stop our murderous governments from carrying out agendas nobody actually wants except sociopaths and murderous cowards like you

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