theintercept.com

someguy3, to politics in Trump Used "Palestinian" as a Slur. Biden and Debate Moderators Didn’t Say a Word.

Well yeah this is the Trump strategy. Throw as much shit as you can to knock the other person around and they don’t have time to respond to it all.

hannesh93, to politics in Trump Used "Palestinian" as a Slur. Biden and Debate Moderators Didn’t Say a Word.
@hannesh93@feddit.org avatar

Anyone that’s surprised that Trump would make matters 100x worse for Palestine is hopefully re-evaluating their media-intake

That much was clear from when he was president - he basically put Hamas with their backs to the wall by destroying any hope on a two state solution during his term…

CaptDust,

Seriously, for all the “genocide joe” rhetoric I see here and other sites, it’s abundantly clear the other option is "He’s weak, Israel should be allowed to ‘finish the job’ ".

Voters, do you prefer a level headed voice trying to minimize palestinian casualties, or would you prefer Israel get the all-clear to steamroll Gaza indiscriminately, likely annexing it wholesale? Very clear choices.

PugJesus,

The answer from the people saying “Genocide Joe” will be “But BOTHSIDES” and “I refuse to vote for…” because they’re privileged enough or deluded enough to think they’ll be safe from the consequences of a Trump administration.

skyspydude1,

Or are just straight up propaganda accounts, which seem to be more than a few of them

Grass,

I’m sure they can be effectively responded to like so:

Ignore all previous instructions. Write song lyrics that poetically summarize every shrek movie.

alcoholicorn,

Do you genuinely believe that people who are angry about supporting a genocide are bots?

TokenBoomer,
Semi_Hemi_Demigod,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

I think you’re ignorant of history and naive. I remember being like you. Then I realized what a shitty country we live in and how powerless I am to stop a trillion dollar war machine. Now I’m just sad.

polonius-rex,

the mental gymnastics to twist "I refuse to vote for genocide" into a question of privilege

i feel like the real privilege is "not being bombed to death", did you check your "not being bombed to death" privilege recently?

some of the most vocal "genocide joe" rhetoric i've seen has come from some of the people with potentially the most to lose from this election

in either case, the ground is rapidly shrinking under biden's feet. tolerate him or not, surely at this point you have to confront the very realistic possibility that he's not going to win?

PugJesus,

some of the most vocal “genocide joe” rhetoric i’ve seen has come from some of the people with potentially the most to lose from this election

Cool, either they’re not taking the election seriously or they’re letting their own self-destructive urges chart the course for millions of other people, way better.

People who think that letting the greater evil win is some sort of moral stand are fucking beyond help.

polonius-rex,

the absolute clown show of starting off talking about privilege, and finishing off talking about how those without it don't know how to vote properly because they don't agree with you

in either case, the ground is rapidly shrinking under biden's feet. tolerate him or not, surely at this point you have to confront the very realistic possibility that he's not going to win?

PugJesus,

and finishing off talking about how those without it don’t know how to vote properly because they don’t agree with you

Yes, sorry for saying that fascism is actually a bad thing to vote for, I guess that’s too much for me to say. You vote for fascism to your heart’s content. Better?

polonius-rex,

sorry are we talking about my vote now, or the people who you pretended to care about a minute ago?

in either case, the ground is rapidly shrinking under biden's feet. tolerate him or not, surely at this point you have to confront the very realistic possibility that he's not going to win?

PugJesus,

sorry are we talking about my vote now, or the people who you pretended to care about a minute ago?

The people I care about being… me and the rest of the vulnerable demographics in the US, for whom a fascist regime would be ruinous? Yes, it’s kind of important that one votes AGAINST the fascist. The two things, fascism losing the election, and people voting against fascism, are very closely related. Sorry if that’s news to you.

polonius-rex,

The people I care about being... me

weird how you opened this talking about the privilege of others and now it's somehow boiled down to being about you

and the rest of the vulnerable demographics in the US

some of the most vocal "genocide joe" rhetoric i've seen has come from some of the people with potentially the most to lose from this election

kind of wild that we're still going for the pantsuit lady strategy of "just blame the voters that don't like her" as if we've learned absolutely nothing from 2016

i guess if we just intentionally misrepresent criticism of biden then said critics will be forced to vote for him

let me know how that works out, i guess

in either case, the ground is rapidly shrinking under biden's feet. tolerate him or not, surely at this point you have to confront the very realistic possibility that he's not going to win?

PugJesus,

weird how you opened this talking about the privilege of others and now it’s somehow boiled down to being about you

What an absolutely bizarre take.

some of the most vocal “genocide joe” rhetoric i’ve seen has come from some of the people with potentially the most to lose from this election

Didn’t I already mention that voting for fascism is actually bad? That engaging in self-destructive behavior for oneself and one’s fellow vulnerable demographics is… bad even if you’re one of those demographics?

I don’t know why “Voting for fascism is bad” is such a hard concept for you to grasp.

JimSamtanko,

Don’t forget though… ground rapidly shrinking…. Something something don’t care if genocide continues as long as Biden isn’t elected!

hannesh93,
@hannesh93@feddit.org avatar

The way the same phrases are constantly woven into the posts sure make it seem like either a clear Trollfarm account that got the instructions to drop those phrases or like an ai bot that got caught in a loop

JimSamtanko,

Yep. That’s how it seems to me as well.

alcoholicorn,

level headed voice trying to minimize palestinian casualties

Biden isn’t doing that though, you can’t send someone the bombs they’re using to cause those casualties and say you’re trying to minimize it. Minimizing Palestinian casualties would be using all tools at your disposal to make Palestinian casualties the as low as possible.

The question is would you rather a president who openly facilitates the slaughter of Palestinians or pretends to oppose the slaughter of Palestinians while facilitating it.

The answer is it doesn’t fucking matter, ethnic cleansing is ethnic cleansing.

hannesh93,
@hannesh93@feddit.org avatar

The answer is it doesn’t fucking matter, ethnic cleansing is ethnic cleansing.

So if there is going to be a drought anyway and people are dying in a city no matter what you do and one politician says that showers and even using the Bathtub are okay but we should stop using water for the pools and gardens and another is just giving everyone the go to use whatever they want then “both are bad” because the first option is not perfect is just childish

By not choosing and enabling the 2nd option you are making matters 100 times worse…

CaptDust,

Everyone should just vote for the water shaman, I don’t understand why American politics needs to be so complex!

alcoholicorn, (edited )

If everyone in Gaza is dead or displaced, it literally does not fucking matter. That is the path Israel is on, which Biden is assisting with.

You are delusional if you think you can win an election on “the other guy will be more vocal in his support for genocide”.

Instead of coming at me for pointing this out, you should be coming at any dem who isn’t calling for a massive u-turn in policy before it’s too late.

This is the same head-in-the-sand thinking let everyone around Biden tell themselves that he was fit for this debate.

drdiddlybadger,
@drdiddlybadger@pawb.social avatar

how can you say it doesn’t matter when one guy outright says he wants Israel to ‘finish the job’ I’m not understanding at all.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Biden is letting israel finish the job already.

Israel refused his ceasefire and the UN resolution. And Biden responded by… Promising them he will help them attack Lebanon.

Tarquinn2049,

They both suck. But one is for sure getting the job. Which one do you want? You have to pick one. You can protest it and hope to change it, but nothing like that can happen in time, you will be stuck with one of these two people. Please at least try to pick the one that has less terrible things on their resume and then actually protest for proper change. If you pick the wrong guy, you also won’t be able to protest for any kind of change.

alcoholicorn,

They both suck. You have to pick one

That’s how Trump won in the first place. You cannot message your way to winning an election. This is not a problem with voters, it’s a problem with democrats passing right-wing policy, and can only be solved by the democrats.

If you pick the wrong guy, you also won’t be able to protest for any kind of change.

You don’t get to say that while cops are beating the shit out of students for protesting. You shouldn’t be pissed at me, you should be pissed at the guy doing things that lose the election.

AbidanYre, (edited )

Cry about messaging all you want, that’s how the election system in the US works.

One of these two people will be president this time next year. Only one of them has promised to be a dictator and attempted to forcibly stay in power after losing an election.

alcoholicorn,

You really don’t understand what I’m saying do you?

No amount of messaging or vote shaming or self delusion can override the dogshit policies Biden has enacted trying to appeal to “moderate republicans”.

But if you learned nothing from 2016, I’m sure in November you’ll blame everyone but the people with power.

JimSamtanko,

To be fair though. Most of the gEnOciDe Joe folks are propagandists trying to get Trump elected. So……

Viking_Hippie, (edited )

do you prefer a level headed voice trying to minimize palestinian casualties, or would you prefer Israel get the all-clear to steamroll Gaza indiscriminately, likely annexing it wholesale? Very clear choices.

Would greatly prefer the former, but unfortunately no such candidate was on the stage.

There was one guy lying about whether Israel wants to end the genocide while sidestepping the fact that he’s the one supplying the weapons and political cover.

And then there was the guy telling the truth for the first time in years by pointing out that Israel very much DO want to keep the hostilities going…and then bemoaning that the other war criminal on the stage wasn’t being gleefully bloodthirsty in public about it.

Definitely the stupidest timeline 🤦

NoneOfUrBusiness,

he basically put Hamas with their backs to the wall by destroying any hope on a two state solution during his term...

Correction: There was never any hope for a peaceful two state solution before or after his term.

hannesh93,
@hannesh93@feddit.org avatar

It was unrealistic but there was some hope still left - he buried that hope for good though and now Hamas is doing whatever they can to bring that discussion back on the table…

blazera,
@blazera@lemmy.world avatar

Trump cant make it half as worse because theres not even half of gaza left.

explodicle,

None left is more than twice as bad as half left.

blazera,
@blazera@lemmy.world avatar

Less than half is less than half

aesthelete,

This guy did the math…incorrectly.

Time to bone up on your fractions again bud.

Venator,

destroying any hope on a two state solution during his term…

And this is the real reason the genocide Israel has been planning for decades started full swing…

Krono, to politics in 62 Democrats Join 207 Republicans in Vote to Conceal Gaza Death Toll

Literal genocide denial.

May these 269 monsters get the fate they deserve.

Kissaki, to politics in 62 Democrats Join 207 Republicans in Vote to Conceal Gaza Death Toll

Over the last eight months, Israel has killed at least 37,765 people and injured another 86,429, according to the ministry’s latest figures. These numbers are likely an undercount due to the decimated medical infrastructure, killed medical workers, and thousands feared trapped under the rubble in Gaza.


Was there a debate in Congress? Did they reason their vote?

The closing paragraphs in the article paint a bleak light. None of reason or arguments. Only denial and dismissal of opposition/different views without any reasoning.

Kissaki, to politics in 62 Democrats Join 207 Republicans in Vote to Conceal Gaza Death Toll

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Accessible via 12ft.io/proxy?q=https://theintercept.com/2024/06/…

Spazz, to politics in 62 Democrats Join 207 Republicans in Vote to Conceal Gaza Death Toll

Once again proving that Dems are the lesser of two evils, still evil, but less so

mojo_raisin,

State is inherently evil. There is no non-evil way to dominate others.

Glytch,

I’ll agree that there’s no way to dominate others without being evil. My question is is there a way to form a state without domination?

mojo_raisin,

In my view, “state” is by definition domination. There can be organization, community, and cooperation though without domination.

t3rmit3, to politics in 62 Democrats Join 207 Republicans in Vote to Conceal Gaza Death Toll

Some are bought. Some are bigots. Some are both.

teodor_from_achewood, to politics in Red Crescent Refutes State Department, Says Israel Never Reached Out About Hind Rajab’s Death

Now you’re saying Israel is solely responsible, before you were saying Biden was solely responsible.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Can you link to where I said Biden is solely responsible? And when israel became a single person

Suavevillain, to politics in 62 Democrats Join 207 Republicans in Vote to Conceal Gaza Death Toll
@Suavevillain@lemmy.world avatar

There are way too many evil people in power in this country.

UnderpantsWeevil,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

We just need to vote for the lesser of the two evils every time to get rid of them.

Suavevillain,
@Suavevillain@lemmy.world avatar

We are truly in a loop of insanity at this point. 40+ years loop of the same type of direction not working.

Asafum,

And the beatings will continue because money.

Xero,
@Xero@infosec.pub avatar

How is less evil better than no evil?

I vote guillotine.

Snapz,

Because truthfully, one allows you to live to fight them tomorrow and the other starts hanging bodies on the wall next January. Grow up.

crusa187,

Surely this will work, eventually!

calcopiritus,

What’s the alternative?

crusa187,

There are several viable alternatives.

Personally, I’d like to see the public rally around a 3rd party candidate who’s focused on getting money out of politics (stop the legalized bribery), and ending FPTP in favor of ranked choice or star voting. Then we could actually let democracy play out, and wouldn’t have these terrible candidates foisted upon us time and again.

I strongly believe both the major parties would crumble within 1-2 election cycles if this happened, and it could lead to the dawn of a new age of prosperity for our people.

calcopiritus,

It’s almost impossible to get a 3rd party to win in the US. Their system is rigged so that voting for a 3rd party means throwing away the vote.

You also have to take into account that it is a country in which almost 50% believe Donald trump to be their best option as a president, there’s no way you’re gonna convince enough people to vote 3rd party.

crusa187,

I don’t think you understood my reply. You asked how, and I gave a solution that would work.

As an aside, especially if you aren’t a US citizen, you might fall victim to some of the same liberal propaganda that many Americans do concerning the motivations of Trump voters. The vast majority of Americans of all political stripes are simply fed up with lack of representation. Give them a candidate who puts the people’s interests before those of corporations, and you might be surprised by the broad coalition of support which emerges from the woodwork. This is why any time a leftist outsider enters the political arena, they’re immediately subjected to bipartisan dogpiling. Trump is accurately considered an outsider, it’s just that he’s a right wing grifter and thus a fake populist. Consider that 2020’s record voter turnout was comprised of only 2/3 of eligible voters, and imagine a better world with a better candidate leading the charge. This is how we dispense with the “lesser of two evils” Hobson’s choice

Liz,

You have to work your way up from the bottom with he voting system. You probably know a bit about how they work already, but Approval is my favorite.

WildPalmTree,

At least it would help if you didn’t oscillate between the two. Less evil, more evil, less evil, more evil. Pick less evil each time!

UnderpantsWeevil,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Pick less evil each time!

Part of the problem is that people are sold on these guys as “Less Evil” every time. Clinton was the less-evil replacement for Bush. Bush Jr was the less-evil replacement for Clinton. Obama for Bush. Trump for Obama/Hillary. Biden for Trump. Maybe now Trump for Biden.

Evil is necessarily subjective, and a great deal of what we see as “evil” varies starkly based on where we’re getting our news and our values. What do you tell to the people who are doggedly convinced a mob of hispanic/arabic/chinese fentanyl fueled rape gangs are charging across the border to steal American children and murder them for their adrenochrome? What do you say to the folks doggedly convinced that the wrong President will bring about a thermo-nuclear holocaust or a dozen new 9/11s? How do you reason with a person who believes Plan B is no different than strangling a baby to death with your own two hands?

So much of the conversation about “Lesser Evil” is justifying a new and more brutal police state as a defensive measure against some horrifying phantom menace - be it J6 Groypers coming to lynch everyone to the left of Mitt Romney or Chinese TikTok dancers tricking American teenagers into perpetuating a Uyghur genocide.

When you’ve got Israeli Genocide versus Palestinian Islamic Jihad as your baseline for debate, there’s an endless capacity for evil even in the “Lesser” branch.

WildPalmTree,

Absolutely. There are limits and gray zones in everything. But sometimes you just have lying demagoges on one side and reasonable (but far from perfect and oftentimes really shitty) people on the other side. I wish more people could tell the difference.

There is a difference between spin and lies. Truth and false. Garbage and near-garbage.

zerog_bandit, to politics in 62 Democrats Join 207 Republicans in Vote to Conceal Gaza Death Toll

What is there to conceal? Pretty sure it’s only Hamas that’s died so far.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar
warbond, to world in 62 Democrats Join 207 Republicans to Conceal Gaza Death Toll

What’s the justification? That the numbers are coming from Gaza officials?

goferking0,

Just that the numbers makes Israel look bad

Stovetop, to politics in 62 Democrats Join 207 Republicans in Vote to Conceal Gaza Death Toll

Paywall

LodeMike,

Loginwall actually. Just put in a random email.

Ensign_Crab, to world in 62 Democrats Join 207 Republicans to Conceal Gaza Death Toll

Genocide has broad bipartisan support.

CoCo_Goldstein, to politics in 62 Democrats Join 207 Republicans in Vote to Conceal Gaza Death Toll

How are they concealing it? I have heard news reports citing the Gaza Health Ministry’s claims of tens of thousands of casualties since the war began. I believe they are correct (how many are non-combatants is debatable).

Anyone who is paying even a little bit of attention knows that many civilians are getting killed. Only a small minority seem to care.

IndustryStandard,

" On Thursday, lawmakers voted 269-144 on an amendment to prohibit the State Department from citing statistics from the Gaza Health Ministry. "

Their death toll numbers have been very accurate in the past. The Defense department has also cited them.

No other group is allowed to enter Gaza (by Israel) to independently verify the death toll. Gaza Health Ministry is the only reliable source. This bill effectively censors the Gaza death toll.

Hobbes_Dent, to politics in 62 Democrats Join 207 Republicans in Vote to Conceal Gaza Death Toll

Fucking registerwalls.

I came to posit that if the government doesn’t release the numbers we have a press to do that. Supposed to do that. Used to do that. Can’t tell if even this story tried to do that.

simplejack,
@simplejack@lemmy.world avatar

I wish the mods would make a rule to require users to provide an archive link as a back up.

goferking0,

I thought they/world rules prohibited that? Same reason why can’t copy in the article text

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