Anyone that’s surprised that Trump would make matters 100x worse for Palestine is hopefully re-evaluating their media-intake
That much was clear from when he was president - he basically put Hamas with their backs to the wall by destroying any hope on a two state solution during his term…
Seriously, for all the “genocide joe” rhetoric I see here and other sites, it’s abundantly clear the other option is "He’s weak, Israel should be allowed to ‘finish the job’ ".
Voters, do you prefer a level headed voice trying to minimize palestinian casualties, or would you prefer Israel get the all-clear to steamroll Gaza indiscriminately, likely annexing it wholesale? Very clear choices.
The answer from the people saying “Genocide Joe” will be “But BOTHSIDES” and “I refuse to vote for…” because they’re privileged enough or deluded enough to think they’ll be safe from the consequences of a Trump administration.
I think you’re ignorant of history and naive. I remember being like you. Then I realized what a shitty country we live in and how powerless I am to stop a trillion dollar war machine. Now I’m just sad.
the mental gymnastics to twist "I refuse to vote for genocide" into a question of privilege
i feel like the real privilege is "not being bombed to death", did you check your "not being bombed to death" privilege recently?
some of the most vocal "genocide joe" rhetoric i've seen has come from some of the people with potentially the most to lose from this election
in either case, the ground is rapidly shrinking under biden's feet. tolerate him or not, surely at this point you have to confront the very realistic possibility that he's not going to win?
some of the most vocal “genocide joe” rhetoric i’ve seen has come from some of the people with potentially the most to lose from this election
Cool, either they’re not taking the election seriously or they’re letting their own self-destructive urges chart the course for millions of other people, way better.
People who think that letting the greater evil win is some sort of moral stand are fucking beyond help.
the absolute clown show of starting off talking about privilege, and finishing off talking about how those without it don't know how to vote properly because they don't agree with you
in either case, the ground is rapidly shrinking under biden's feet. tolerate him or not, surely at this point you have to confront the very realistic possibility that he's not going to win?
and finishing off talking about how those without it don’t know how to vote properly because they don’t agree with you
Yes, sorry for saying that fascism is actually a bad thing to vote for, I guess that’s too much for me to say. You vote for fascism to your heart’s content. Better?
sorry are we talking about my vote now, or the people who you pretended to care about a minute ago?
in either case, the ground is rapidly shrinking under biden's feet. tolerate him or not, surely at this point you have to confront the very realistic possibility that he's not going to win?
sorry are we talking about my vote now, or the people who you pretended to care about a minute ago?
The people I care about being… me and the rest of the vulnerable demographics in the US, for whom a fascist regime would be ruinous? Yes, it’s kind of important that one votes AGAINST the fascist. The two things, fascism losing the election, and people voting against fascism, are very closely related. Sorry if that’s news to you.
weird how you opened this talking about the privilege of others and now it's somehow boiled down to being about you
and the rest of the vulnerable demographics in the US
some of the most vocal "genocide joe" rhetoric i've seen has come from some of the people with potentially the most to lose from this election
kind of wild that we're still going for the pantsuit lady strategy of "just blame the voters that don't like her" as if we've learned absolutely nothing from 2016
i guess if we just intentionally misrepresent criticism of biden then said critics will be forced to vote for him
let me know how that works out, i guess
in either case, the ground is rapidly shrinking under biden's feet. tolerate him or not, surely at this point you have to confront the very realistic possibility that he's not going to win?
weird how you opened this talking about the privilege of others and now it’s somehow boiled down to being about you
What an absolutely bizarre take.
some of the most vocal “genocide joe” rhetoric i’ve seen has come from some of the people with potentially the most to lose from this election
Didn’t I already mention that voting for fascism is actually bad? That engaging in self-destructive behavior for oneself and one’s fellow vulnerable demographics is… bad even if you’re one of those demographics?
I don’t know why “Voting for fascism is bad” is such a hard concept for you to grasp.
The way the same phrases are constantly woven into the posts sure make it seem like either a clear Trollfarm account that got the instructions to drop those phrases or like an ai bot that got caught in a loop
level headed voice trying to minimize palestinian casualties
Biden isn’t doing that though, you can’t send someone the bombs they’re using to cause those casualties and say you’re trying to minimize it. Minimizing Palestinian casualties would be using all tools at your disposal to make Palestinian casualties the as low as possible.
The question is would you rather a president who openly facilitates the slaughter of Palestinians or pretends to oppose the slaughter of Palestinians while facilitating it.
The answer is it doesn’t fucking matter, ethnic cleansing is ethnic cleansing.
The answer is it doesn’t fucking matter, ethnic cleansing is ethnic cleansing.
So if there is going to be a drought anyway and people are dying in a city no matter what you do and one politician says that showers and even using the Bathtub are okay but we should stop using water for the pools and gardens and another is just giving everyone the go to use whatever they want then “both are bad” because the first option is not perfect is just childish
By not choosing and enabling the 2nd option you are making matters 100 times worse…
They both suck. But one is for sure getting the job. Which one do you want? You have to pick one. You can protest it and hope to change it, but nothing like that can happen in time, you will be stuck with one of these two people. Please at least try to pick the one that has less terrible things on their resume and then actually protest for proper change. If you pick the wrong guy, you also won’t be able to protest for any kind of change.
That’s how Trump won in the first place. You cannot message your way to winning an election. This is not a problem with voters, it’s a problem with democrats passing right-wing policy, and can only be solved by the democrats.
If you pick the wrong guy, you also won’t be able to protest for any kind of change.
You don’t get to say that while cops are beating the shit out of students for protesting. You shouldn’t be pissed at me, you should be pissed at the guy doing things that lose the election.
Cry about messaging all you want, that’s how the election system in the US works.
One of these two people will be president this time next year. Only one of them has promised to be a dictator and attempted to forcibly stay in power after losing an election.
You really don’t understand what I’m saying do you?
No amount of messaging or vote shaming or self delusion can override the dogshit policies Biden has enacted trying to appeal to “moderate republicans”.
But if you learned nothing from 2016, I’m sure in November you’ll blame everyone but the people with power.
do you prefer a level headed voice trying to minimize palestinian casualties, or would you prefer Israel get the all-clear to steamroll Gaza indiscriminately, likely annexing it wholesale? Very clear choices.
Would greatly prefer the former, but unfortunately no such candidate was on the stage.
There was one guy lying about whether Israel wants to end the genocide while sidestepping the fact that he’s the one supplying the weapons and political cover.
And then there was the guy telling the truth for the first time in years by pointing out that Israel very much DO want to keep the hostilities going…and then bemoaning that the other war criminal on the stage wasn’t being gleefully bloodthirsty in public about it.
It was unrealistic but there was some hope still left - he buried that hope for good though and now Hamas is doing whatever they can to bring that discussion back on the table…
Over the last eight months, Israel has killed at least 37,765 people and injured another 86,429, according to the ministry’s latest figures. These numbers are likely an undercount due to the decimated medical infrastructure, killed medical workers, and thousands feared trapped under the rubble in Gaza.
Was there a debate in Congress? Did they reason their vote?
The closing paragraphs in the article paint a bleak light. None of reason or arguments. Only denial and dismissal of opposition/different views without any reasoning.
Personally, I’d like to see the public rally around a 3rd party candidate who’s focused on getting money out of politics (stop the legalized bribery), and ending FPTP in favor of ranked choice or star voting. Then we could actually let democracy play out, and wouldn’t have these terrible candidates foisted upon us time and again.
I strongly believe both the major parties would crumble within 1-2 election cycles if this happened, and it could lead to the dawn of a new age of prosperity for our people.
It’s almost impossible to get a 3rd party to win in the US. Their system is rigged so that voting for a 3rd party means throwing away the vote.
You also have to take into account that it is a country in which almost 50% believe Donald trump to be their best option as a president, there’s no way you’re gonna convince enough people to vote 3rd party.
I don’t think you understood my reply. You asked how, and I gave a solution that would work.
As an aside, especially if you aren’t a US citizen, you might fall victim to some of the same liberal propaganda that many Americans do concerning the motivations of Trump voters. The vast majority of Americans of all political stripes are simply fed up with lack of representation. Give them a candidate who puts the people’s interests before those of corporations, and you might be surprised by the broad coalition of support which emerges from the woodwork. This is why any time a leftist outsider enters the political arena, they’re immediately subjected to bipartisan dogpiling. Trump is accurately considered an outsider, it’s just that he’s a right wing grifter and thus a fake populist. Consider that 2020’s record voter turnout was comprised of only 2/3 of eligible voters, and imagine a better world with a better candidate leading the charge. This is how we dispense with the “lesser of two evils” Hobson’s choice
Part of the problem is that people are sold on these guys as “Less Evil” every time. Clinton was the less-evil replacement for Bush. Bush Jr was the less-evil replacement for Clinton. Obama for Bush. Trump for Obama/Hillary. Biden for Trump. Maybe now Trump for Biden.
Evil is necessarily subjective, and a great deal of what we see as “evil” varies starkly based on where we’re getting our news and our values. What do you tell to the people who are doggedly convinced a mob of hispanic/arabic/chinese fentanyl fueled rape gangs are charging across the border to steal American children and murder them for their adrenochrome? What do you say to the folks doggedly convinced that the wrong President will bring about a thermo-nuclear holocaust or a dozen new 9/11s? How do you reason with a person who believes Plan B is no different than strangling a baby to death with your own two hands?
So much of the conversation about “Lesser Evil” is justifying a new and more brutal police state as a defensive measure against some horrifying phantom menace - be it J6 Groypers coming to lynch everyone to the left of Mitt Romney or Chinese TikTok dancers tricking American teenagers into perpetuating a Uyghur genocide.
When you’ve got Israeli Genocide versus Palestinian Islamic Jihad as your baseline for debate, there’s an endless capacity for evil even in the “Lesser” branch.
Absolutely. There are limits and gray zones in everything. But sometimes you just have lying demagoges on one side and reasonable (but far from perfect and oftentimes really shitty) people on the other side. I wish more people could tell the difference.
There is a difference between spin and lies. Truth and false. Garbage and near-garbage.
How are they concealing it? I have heard news reports citing the Gaza Health Ministry’s claims of tens of thousands of casualties since the war began. I believe they are correct (how many are non-combatants is debatable).
Anyone who is paying even a little bit of attention knows that many civilians are getting killed. Only a small minority seem to care.
" On Thursday, lawmakers voted 269-144 on an amendment to prohibit the State Department from citing statistics from the Gaza Health Ministry. "
Their death toll numbers have been very accurate in the past. The Defense department has also cited them.
No other group is allowed to enter Gaza (by Israel) to independently verify the death toll. Gaza Health Ministry is the only reliable source. This bill effectively censors the Gaza death toll.
I came to posit that if the government doesn’t release the numbers we have a press to do that. Supposed to do that. Used to do that. Can’t tell if even this story tried to do that.
theintercept.com
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