theguardian.com

steventhedev, to world in Middle East crisis live: ICJ ruling on case alleging genocide by Israel in Gaza and call for it to stop military action

I wonder how long it will take for Israel to file a countersuit against Palestine for their failure to prevent genocidal statements.

There’s plenty of room to have the ICJ force the UN to designate Hamas, PFLP, PIJ, Hezbollah, and others as genocidal terrorist organizations that cannot receive any UN funding or have their members employed by the UN. UNRWA would have to fire half their employees, but that’s not a bad thing.

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

There’s no doubt in my mind that Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis, etc. etc. would, given half the chance, genocide Jews in Israel.

But I think part of genocide is having the power structure to actually accomplish that level of violence and they just aren’t capable of it. Individual ATROCITIES? Sure, that’s in their reach. Assassinating an entire people? They just don’t have that capability.

If you look at an American example… the Americans had the capability and desire to commit genocide against Native Americans.

The inverse? Massacres, sure, genocide? Not so much.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_massacre_of_1622

Oliofizodos, to world in Middle East crisis live: ICJ ruling on case alleging genocide by Israel in Gaza and call for it to stop military action

Expected and disappointing statement. This just backs the non-statement of saying Israel should “do what it can” to protect civilians. The simplest way to protect civilians is to order an immediate ceasefire. This will help Biden to continue supporting the genocidal campaign that Israel is conducting on the Palestinians, because nothing he says opposes the ICJ.

DarkGamer,
@DarkGamer@kbin.social avatar

Israel is not genocidal, and this trial result supports that.

Ordering an immediate ceasefire would be the world binding Israel's hands, preventing the nation from defending itself against Hamas before Israel achieves meaningful security goals.

The simplest way to protect civilians is for Hamas to return the hostages and immediately end the war, the next best way is to let Israel take out the terrorist government that keeps instigating violence and attacking theirs.

Oliofizodos,

The trial supports the opposite of what this comment is indicating. The role of the ICJ is to determine whether Israel’s alleged actions are capable of being covered by the Genocide Convention. Today they decided that this is indeed the case and the measures they announced, as meager as they are, are legally binding. A final decision will be probably only made in a couple of years.

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Israel is not genocidal

That is absolutely NOT the ruling of this court.

“Judge Donoghue says the court has decided that Israel must “take all measures within its its power” to prevent all acts within the scope of the genocide convention.

She adds that Israel must ensure “with immediate effect” that its forces do not commit any of the act in the genocide convention.”

Since Israel is the only force attacking Palestinians, the order to prevent all acts under the genocide convention “with immediate effect” means that the court IS in fact recognizing Israel is committing genocidal acts against the Palestinian people and that they, and they alone, have the obligation to stop it.

Aussiemandeus,
@Aussiemandeus@aussie.zone avatar

If a court ordered you to “ensure you must with immediate effect dispose of any and all illegal drugs in your possession”. This doesn’t mean you have them, only that if you do you have to get rid of them.

The same applies here, they must make sure genocide isn’t happening, not stop their ongoing genocide.

Palestine is really winning hearts but not so much minds in the information side of this war.

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

When a court orders you to reverse an action, it’s a recognition that you are currently engaging in that action.

So when this court ruled “that its (Israels) forces do not commit any of the act in the genocide convention.”

They are stating that Israeli forces are, in fact, committing acts covered under the genocide convention.

If they weren’t, there would be no need for the court order.

Now, Israel’s defense could be that any genocidal action is the act of individual soldiers or units and is not official Israeli policy… I don’t BUY that, but it’s plausible deniability.

In this case, now, the court is saying Israel has an obligation to stop it regardless of who ordered it.

Aussiemandeus,
@Aussiemandeus@aussie.zone avatar

I don’t read it the same way you do.

I read it as in your way to school tomorrow make sure you don’t play in the road.

During your invasion of Palestine ensure you don’t commit any of the acts outlined here

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

The problem with that reading is we already know Israel is on the wrong side of the genocide convention (bolding mine):

www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml

“In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

a. Killing members of the group;
b. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
c. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

d. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
e. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.”

Israel is already engaging in A, B, and C. So it’s not a matter of telling them to not do something they are currently not doing.

TokenBoomer,

It’s a genocide.

NoIWontPickaName,

Also do you really, truly believe they would stop if Hamas released all of the hostages today?

Honestly?

Saxoboneless,
@Saxoboneless@lemmy.world avatar

That was the deal Hamas offered them days ago - Netanyahu refused it.

jalda,

from defending itself against Hamas before Israel achieves meaningful security goals

Please explain to me, in what world “defending against Hamas” (which are islamist terrorists) and “achieving meaningful security goals” includes bombing a Greek Orthodox Christian church?

WanderingVentra,

They always answer the same. It had Hamas in it. Or under it. Behind every dead child and woman is a member of Hamas. All 26,000 of them.

TheBananaKing, to world in Middle East crisis live: ICJ ruling on case alleging genocide by Israel in Gaza and call for it to stop military action

They didn’t really call for it to stop military action though. They called for it to stop doing things intended to be genocide; I predict that Israel will just disagree that it intends genocide, and keep on doing it.

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Ruling that the Palestinians are a protected class under the Genocide conventions is pretty big though…

From the live thread:

“7m ago 07.43 EST International Court of Justice orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza Judge Donoghue says the court has decided that Israel must “take all measures within its its power” to prevent all acts within the scope of the genocide convention.

She adds that Israel must ensure “with immediate effect” that its forces do not commit any of the act in the genocide convention.

Israel must also take immediate measures to improve the humanitarian situation in Gaza.”

and:

“14m ago 07.37 EST ICJ recognises right of Palestinians in Gaza to be protected from acts of genocide Judge Donoghue, speaking now at the ICJ, said at least some rights sought by South Africa in its genocide case against Israel’s war in Gaza are plausible. She said: “A link exists between the rights claimed by South Africa that the court has found plausible and at least some of the provisional measures requested.”

With the reading still ongoing, the court said it recognises the right of Palestinians in Gaza to be protected from acts of genocide. Palestinians appear to be a protected group under the genocide convention, the court said.

Friday’s ruling at the International Court of Justice (ICJ) does not deal with the core accusation of the case – whether genocide occurred – but will focus on the urgent intervention sought by South Africa.”

Also, statements by Israel are pretty fucking damning IMO:

“20m ago 07.33 EST Judge Donoghue is detailing comments made by Israeli officials during the war, including:

Defence minister Yoav Gallant saying he had ordered “complete siege” of Gaza City”, and later said “we will eliminate everything” and that Israel was fighting “human animals”.

President Isaac Herzog saying, “It’s an entire nation out there that is responsible”.”

fastandcurious,
@fastandcurious@lemmy.world avatar

So is saying that we shouldn’t kill innocent humans ‘A big deal’

Was the world up till now thinking that Palestinians are not humans?

Are only Jews protected under the genocide convention?

What the fuck is going on?

anlumo,

Israel argued that because Jews were affected by a genocide, Israel is therefore unable to commit it themselves.

fastandcurious,
@fastandcurious@lemmy.world avatar

Makes sense, pretty reasonable of Israel

reverendsteveii,

So is saying that we shouldn’t kill innocent humans ‘A big deal’

I know you’re being sarcastic, but yeah. The situation is so dire that having someone at least come out and say “This is wrong” is a net improvement.

DarkGamer,
@DarkGamer@kbin.social avatar

Internet warriors distorted reality and made you believe self-defense is genocide. Although terrible, what the Palestinians are experiencing right now is nothing like what the Jews experienced in world war II, which is what the genocide statutes were written to address. Were they being forced into trains and worked to death or put into gas chambers, I guarantee you they would apply.

fastandcurious,
@fastandcurious@lemmy.world avatar

Are you really saying we should go holocaust level before anyone should take action?

DarkGamer,
@DarkGamer@kbin.social avatar

I'm saying collateral damage is not genocide.

fastandcurious,
@fastandcurious@lemmy.world avatar

‘Wait until enough Palestinians are killed before punishing Israel’

DarkGamer,
@DarkGamer@kbin.social avatar

Wait until the legal definition applies before punishing people for breaking the law.

TokenBoomer,

Who applies the legal definition before punishment for breaking the law?

Oh, right. International orgs like the International Court of Justice.

Resol, to world in Turkish parliament approves Sweden’s membership of Nato
@Resol@lemmy.world avatar

Now it’s time for Sweden to let Turkey in the EU

Skua,

Sweden has generally been pretty supportive of Turkish EU accession. Cyprus is a far bigger issue.

Resol,
@Resol@lemmy.world avatar

The Cyprus problem is just sad.

deegeese, to world in Turkish parliament approves Sweden’s membership of Nato

Can we give Putin a special award for expanding NATO?

ObviouslyNotBanana,
@ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world avatar

Let’s just institute an award show in the Hague

Computerchairgeneral, to retrogaming in The revenge of the video game manual

I miss gaming manuals. Yeah a lot of them were just sets of instructions and pretty forgettable, but every so often there was one that stuck out because someone had put the extra effort into it. Like the original Jak and Daxter game manual that had a map that detailed the entire route you took through the game. Or the Zelda Gameboy manuals that had these great illustrations every other page. Now the only reading materials games come with is the TOS and the Privacy Policy. Still, it's nice to see some games using them again, even if they are very niche. I really like the idea of a game that requires a physical manual in order to play it, almost as part of the gameplay. Like the article says it would be a very niche thing, but it would be a great experience.

UKFilmNerd, to retrogaming in The revenge of the video game manual
@UKFilmNerd@feddit.uk avatar

Back in the 8bit home micro days, we used to read the manuals all the time. Mainly because the games took so long to load from cassette.

I distinctly remember the Microprose manuals for their simulation games when I had a 16bit computer, I felt like I could master the real vehicle after looking through those.

YuzuDrink,

Would’ve loved if Horizon Zero Dawn on PC came with a manual I could read while it compiled shaders…

Potatos_are_not_friends, to retrogaming in The revenge of the video game manual

I found this random indie steam game that had a PDF for a video Game manual, something that looked really time consuming to make. But the game had like 20 steam reviews and wasn’t rated very well.

Definitely seemed like a passion project.

satan,

Which game is it?

kilgore_trout,

We want the name!

helloharu, (edited ) to retrogaming in The revenge of the video game manual
@helloharu@lemmy.world avatar

Tunic uses the idea of a video game manual in such a wonderful way. Its not just a “hey this is what the buttons are, the interface is and a couple of character bios” kind of manual. The devs have made it a core part of the games experience as it guides you through literally the whole game and its secrets without even telling you that’s what it’s doing.

If you’ve not played it you need to experience it for yourself, it’s brilliant.

littletranspunk,

It’s pretty much the only game where saying how to play, beyond basic movement and attacking, is spoilers because of how they implemented it. Definitely worth the play

chunkystyles,

The game is so unique, and its puzzles so novel, I don’t it could be replicated successfully.

dan1101, to retrogaming in The revenge of the video game manual

I remember Ultima IV had a map, a metal ankh, a spellbook, and like a 160 page manual.

weirdo_from_space,

I think Ultime IV also came with a prequel novelization of the original trilogy, or at least a decently detailed summary. PC games used to be packed it seems.

doylio, to technology in ‘The tide has turned’: why parents are suing US social media firms after their children’s death

Good! We need to hold these companies accountable. Around the mid 2010s they realized that it’s more profitable to have addicts instead of users. Casinos, bars, and cigarette sellers are forbidden from selling to children. These addictive platforms should be subject to similar limitations

theluddite, to technology in ‘The tide has turned’: why parents are suing US social media firms after their children’s death
@theluddite@lemmy.ml avatar

Whenever one of these stories come up, there’s always a lot of discussion about whether these suits are reasonable or fair or whether it’s really legally the companies’ fault and so on. If that’s your inclination, I propose that you consider it from the other side: Big companies use every tool in their arsenal to get what they want, regardless of whether it’s right or fair or good. If we want to take them on, we have to do the same. We call it a justice system, but in reality it’s just a fight over who gets to wield the state’s monopoly of violence to coerce other people into doing what they want, and any notions of justice or fairness are window dressing. That’s how power actually works. It doesn’t care about good faith vs bad faith arguments, and we can’t limit ourselves to only using our institutions within their veneer of rule of law when taking on powerful, exclusively self-interested, and completely antisocial institutions with no such scruples.

furrowsofar,

The thing about social media companies is we all have one important power. Just uninstall the app. I agree they suck in so many ways.

Kids though… There are a few things that make me glad I do not have any. Cell phones and social media. They just seem problematic. Not sure anyone under the age of 16 should have either or be on an unfiltered net connection.

Really no one that does not know the standard net rule of block and move on and never share PII should be on the net. I would hope that a 16 year old would know that but maybe not.

Very sad.

Rapidcreek, to world in Hamas says two Israeli hostages have been killed by Israeli airstrikes

Amazed to see some people actually believe what Hamas says.

Count042,

Hamas is the government.

This whole ‘Hamas is evil incarnate’ thing is propaganda itself. Everyone hears Hamas and thinks militant.

Hamas is the government.

The pencil pusher ministry of health dude? Hamas.

The hospital administrator? Hamas

The non doctors without borders doctors? Hamas.

This is like calling every person that was a reservist in the IDF at the festival a combatant. It’s as much of a lie.

Rapidcreek,

When was the last election?

Count042,

Was less than half of the population alive than?

Rapidcreek,

The population of Gaza has increased 100% in the last decade.

Count042,

You keep responding with sentences that are literally not related to the questions asked.

Almost like you don’t have answers that don’t sound horrifically racist.

Rapidcreek,

You have yet to tell me when the last election was that made Hamas the government.

Count042,

17 Years ago.

Do you believe a government starving an undesirable population is genocide?

NoIWontPickaName,

Hey @Rapidcreek you are answering others.

Why are you ignoring this question so hard?

maness300, to world in ‘Giving us oxygen’: Italy turns to Cuba to help revive ailing health system

Why would they turn to a communist country to help them with healthcare?

I thought communism ‘didn’t work’.

WhatAmLemmy,

Turns out that a single payer, socialised, universal healthcare system is the cheapest and most efficient path to quality healthcare.

All it took was most of the world proving that for decades, yet still a significant portion of the human population are dumb enough to believe a privatised profit model could improve things.

PugJesus,
@PugJesus@kbin.social avatar

I mean, Cuba is a mess at the moment. I don't know that this proves anything other than that Italy's pivot to private healthcare and defunding public health services is fucking disastrous.

isVeryLoud,

Cuba was destabilized economically destabilized by the US tbf

PugJesus,
@PugJesus@kbin.social avatar

Cuba has never been successfully destabilized by the US, though we've certainly tried. The US embargo has done some economic damage, but that's different from destabilization. However, the largest part of Cuba's economic problems have been due to Cuba's own economic policies.

maniacalmanicmania,
@maniacalmanicmania@aussie.zone avatar

Economic policies such as?

BestBouclettes, to world in ‘Giving us oxygen’: Italy turns to Cuba to help revive ailing health system

We’ve had the same issue in France. During the pandemic health professionals were hailed as heroes, deservedly so. But once it was over, they started asking for better conditions, and more money towards public health infrastructure. They got shut down and belittled pretty quickly.

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