I mean she habitually lies like Hillary. She is basically an enabler for a fascist police state (extreme militarization and attacking peaceful protesters). Obvious warmonger as well (current admin has that whole genocide enabling thing happening now)
Her khive cult harasses/ed people and tries/ed to get them to commit suicide/ruin their lives. It’s been a thing for years. Fun fact is there are Hillary fans that do the same thing. They’ve not been held accountable for any of these things, and are basically a domestic terror group online. I mean there are plenty of right-wing nuts that do the same, but they get held accountable sometimes.
I am voting against trump. Biden and establishment Dems suck. But there is literally no other option. If you don’t vote and trump wins you would be at fault every bit as his voters will be
Assuming this isn’t an attempt at trolling, Trump ran up the deficit nearly double that of Biden. Given that the argument is generally government spending leads to inflation, how exactly would that not indicate who is more responsible for inflationary costs?
Have you read Trump’s plan for his next turn? The fucker wants to go through with hefty important taxes on EVERYTHING (that’s essentially putting sanctions on the US lol). Cheap groceries aren’t a good prediction for a Trump term. I’d suggest listening to what he’s saying. There’s more that makes me think that cheap things aren’t around the corner, the fucker has many things he wants to spend for, without any plans for increasing the budget.
Trump is a liar, moron, idiot who can only appoint corrupt corporate stooges? His “NAFTA renegotiation” was a boondogle. He’s stupid enough to think a 100 billion dollar wall will keep people with 30 dollar ladders from crossing one of the largest borders in the world. But hey at least contractors will get paid.
Not enough? The current out of control housing prices are almost certainly the result of the trump tax cuts for the rich leading to investment firms like vanguard becoming bloated extra money and buying up housing.
His completely corrupt supreme court picks are dismantling laws that prevent chemical and oil companies as well as heir clients from poisoning the public by dumping chemicals in rivers’
Trump was an unmitigated disaster of a president. He is responsible for something like 3 trillion in debt increases that went almost solely to corporations. A vote for trump is simply a vote install a moron actor who played a business man for president so he can let international corporations strip this country for spare parts.
Yay, Biden isn’t at risk of losing your vote. Unfortunately, this isn’t at all remarkable. He is, however, at risk of losing independents who are/were leaning towards him.
This isn’t a big deal in places like Indiana or Maryland, but it’s a huge fucking deal in the handful of battleground states where the undecided voters will decide it for all of us.
The Vote Blue No Matter Who strategy is literally the dumbest shit and a losing one. It only targets people who are considering a protest vote, and not people who are genuinely trying to figure out who to vote for. It assumes that everyone sees the situation as clearly as you do, and that the only thing preventing a victory is if enough people don’t “fall in line”.
I will always maintain that blaming the electorate in an election for getting a bad result is like saying that the fans lost the ball game.
The only thing I will say for “blue no matter who” is that the alternative - threatening to withold your vote - only works if the campaign is aftaid of losing. They aren’t. They clearly don’t care. They don’t want to govern, they want to present only a token resistance to encroaching fascism and corporate domination.
The benefit of voting the nominally-left-of-extreme-right party in is that it forces them to disappoint their base and that radicalises those people against US empire. Letting Trump win won’t accelerate that process, it will just force people to radicalise in an atmosphere of extreme oppression.
Dems don’t have a platform or a personality without Trump to lord over anyone they don’t like, but will take Trump over moving an inch left 100/100 times
Shoutout to how you’re not calling OP a child for literally the exact same statement but as soon as it’s turned around on you it’s suddenly some stupid baby saying for babies.
An administration is more than a man, Trump with absolutely 0 political experience was able to keep the country rolling, albeit making awful decisions, then the current mental state of Biden means very little. Having said that, as someone who watched my grandfather pass from Alzheimer’s, it’s really sad to see.
yep. They dont have any fear cause they dont think they’re doing anything wrong, They are just living up to the expectations of the person that they think obviously respects them and “helps” them.
you would be surprised at how far a useful idiot would go for you, all for a seat at a table and a pat on the head.
Hell, look at what Trumps done for Russia with regard towards destroying our democracy and destabilizing our country, all because Putin gave him a few puffed up words of fake praise.
No, I think it takes a little more than that. She craves legitimacy, and he gave her a taste of it. I think she is in on it. She runs when doing so will cause the most damage.
You could be right. That could be all she is. I feel like she’s deeper in, but I can’t prove it. Either way, she is totally compromised and unqualified to lead this country, and her fans need to realize it before it’s too late.
She sat at a table with Putin once, so what? Many US and European politicians have met him and sat with him at various summits over the years. I can find an image of Biden shaking Putin’s hand and smiling. Shock!
That image is the context. She has never been important. She has never held political power at any level. She is not a politician. She is no ambassador or diplomat. She’s a nobody who keeps failing to be elected only to the highest office on the planet. She isn’t an almost-Hillary, she’s a barely-not-Vermin-Supreme. She has zero legitimate business at a table with Putin.
Nobody, absolutely nobody gets seated at the same table as Putin without a damn good reason. Look who sits at his right hand; American traitor general and conspirator Micheal Flynn. The only way she got a seat with Putin’s entourage is if she gave him something for it. What did she give? Well, she siphoned votes away from Hillary at the last minute.
You said it yourself, nobody gets seated at the same table as Putin without a good reason. So what is the context? When was this photo taken, where was it, and what was the event?
What? Internet’s right in front of you and you’re unwilling to make the effort to discredit me? If you think those questions have uncomfortable answers for me, you should do the work yourself. I wonder what you’ll find?
I fail to see how your questions are all that relevant. The context is, she is a nobody, and nobodies do not get seated randomly at tables with dictators of superpowers, who have at their right hand traitor general of the same nation as the nobody.
I have no idea where to look for the context, I thought you might know since you posted the image. If you can find out any information about it, feel free to share it. Otherwise, I just consider it bullshit disinformation.
…I struggle to see how any sane individual would vote for either option. Or allow their emotions to be unnerved by “politics”. It is also concerning that more people are not aware of how the electoral process works. The popular vote bickering with one another while both sides laugh at you.
Please stop making decisions rooted in “the lesser of”. If you can pick between the “lesser of two evils” its because you’ve got evil in you…
…Someone is going to watch your child and you’re given two choices: one is a convicted pedophile and the other is a convicted murderer…
… for some of us, there is no choice to choose from. Even under duress we have free will. A gun to my head might influence my decision making, I still made a decision…I could have decided otherwise.
I wont get worked up over political theater. It’s more agonizing to witness them play the same trick, generation after generationn and yall keep drinking the kool-aid 🫤
The problem with your pedophile vs murderer analogy is that Biden and Trump are not equally bad. Trump is a drastically worse choice than Biden. It’s not even remotely close.
You can choose not to vote and try to wash your hands of the whole situation, but they will never be clean. If you don’t vote and Trump wins, that’s on your hands too.
Biden has pushed plenty of problematic legislation to further dismantle and demonize anybody further left than mid right establishment democrats and third parties in general - plus continuing to not actually DO ANYTHING to stop the ones they claim to he the “last line of defense” from or to codify the issues they claim to protect - but y’all don’t mind fascism that doesn’t affect your personal status quo.
I never said Biden is great. I said Trump is unquestionably worse and that is still true. You can be mad about it. Be furious. But don’t let your righteous indignation be the reason we get four more years of trump.
4 more years of Biden just means Trump or the next worse guy next time with 4 more years of prep work dems won’t do a damn thing about because they don’t have a platform if they actually do anything about it.
I’m over voting for 3 steps right or 5 steps right. We still move right either way and y’all are complicit.
Fine. Your choice is three steps right (Biden) or five steps right (Trump). Not voting is also five steps right, but you get to feel smug about it. Thanks in advance for your help, I know you’ll make the right decision.
Voting Biden means working tirelessly to spread disinformation about third party voters being non voters who advocate for not voting, like a good little faschie.
Thank you so much for this perfect example where instead of recognizing somebody’s grievances you call them a Trump supporting non voter and preemptively blame your loss on them (but not enough to actually adjust policy to win those votes of course, thats not the fascist way!)
Onward Blue MAGA, you have more misinformation to spread!
Two serial murderers, one with a higher body count and is also a pedophile, rapist, con man, national security threat, insurrectionist, and convicted felon.
@Pastabatman 😅… you read my comment & thought I’d engage in political banter with you😅 don’t insult my intelligence😆. Only to reply with political comparisons. Tells me you didn’t comprehend. Any retorts rooted in political jargon tells me the message was lost. The analogy isn’t exhaustive…nor was it used as direct synonyms for Biden & Trump…
Perhaps this will help bring it home…a quarter…is still a quarter no matter hown you flip it, or what side it lands on… you still engaged in commerce…
Yall gotta stop reading stuff online and cherry picking whatever triggered your emotion, being willfully obtuse, dismissing everything before during and after lol it’s so funny😆
@dodgy_bagel - I just skipped to the latter part of your reply. Nothing happens until, if ever, the masses can have a common understanding that is based on truth. Expecting the very thing that oppresses you to free you is asinine. Expecting a broken system, a broken process to fix itself is less than smart… you’ve been hoodwinked and bamboozled, the fix was in and has been in for generations. It’s nonsense once you unpack it all and once you do you see the world, things, as they are, and not as they should be. All the brilliant minds in the world and THESE two are your options 🤣😂 why are people so content on elderly people, specifically old white males in office. Living on this planet is definitely interesting to observe…I just smh🙄 what good do your words do if they can’t understand you…
@Pastabatman 😅… you read my comment & thought I’d engage in political banter with you😅 don’t insult my intelligence😆. Only to reply with political comparisons. Tells me you didn’t comprehend. Any retorts rooted in political jargon tells me the message was lost. The analogy isn’t exhaustive…nor was it used as direct synonyms for Biden & Trump…
Perhaps this will help bring it home…a quarter…is still a quarter no matter hown you flip it, or what side it lands on… you still engaged in commerce…
Yall gotta stop reading stuff online and cherry picking whatever triggered your emotion, being willfully obtuse, dismissing everything before during and after lol it’s so funny😆
@dodgy_bagel - I just skipped to the latter part of your reply. Nothing happens until, if ever, the masses can have a common understanding that is based on truth. Expecting the very thing that oppresses you to free you is asinine. Expecting a broken system, a broken process to fix itself is less than smart… you’ve been hoodwinked and bamboozled, the fix was in and has been in for generations. It’s nonsense once you unpack it all and once you do you see the world, things, as they are, and not as they should be. All the brilliant minds in the world and THESE two are your options 🤣😂 why are people so content on elderly people, specifically old white males in office. Living on this planet is definitely interesting to observe…I just smh🙄 what good do your words do if they can’t understand you…
Hey! You read all of my comment this time. Thank you for extending the bare minimum of effort. In return, I’ll read your comments; It’s a reciprocal relationship.
So, in your view, elections change nothing and we’re all sheeple. True change will occur during the revolution; elections have no consequences. Answer me this:
For a trans woman, living in the American South, would another Trump presidency lower quality of life for her, raise it, or would it stay roughly the same?
@Pastabatman 😅… you read my comment & thought I’d engage in political banter with you😅 don’t insult my intelligence😆. Only to reply with political comparisons. Tells me you didn’t comprehend. Any retorts rooted in political jargon tells me the message was lost. The analogy isn’t exhaustive…nor was it used as direct synonyms for Biden & Trump…
Perhaps this will help bring it home…a quarter…is still a quarter no matter hown you flip it, or what side it lands on… you still engaged in commerce…
Yall gotta stop reading stuff online and cherry picking whatever triggered your emotion, being willfully obtuse, dismissing everything before during and after lol it’s so funny😆
@dodgy_bagel - I just skipped to the latter part of your reply. Nothing happens until, if ever, the masses can have a common understanding that is based on truth. Expecting the very thing that oppresses you to free you is asinine. Expecting a broken system, a broken process to fix itself is less than smart… you’ve been hoodwinked and bamboozled, the fix was in and has been in for generations. It’s nonsense once you unpack it all and once you do you see the world, things, as they are, and not as they should be. All the brilliant minds in the world and THESE two are your options 🤣😂 why are people so content on elderly people, specifically old white males in office. Living on this planet is definitely interesting to observe…I just smh🙄 what good do your words do if they can’t understand you…
And a vote for Biden is a vote for the death or Palestinian children. If someone dies no matter what, the wind is taken out of your threat. Or is your life more important somehow?
A vote not for Biden is a vote for Trump and the death of thousands of Americans AND Palestinians AND Ukrainians. No matter what option we choose, Palestinians will die. One option just has significantly less death than the other.
Lol. No new wars broke out under Trump, at least. As soon ad Biden got in, we were sending tanks back into Syriah. We’ve got two major wars were now proxies for. Didn’t happen under trump.
Huh… yeah, actually, that’s a good point I just made. Maybe I will vote for him. I wonder how fast the current wars we’re involved in will stop.
So who does the capitolost vote for? The rich control the decisions. Like always. The ones who fund the parties. The ones who back the people in power.
If the people got who they backed we’d probably have Bernie or someone else who got grassroot funding.
What I’ve seen so many people not understand with the situation we are in right now, is that we can’t fix our current situation in one election. Everything is far to tucked up for that, so the best that can be done is vote for the least fucked up option and work to improve things. People refusing to participate or vote for the candidate who is unfortunately our best option currently (biden) are doing more damage than the people voting for the fascist party. The perfect candidate/option does not exist and never will (obviously not saying everything biden has done has been good).
People refusing to participate or vote for the candidate who is unfortunately our best option currently (biden) are doing more damage than the people voting for the fascist party.
Incredible take. “Say what you will about fascists, at least they support the two party system.”
so the best that can be done is vote for the least fucked up option and work to improve things.
Democrats were good at the first part, but not the second. I remember lots of Dems saying “Vote for Biden, and then we’ll hold his feet to the fire!” Well, there was no “holding his feet to the fire”, because that’s seen as enabling Trump.
The perfect candidate/option does not exist and never will
Yes, but there are candidates who are better, such as Jill Stein and Cornel West. You can’t vote for a perfect candidate, but you can vote for the best candidate.
You need to also vote for someone who actually has a chance to win. Voting for a better candidate who realistically can’t win in elections like this were someone like Trump could win is basically handing Trump the win. His base doesn’t think for themselves, and would vote for him if he killed their family in front of them. I wish to God we had Bernie instead of Biden, but Bernie wouldn’t have won.
I live in a blue state, so using that logic, I shouldn’t vote at all. Voting for Trump or Biden is a waste of time, because the state will go blue regardless.
His base doesn’t think for themselves, and would vote for him if he killed their family in front of them.
If Biden killed your family in front of you, would you still vote for him?
I wish to God we had Bernie instead of Biden, but Bernie wouldn’t have won.
wait, that is both of them! So, the felon adulterer serial liar narcissist one or the one that is older by two years and doesn’t know where he is or what he is saying sometimes?
Right? Everything you can say negative about Biden can be said about Trump and Trump will be the worse offender of the two. Biden does have positive qualities, which I honestly cannot think can be said about Trump. He is a sushi roll consisting entirely of turd.
And you are happily imprisoning yourself into believing that the system is right to only offer you these two as candidates. If everyone that was progressive and unhappy with Biden would vote for Stein, then she could win. It is the mere talk about her having no chance of winning and the vote being wasted that keeps people in line to take the system as is.
I see the same arguments made against voting for smaller parties in my country where there is a minimum % they need to achieve before getting parliament seats. It is a system designed to preserve the current political elites with their network to the economic and cultural elites against ideas and movements taking a foothold.
Everyone sees what Biden is and what he stands for. If everyone who disagrees with that would take to the streets and demand the DNC to hold a real primary, or better yet demand fundamental changes to the political system, you would be surprised what is possible.
are doing more damage than the people voting for the fascist party.
Hooooooly fuck this gets 27 upvotes? There it is folks. Leftists are doing more damage by refusing to vote than the people who stormed the capitol. This hot take brought to you by lemmy.
The Republican party wouldn’t exist if everybody voted. That is a straight up fact. As fucked as our election system is, they are far enough the minority that if everyone got out, the EC wouldn’t matter.
You want a “left light” and a “true left”, you aren’t going to get it by abstaining, or by voting for nonviable moonshot third-party candidates. You are going to get it by abolishing the far right party and making that tiny sliver of the whole population realize that their antiquated views aren’t welcome here.
They need to be crushed.
They only exist because people don’t want to vote for the lesser of two evils, so instead they just don’t vote. And what do you know, a -1 for the less evil is just as effective as a +1 for the more evil.
All of their success is brought on by feeding apathy in their opposition, making it more difficult to vote, destroying any faith in the system, and gerrymandering.
So yes, in my opinion, the far left refusing to hold their nose for a few minutes may as well be voting for the insurrectionist.
Then the way to do that is find a candidate in the primaries who appeals to everyone you need to make that happen. It was never a secret Biden was not that person.
It’s a free country though. Feel free to go with whatever pitiful strategy you want. But you won’t get the pro-corporate genocide supporting brain dead geriatric with my help. Let me know when you’re ready to negotiate.
And if the Republicans get power this time around with a plan to remove all of our rights to hold even fair elections (project 2025) there won’t be any negotiating. I’m a white cis male and it seems like you are too. We’ll be fine either way. It’s minorities and vulnerable classes that will get hit the most, like always. Women lost rights this last time around, it worries me how much more worse it will get.
Do I want Joe? Hell no, but I’ll vote D for the rest of my days and walk through glass to do it. Once there’s no more Rs then we can argue between Joe Biden and AOC. Still ain’t perfect but a lot better than what we have.
It’s a free country for now, feel free to sit this one out.
And if the Republicans get power this time around with a plan to remove all of our rights to hold even fair elections (project 2025) there won’t be any negotiating.
Sounds like the 2020 primaries were pretty important.
In a two party system the only way to “crush” the extreme right is by establishing another party to take the spot in the two party system. And you know what will happen then? The Dems will move from being the far right party with gay rights to being the extreme right party. Because they already are far right by any sensible measure.
So this happened under Obama. People voted blue no matter who, gave Dems a super majority and they used it to pass a GOP-crafted bill that forced people to pay for useless private insurance.
The party itself needs to change and the types of candidates that the establishment supports needs to change. That doesn’t happen when they can do their pied piper thing and keep winning. And no “just one last hit” won’t let them overcome the addiction to corporate conservativism.
we can’t fix our current situation in one election.
We can never fix the current situation in one election. Fixing the American system, within the parameters set forth by that system, requires a dedicated voting bloc that lasts multiple elections refusing to vote for the Dems until they shift far enough left to appease that bloc. As long as you are focused on the next election, your prescription for fixing American politics is just as unrealistic as a random Twitter tankie declaring a general strike.
If Project 2025 is successful, we won’t ever have another democratic election. Our election is going to work like Russia’s does after that point, and we will have a dictator of some kind that pretends to hold elections.
You are very right, and I feel your pain. I’m not judging you for feeling that way, at all.
I just don’t think that abstaining from voting is going to work in favor of fixing this issue. If anything we need to keep voting to keep the country as left as it can be for now, until we can shift the two parties we are forced to pick from farther to the left.
As I said in another comment, this mode of thought is completely defeatist. If you rule out the possibility of a violent uprising and look at how to change our system from within the system itself, the ONLY way to push the country left is for a dedicated bloc of people to refuse to vote for centrist Democrats for multiple elections in a row until the party center aligns with that bloc. That’s the reason why every one of the last few elections has been “the most important election in history” and all the other crap.
To push the Dems left you can either a) reward them for moving left or b) punish them for moving right. Continuing to vote for them year after year as they continually move to the right accomplishes neither of these things.
you can either a) reward them for moving left or b) punish them for moving right
You’re talking about the political will of a nation as you would training a puppy. It’s incredibly reductive and simply not how the overton window works.
If the republicans win the next several elections the democrats will move further to the right to try to steal votes off them. The republicans will have to move further to the right to differentiate themselves from the democrats.
Not surprisingly, the more republicans win elections the further right everything moves.
Your position is exactly where the conservatives would have you. They can’t win your vote so their best outcome is to convince you not to vote.
If every single incentive structure rewards the Democrats for shifting to the right, please tell me how on earth they are under any pressure at all to shift back to the left. The answer is that they’re not, and the people who believe that they’re engaging in the system and pushing it in the right direction are simply fooling themselves as they take part in the system’s unstoppable rightward movement.
I mean all the concerned people could take to the streets right now.
The DNC wants you to believe that all you can do is cast your vote for something every other year and just take the options presented. In that sense they are worse than the Reps who encourage their base to be active for more than just the ballots and it is working.
Especially now the Dems give me huge 1984 vibes in how the individual should handle politics relative to the party.
People do understand that concept, but it’s literally what Democrats have been doing for the past 40 years and it has put us right here where we are right now. The “lesser of two evils” thing just has no propellant left, no one is buying that line anymore. Neoliberalism needs to go before Democrats can start winning again.
You need to understand that people have been saying “just put the neolibs in power again and we’ll work to improve things” every election cycle, and now we are closer to fascism than we’ve literally ever been. You at least understand why people see that strategy as a failure, right? Like, you understand why no one believes it anymore?
A vote for neoliberals is a vote to not have fascism for four more years. America’s voting system doesn’t allow the never-have-fascism votes to be pooled with the delay-fascism votes, so unless there’s a decent chance for a mass swing of voters from delay-fascism to never-have-fascism, trying to encourage a small-scale swing only makes immediate fascism more likely by weakening the only thing with a chance to delay it.
If the plan is to try and encourage the Democrats to have primaries that actually have the power to move the party left, now is not the time to withhold a vote in protest as there’s a good chance that even if it did convince them, there’d never be another election that wasn’t rigged so they’d lose it no matter how popular they were.
A vote for neoliberals is a vote to not have fascism for four more years.
That’s an extremely hard case to make at this point though when the “not” fascist guy is funding a genocide and refusing to entertain the measures we’d need to take to actually take the fight to the fascists (ex. Championing an effort to pack the supreme court). Neoliberals are not truly acting like democracy is on the line, they say it a lot but it’s not what their actions communicate, which makes it difficult to believe they’d ever stop obstructing progress.
Neoliberals don’t stop or stall fascists by getting into power – they just soft sell it and give the general public time to acclimate to the slipping of the Overton window. They do this in service of corporate interests rather than theocracy the way the far-right does but it ends us up in the same place.
If the plan is to try and encourage the Democrats to have primaries that actually have the power to move the party left, now is not the time to withhold a vote in protest as there’s a good chance that even if it did convince them, there’d never be another election that wasn’t rigged so they’d lose it no matter how popular they were.
Now is the time that the Democratic establishment chooses to try to strong arm the left into voting for them, they do this every election; claim the sky is falling and that we must vote for them or else. So I guess my view is, if they have assessed that they can risk playing a game of chicken, so can voters.
I understand Project 2025 and its seriousness, but that problem is going to be there every election from here until such a time that the GOP dissolves. I’m skeptical that 4 years will allow them to achieve everything they want to without sweeping the house and senate too. The president cannot legally be crowned king, and if they try to do that perhaps that is what it will take to actually radicalize the self-sedated upper middle-class liberals and political fence-sitters.
I’m sick of defensive leadership, and any offensive needs to start with attacking the Democratic structure that’s making the party so ineffectual and complicit. More time is not enough in my opinion, people were talking about GOP plans to capture the supreme court as far back as Bush Jr. and giving Democrats wins achieved nothing. They need to be forced to take it seriously and I just don’t see that happening without some pain (for them and, unfortunately, us).
Not having enough time and voting for the least fucked candidate is old and tired. How long do we vote for the Turd over the Douche instead of voting for someone that we actually believe in?
I don’t, I firmly disbelieve. Trump will only care if you’re in a purple state that he tracks the metrics on. He is too dumb to see or care about other stats.
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