It’s worth recalling when support for the Chechen war was low, Putin initiated a campaign of apartment building bombings in 1999.
Some chatter that there were around 8 shooters, and they walked into the hall and immediately shot 40-50, result might end up with over 100 killed. One of the shooters has allegedly been arrested, ISIS-K or Imarat Kavkaz would be under srict instructions NOT to be taken alive. There’s considerable dueling narratives right now
No matter who is actually responsible - Putin will probably blame Ukraine
It looks like US Intelligence warned of this attack in early March.
People at the venue lost all phone and Internet connectivity right prior to the attack. Jamming was being used.
The entire city of Moscow is now on lockdown.
ISIS, through its outlet al-Amaq, just claimed responsibility for the terror attack in Moscow tonight.
In October 2002, Chechen militants took about 800 people hostage at a Moscow theater. Two days later, Russian special forces stormed the building and 129 hostages and 41 Chechen fighters died, most of them from effects of narcotic gas Russian forces use to subdue the attackers.
The false flag apartment bombings were carried out by actual Russian security services - not Chechen assets, or militants.
On an related unrelated note, some of Russian agents who took part were comically stupid. If you aren’t aware of the Sims vs SIM card mix-up, do yourself a favor and look it up.
Edit: as pointed out below, the Sims vs SIM card was not part of the 1999 false flag operation, but a more recent one (2022). My bad.
They botched one of the apartment building bombings worse than “The Sims card” thing. They had announced one of the bombings before doing the actual bombing.
People were posting videos while the attack was happening. Where are you getting this information about “jamming” from? Nearby traffic distribution nodes were likely overloaded which resulted in degraded performance of Telegram and VK services. This is something to be expected when thousands or even millions of people start sending messages all at once, trying to figure out what’s happening to their friends and family.
All the videos I’ve seen are CCTV which were distributed well after the fact. channel 12 from Russia reported the jamming. I’m aware of what a mobile network will do on overload since I used to design and deploy them. It doesn’t quite work that way.
Telegram channels such as Baza, Ostorozhno Novosti and Vazhnye Istorii were posting eyewitness statements and phone footage as early as 20:15 Moscow time and throughout the event. There was no jamming. Degraded performance was reported for Telegram and VK. Whether the issue was with the local access points or Telegram’s data centers is not clear.
Just because cell networks are jammed doesn’t take the whole Internet down. Wifi sourced from copper and fiber networks will continue to work.
And Jamming isn’t some sort of scifi superpower, plenty of devices will connect despite the attempts to jam. Those in closest proximity to the jamming source would be most affected.
So don’t make leap that “videos getting published to Telegram” = “No jamming was occurring”, because one doesn’t prove the other.
I thought Internet was already under control of Moscow, but it’d be wild if it turned out it wasn’t all this time and Putin would never do something like this again, like those other times he did
I did that on the fly and didn’t make a comment a day after. What counts am I wrong on? Most everything has proven to be true. Thanks for the drug recommendation, are you a doctor?
A lot has been said about Call of Duty MWII, but if your theory is correct then we’ll have to say that, of all things, its plot was prescient. And i’m not ready for that
Yeah, art often finds inspiration from the world, and since the world can infinitely be sad, plenty of art has gleaned inspiration from it. It’s way more sad when world -> art -> world though, we are doomed to commit our misdeeds repeatedly
The official said U.S. intelligence agencies had gathered information in recent weeks that the IS branch was planning an attack in Moscow. He said U.S. officials privately shared the intelligence earlier this month with Russian officials. The official was briefed on the matter but was not authorized to publicly discuss the intelligence information and spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity.
…
The Kremlin didn’t immediately blame anyone for the attack, but some Russian lawmakers were quick to accuse Ukraine and called for ramping up strikes. Hours before the attack, the Russian military l aunched (sic) a sweeping barrage on Ukraine’s power system, crippling the country’s biggest hydroelectric plant and other energy facilities and leaving more than a million people without electricity.
Dmitry Medvedev, deputy head of Russia’s Security Council, said that if Ukraine involvement was proven, all those involved “must be tracked down and killed without mercy, including officials of the state that committed such outrage.”
Mykhailo Podolyak, an adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, denied Ukraine involvement.
Not seeing anything yet but it can be hard to get accurate news reporting from a country that kills subversive journalists and is in a war. I think most are assuming it’s either an internal or external paramilitary group related to the war in Ukraine, or domestic terrorists related to the recent elections, I think targeting a concert is more likely the latter but we’ll see which group takes responsibility if any.
Maria Zacharova (Kremlin) seems to think the most important thing right now is that the whole world condemns the attack, which I find to be a kind of weird priority since the thing just happened and we have no fucking clue what is going on.
Absolutely! It wasn’t my intention to insinuate that you cannot. My point is that she was very quick to come out and demand it be done. Of course terror attacks should be condemned. All I’m saying is that the Kremlin has some weird priorities when there’s an ongoing attack. Almost like they’re trying to control the discussion and steer it towards something else.
Yeah not an extemely useful propaganda plot device at all then. You’re not with the terrorists, are you? You better stand up and clap your hands and stomp your feet in sympathy.
Maria Zacharova (Kremlin) seems to think the most important thing right now is that the whole world condemns the attack
nah I don’t condemn anything. Either it was some pro-ukranian group (fair, bring the war to russia!), or more likely, some covert op from the fsb so that this russian cunt in charge can order a new drafting…
ah yes, “bringing war to russia” now means shooting innocents, because responding to terrorism with even more terrorism works so well
Yes innocents die in war, thats what happens. It’s cruel, it’s not fair but this can happen if you attack other countries, although I don’t believe that this is caused by ukranians…
Yes innocents die in war, thats what happens. It’s cruel, it’s not fair but this can happen if you attack other countries
I’d love to see you say that if someone gunned down your compatriots. Or better yet, your family. Surely your condescending Realpolitik tone wouldn’t falter, right?
although I don’t believe that this is caused by ukranians…
Neither do I. ISIS has taken responsibility for this.
I’d love to see you say that if someone gunned down your compatriots. Or better yet, your family. Surely your condescending Realpolitik tone wouldn’t falter, right?
Like parts of my family we lost contact with in Ukraine because of Russia? So pardon me if I don’t have that much sympathy for Russia.
Fuck! Because of your username I now have a strong desire for some nice halva, didn’t eat some in ages. Damn you!
Like parts of my family we lost contact with in Ukraine because of Russia?
So have I, I don’t exactly have the government in high regards either. Quite the opposite. But the people that were at the concert hall were not the ones because of whom I lost my family. I see no point in seeking vengeance through shooting random civilians.
The only violent vengeance that would help is Putin being hung on a gas station railing. But that’s not happening any time soon, he’s probably gonna end up same as Stalin if anything.
The only violent vengeance that would help is Putin being hung on a gas station railing.
I highly doubt that. Russia is mostly rotten to the core, there are too many for way too long in line with Putin. After him there would be another one and most of the people will continue to support these atrocities.
Also the Band was Piknik, quite the supportive band of the russian government so I assume most of their fans are also part of this group. Still civilians though…
Also the Band was Piknik, quite the supportive band of the russian government so I assume most of their fans are also part of this group
Frankly speaking, I’ve not heard of them being either supportive of the madmen in charge, nor being against them directly. The only source for the former is Zakhar Prilepin and he’s as reliable of a source as a cheap headphone wire is reliable for bridge construction, and a concert in the Crimea they’ve held in 2016 but a long time has passed since and people tend to change.
Wouldn’t count it out, though, can’t imagine being able to play at a fairly large venue in Moscow comes without concessions. By the very least, they’re required to keep their mouths shut in case they do theoretically disagree.
The article mentions the US warned of an imminent attack last month and the Russian state dismissed it. Russia also has a history of utilizing false flag operations to start shit, so I’m leaning towards that atm (before more details come out)
Yea, but to stay in power all he has to do is rig the elections, so that theory doesn’t really make sense. I am not saying that a false flag attack is out of the question, but if it is a false flag, the reason for doing it is probably not to keep Putin in power.
This would have the opposite effect for Ukraine. It would cause Russians to actually rally around the flag and be more pro war. The Ukrainian strategy has been to just kill Russian combatants and hope they kill enough that Russians themselves start protesting the war on the home front.
That and Kiev/Kyiv have been enlightening since this whole thing kicked off. I’ve got a couple Russian language textbooks but think it’s time to update to some Ukrainian
The Islamic State group claimed responsibility for the attack in a statement posted on affiliated channels on social media. A U.S. intelligence official told The Associated Press that U.S. intelligence agencies had learned the group’s branch in Afghanistan was planning an attack in Moscow and shared the information with Russian officials.
The problem is that, this helps Putin. If we assume he has no regard for human life, then this is a massive opportunity for him. He’s made the most out of opportunities like this one in the past.
This attack on innocent lives is a profound tragedy as it is. I wish I could spend more time dwelling on the plight of the victims but my brain won’t stop panicking about all the ways Putin can exploit this situation to ruin even more lives.
It’s why I couldn’t shake the idea that this might be a false flag operation. It’s why I can’t deny the prospect that perhaps Russian security services didn’t do all they could to stop this before it occurred.
My thoughts to the victims and those close to them.
It’s why I couldn’t shake the idea that this might be a false flag operation. It’s why I can’t deny the prospect that perhaps Russian security services didn’t do all they could to stop this before it occurred.
It makes him look weak, distracted, and unprepared. People might think his attention and army is spread too thin with the war in Ukraine.
Seems like a really shitty false flag operation to me.
He’s once again the victim of evil foreign aggression, and even ISIS is fighting alongside Ukraine now, proving everyone is a terrorist except Putin, who 100% has done this exact thingmore than many times before.
You’re not wrong, and he’s obviously using it to full effect either way, but it just boggles my mind a bit that they probably knew full well this’d happen and they let it, smack middle in Moscow of all places.
It’s not exactly a good look no matter how much that demented fuck tries to spin it.
US security services have notified Russia of an impending attack, they notified US citizens there to about large gatherings
Gunmen went in calmly, shot at people for 1.5 hours without being stopped, then calmly walked back into a car and drove off.
IS claimed responsibility immediately
Russia claims it arrested the same gunmen in the car that was already identified and look at that, they went straight for the Ukraine border, an impossible to pass war zone. Uh huh…
So the U.S gov (who no one was working and making decisions back then) should go back in time and do something else instead of trying to take the high road now, because they took the low road then. Got it.
(Not trying to be snarky it’s just the logic here doesn’t add up other than ‘I want to be mad’)
Removed and temp banned for BLATANT misinformation.
This particular conspiracy theory stems from a couple of things… an ISIS attack on Israel back in, I think it was 2016? That ISIS actually APOLOGIZED for. Followed by this kind of weird lack of response from Israel.
When you condsider how Israel has no problem killing Palestinians and bulldozing homes for throwing rocks or shooting off rockets that do little to no damage, that seems a little sus.
Didn’t a lot of western countries warn their citizens to not attend any public gatherings in Moscow a couple of weeks ago due to an imminent Isis attack?
From what I have read, Russian government is already trying to blame Ukraine. Deepfakes where secretary of nsdc of Ukraine takes responsibility for the attack are being shown on Russian TV. Medvedev said in his tg that they will punish “Kievan regime” if it’s responsible for the attack.
@paraphrand They believe this wholeheartedly (they elaborated and deleted), that the Russians conducted a false flag attack on themselves to get support for a war they are already conducting. You could only believe it if you were completely addicted to propaganda.
If you can’t show empathy for murdered civilians just because of their nationality, are you really any better? This was a concert hall, not a military base. Think about what you are tacitly endorsing here…
They said struggle - not that they couldn’t. Dont just attribute such a horrible thing based on your own reading. You can have all the empathy for the Russian people but no empathy for the Russian state. After all, the Russian state is also directly responsible for the continuous cold blooded murder of Ukrainian civilians. Not like they gave much warning on February 24th 2022, or in 2014.
Are you expecting me to tolerate the intolerant? No thanks. They don't have any empathy towards Ukrainian civilians either. They rather encourage what is happening, be it torture, rape or murder and have imperialistic ambitions that stretch far beyond Ukraine, wanting to do the same to my country and others. So why should I care? If two scumbag factions murder each other then that's a win win situation.
Russia holds almost 200 different ethnic groups (potentially less since they ethnic cleanse their own populations in the Ukrainian meat grinder), so no. I hold hatred towards a terrorist state.
I joined this instance a long time ago back when it was one of the largest. I’ll admit that it has become more niche since the Reddit exodus. Consider being less tribalist.
Edit: FYI, lemmy.ml is the instance run by the core lemmy devs. If that makes it a Tankie instance, then Lemmy must be Tankie software, so I trust you’ll be deleting your account and joining a Kbin instance asap.
And you feel the need to defend a literal terrorist state. Would you have done so with Nazi Germany too?
FYI, lemmy.ml is the instance run by the core lemmy devs. If that makes it a Tankie instance, then Lemmy must be Tankie software
The Lemmy devs are indeed literal Tankies, which is a quite well known fact. They also own lemmygrad, which is more or less the same as lemmy.ml except that it isn't pretending to be something else. lol
so I trust you'll be deleting your account and joining a Kbin instance asap.
I'm literally using a mbin instance right this moment. I never really used Lemmy, one reason being that the devs are Tankies. Nice collection of self owns my guy.
I'm not defending the state, I'm defending its people. You need to learn the difference.
Rich of you to bring "learning" into this. If you're already this ill informed about Lemmy, then it's clear that you also have no fucking idea what you're talking about in regards to the Russian populace either.
The majority is in support of what is happening in Ukraine, there's literally intercepted calls between wives & soldiers, accepting or even encouraging them to rape, torture or even kill Ukrainian civilians, including kids. You can even go watch street interviews. Even in Moscow & St. Petersburg, which arguably are the most "moderate" Russians, you'll find the majority wanting this not just for Ukraine but the rest of the world too.
And whatever fucking instance you're on, you're clearly confusing lemmy.ml with lemmygrad.ml.
Mbin is a kbin fork, it's not a Lemmy instance.
And no, I'm not confusing lemmygrad with lemmy.ml. They're both hosted by the developers and lemmy.ml is notorious for its Tankie users. Just look at how many of them are in the lemmy.ml worldnews community, spreading disinformation & direct personal attacks on regular people and their opinions. The mods literally do nothing about either, because they have the same mindset. That instance merely pretends to be something more legit, but that falls apart immediately when you actually take a look at it. It's just lemmygrad in disguise.
Yaaa, let’s blame the sentiments of observers for killing Ukrainians, not the genocidal kgb agent and the country where 88% of the voters reelected him…
I can’t believe that there’s still people, who after seeing everything Putin has done, especially to interfere with other countries elections, think that their election was in any way valid
If the election was illegitimate (you mean he really didn’t get 88% of the vote ?!?), then it sounds like its Putin shitting on Russian citizens. Not sure how my comment is derogatory either.
Even if he got that 88%, it was only after murdering is chief rival. There is also a ton of evidence of forged votes, as well as video of armed soldiers overtly looking over the shoulders of people casting their votes.
When a country is as autocratic as Russia, leaders flaunt their suppression instead of trying to hide it. Secrets hint at weakness. Brazen lies and oppression are much harder to challenge. There was almost no attempt to make the election look legitimate. The 88% is intended to remind the people that they are powerless, not to show that Putin is loved.
Agreed. Coming full circle back to my comment, Putin and Russia are to blame for the unnecessary deaths of Ukrainians, not those who harbour sentiments of “Fuck Putin and Glory to Ukraine”
If you go on to any of the pro-Ukrainian telegram channels, Ukrainians are absolutely rejoicing over this. One posted a video of the fire taken by a car driving by on the highway and captioned it “З днем свинячого шашлику” lol.
It could be. It certainly tracks with the separatists’ move into guerilla tactics later in the second Chechen war.
Out of any time for them to start striking again, this would be it. Russia is stretched thin in manpower and supplies, and their attention is very focused on Ukraine and the West. Their ability to dump resources into the southern Caucus to tamp down a potential Chechen War #3 is definitely going to be limited. And coupled with the completion of Putin’s sham election, it sends a very strong message against Russia’s outward facade of “unity”.
What, is Kadyrov not a lapdog anymore? He would seem to be the first hurdle, not a later one. Of course maybe he’s dead or something, idk, i haven’t checked tiktok in a long time.
Why would they attack random civilians instead of pulling a Wagner move towards the Kreml? Russia already showed that they wouldn't have much of a resistance to show for it.
They might have beards, hard to tell from the footage I’ve seen.
May be Islamic terrorism or a bad ol’ fashioned Russian false flag. I doubt Ukrainians or Ukrainian supporting people would do a random terror shooting, they like to be more targeted and the shooting was at random people. There was a foiled group of Islamic terrorists arrested earlier this month, maybe another group.
Yeah, Ukraine hasn’t done anything civilian targeting attacks so i highly doubt it was them. They know how important optics are when it comes to getting international support.
The distinction is not between civilian targets and military targets, it is between “civilian objects” and “military objectives”. Targeting a civilian infrastructure such as refineries, and even civilian power stations can be considered valid military objectives if they make an effective contribution to military action or offer a definite military advantage. The refineries being hit by Ukraine definitely meet that definition.
Just pointing out that what Ukraine does not attack is civilians or in your nomeclature “civilian objects”, but unlike what might be understood from the post I was responding to (because it used “civilian” rather than “civilians”), it does attack civilian infrastructure (when it is a “military objective”, as you pointed out).
Personally I think the attacks on Russian refineries should already been happenning for a long time and I find it’s a disgrace the limitations most European countries and the US placed on Ukranian use of the weapons they provided inside Russia. Strategically it’s ridiculous that Ukraine has had to suffer its infrastructure and its Economy being destroyed whilst Russia needed not at all worry about having it’s productive and economic infrastructure degraded: since Putin doesn’t seem to care at all about human lives, until Ukraine finally made their own weapons with range enough to hit Russian Economic Targets and started targetting Russian refineries, this invasion of his had been almost risk-free.
Ah ok, I misinterpreted your post then. I thought you were insinuating that because refineries are civilian infrastructure Ukraine shouldn’t be targeting them. We’re in agreement here, don’t target actual civilians and slam as many drones as possible into refineries and any other valid targets within Russia.
It was a cease fire proposal - you have to start somewhere. But Russia and China think it’s better to use Gazans a political pawns in the upcoming US elections, so surprise, surprise - some would disagree.
I’m not pro Stalin at all. Don’t know why you’d rather get mad at my name instead of the US and Israel prioritizing genocide over any avenues of peace.
This is about Palestinians deserving human rights, civil rights, and equality instead of ethnic cleansing.
US warns Russia for planned terror attack in Moscow
Russian government and Putin specific either ignore it for the reason the west is fooling them because would fit narrative for the war in Ukraine. Or
Russian government is just incompetent to do anything with that information. Or they know and deliberately don’t do anything with it to link it to Ukraine (even though the perpetrators are IS). Since this was also done in 1999 to blame the Chechnyans, it would fit the profile.
Either way it will be Soviet style lying. The incompetence will be wiped under the rug. The deliberate holding back information and not adequate precautions will not be easily to be proven, yet it creates the narrative for the mobilisation. Fear is Russia’s weapon of mass destruction, the lies are the instruments to fire those weapons.
“Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid.”
A thing that’s really annoying to me about this is they don’t specify what the gunmen looked like and specifically what rifles they were carrying. IS has claimed responsibility, but if it was a bunch of Russian dudes with brand new AKs, it’s far less likely it was actually the IS, and was just an FSB op. Granted the FSB could have supplied brand new AKs, but far less likely to be IS if it was just some Russian commandos
they’ve been known to recruit remotely, I think. and if it was someone from afganistan, i imagine they would source weapons locally. why would the guy go through the trouble/risk of smuggling a rifle and ammo? that makes no sense.
I don’t see an upside for Putin in this. Given how many years he’s been in power anything bad that happens falls on him for failing to prevent it, there’s hardly anyone else left to blame. He’ll probably fire a few people to look as if he’s doing something.
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