Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

kadu, 4 months ago (edited 4 months ago)

I have a .zip containing the latest early access version of Yuzu, for Windows and Linux. It includes the emulator, all required decryption keys, the latest firmware for game compatibility, a tool to automatically download mods, and a convenient guide on how to acquire ROMs.

I will forever distribute this .zip in a non-limited download link to anyone who asks me. Forever. You can PM me today and I’ll send it, you can PM me in 5 years and I’ll send it. Please feel free to do so. It’s not illegal to share where I live, so I’ll share. But do it via PMs, as to avoid causing trouble to the community.

Again, forever. If you’re reading this in the future, unless I’m dead (my mental health is a bit shaky), I’m sending you a fully functional Yuzu pack.

Have a nice day.

rossome, 4 months ago

What is the auto-download mod tool you are referring to?

kadu, 4 months ago

YuzuModDownloader will detect games in your library, check the built in repositories, download the mods and apply them automatically. Do keep in mind it enables all mods by default, so make sure to go to the game’s settings and disable the ones you don’t need.

Excrubulent, 4 months ago

Are these mods to improve things like stability and performance? I’ve found I can only use Yuzu to test out games because it’s impossible to put any real time into them due to crashes.

kadu, 4 months ago

Some allow you to enable better graphics than the native version, some can downgrade graphics to improve performance. Some remove framerate limits. Some are cheats, with infinite health and similar. It varies a lot, really.

For example, with Tears of the Kingdom on a Steam Deck there are mods to make the game run at 16:10, with better performance, and better frame pacing at 30 FPS. If you’re running it on a PC, there are 60 FPS mods with improved draw distances and shadow resolution.

scarilog, 4 months ago

Hang in there, friend, there any many more Nintendo games coming that we must enjoy through piracy to stick it to Nintendo, don’t leave just yet.

kadu, 4 months ago

Thanks! May we all enjoy gaming together :)

polysics, 4 months ago

If you send me this (I pm’ed ya) I will be happy to keep this torch aflame as well.

Squizzy, 4 months ago

Please on me this, and stay strong with the mental health. Seeking help is important and recognising you need it is the first step.

SanndyTheManndy, 4 months ago

Hello kind soul, please share that with me. Was never able to make it work due to lack of keys.

0x0, 4 months ago

Would you consider posting the SHA256 of the download so future pirates may cross reference with this comment thread? Y’arr.

kadu, 4 months ago

Good idea!

SHA256 (.zip): 81c3101348abff9eb7ca55bdb14464eb4b1011d288b3285c91a013a62a1fea94

SHA256 (most recent download link): 120288a5781e23f2c4767c6448a33f2803ab1d45943301441315aa20b78c7fc5

AFallingAnvil, 3 months ago

Decrypting these doesn’t seem to work for me, any idea why?

Cenzorrll, 3 months ago

It’s a hash, not anything encrypted.

Tattorack, 3 months ago

Sorry, I don’t smoke. No, not even in code form.

Muckelchen, 3 months ago

How do I use this? I am not really experienced in this matter.

TheBest, 3 months ago

This is such a dope move, I appriciate your efforts! Thanks for helping the community :)

Timecircleline, 4 months ago

I’m sorry to hear that your mental health is shaky at the moment. I hope things get better for you soon, friend.

Darkwatch00, 4 months ago

Pm’d and thank you.

Lamermann, 4 months ago

Hey man, hope your mental health improves. I’m not quite safe for myself without my anti depressants so I know how that goes.

Keep your chin up.

blurryeyes, 4 months ago

I had no interest on playing switch games, but I do have a problem with authority overstepping. I’ll help you stick it to the man and evangelize more people on the ways of the Corsair. Pm’ed

poleslav, 4 months ago

I would be super interested! Though I’m not sure how to DM from mlem lol

CH3DD4R_G0BL1N, 4 months ago

Pretty sure I saw your comment in a Reddit thread about this. You’re doing good work. Stay strong, legend.

Facebones, 4 months ago

Pmed and also dropping in the comments for mental health solidarity. Here for you friendo ❤️

SurpriZe, 4 months ago

deleted_by_author

kadu, 3 months ago

Sorry, didn’t mean to create this impression. You’re correct - there are mirrors of the official GitHub, other sites hosting it, pre-built binaries being shared on Internet Archive and Discord. You can find Yuzu, and you can probably do so from websites you already know and trust. The keys and firmware are a bit harder for newcomers (which is why I include them in the pack), Google is filled with junk when you search for those, but if you’re already a member of certain communities or have a hacked Switch, you can obtain those easily too.

But I do keep this updated pack that I use when a friend needs it or I happen to format a new PC. It’s already clean, already features the keys and firmware, and I know I can trust it (I built it after all hehe) so I might as well share. Maybe in the future Yuzu links will be harder to find or filled with crapware, mine will not. Maybe Yuzu will win the court case and be distributed on Steam… That’s great! I’ll probably still keep my pack, you never know with these things.

I basically share everything I have, if somebody wants it. Rarely is my copy the only one or somehow special. I believe the single “rare to find” digital piece of media I own is an .iso backup of a brazilian CD-ROM child’s game. But seriously, I don’t attribute much thought to rarity or importance or my name when sharing these things, I just want people who want Yuzu to have Yuzu.

LucidNightmare, 3 months ago

Hey, Kadu! I was having the hardest time trying to find your comment on multiple apps after seeing it on the web version of Voyager. Now, after finding you, I can’t even DM you on any of the three that I use so I am resorting to commenting here in the hopes you’ll be able to see me and hopefully DM me the link for your zip! If you do see this, thank you so freaking much, and I and many other really appreciate you doing this solid! 😁

kadu, 3 months ago

I just PMed you :)

ridethisbike, 3 months ago

So fuckin what? Doesn’t mean you need to be a dick about it

ipkpjersi, 4 months ago

PMed you, hope you’re doing okay buddy. :)

Alborlin, 4 months ago

Hello, I would be greatful if I can do what you said I can do.

I strongly hope and wish you feel better.

WeLoveCastingSpellz, 4 months ago

I have forked everythjng yuzu in hopes of preserving the source code it’s availible here: github.com/F0SSC0RE?tab=repositories

bitwolf, 3 months ago

I wouldn’t trust the fork to remain on GitHub. When yt-dl was taken down GitHub got most.of the forks iirc

WeLoveCastingSpellz, 3 months ago

Yea I should host it elsewhere

WeLoveCastingSpellz, 3 months ago

can you send it to me aswell

Mango, 3 months ago

Ily.

♥️🥰♥️

Kaabiikaze, 3 months ago

Dmed you!

Kudos to you for helping out others. 🙏

therealjcdenton, 4 months ago (edited 4 months ago)

How can I donate to the Yuzu devs to fight Nintendo on this?

ZeroMmX, 4 months ago

Brother… Nintendo’s net income last year was 3.1 BILLION dollars. There is no “fighting Nintendo”.

Let’s be real homie. Yuzu is done. Downvote me all you want after I post this.

As much as we all love Yuzu, the dev’s had to have known this was coming.

I don’t want to be one of those dudes that keeps harping on the “Nintendo should be FOR preserving old games”. We all know Nintendo will continue to kick down ANYONE so much as glancing in their I.P. 's general direction.

Nintendo does what you Nintendon’t want. Always.

Extreme capitalism stifles and suffocates innovation and preservation.

Robaque, 4 months ago

Extreme capitalism stifles and suffocates innovation and preservation.

It’s an inherent contradiction of capitalist competition. Somehow everyone is supposed to be competitive but noone is supposed to win for capitalism to “work”. Otherwise it’s considered a monopoly and “anti-competitive”.

Ironically this requires collaboration.

ZeroMmX, 3 months ago

I had a feeling my adjective was too much.

The way you explain it makes me picture an ouroboros where, instead of the snake eating it’s ass, it’s the ass eating the snake.

dangblingus, 3 months ago

They didn’t expect it to happen because of all of the landmark rulings in the past that emulators are inherently not illegal unless they provide bios to the end user. The only reason why Nintendo is acting now instead of years ago when Yuzu first hit the scene is because it’s in basically a fully working state now and they somehow verified that 1,000,000 people downloaded TOTK. I suspect far more copies of BOTW and Mario Odyssey were downloaded prior.

laughterlaughter, 3 months ago

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it now: I bet most of those 1,000,000 people would have never bought a copy of the game anyway.

dustyData, 3 months ago

Pretty much, piracy are never lost sales. Either the person is extremely passionate and loving of the product so they’ll buy it anyway regardless if they pirated it or not; or they were just tasting the flavor of the week and never intended to buy it under any circumstance; or they are extremely poor/their economy and context doesn’t allow them to access the product legitimately, so they wouldn’t be capable of buying it even if they wanted; or the product is not legitimately available anymore, so pirating is the only way of accessing it.

Piracy is never a lost sale.

laughterlaughter, 3 months ago

You were downvoted by a nintendo shill.

specseaweed, 3 months ago

I bought the game and I still considered emulating it just to run it at higher res.

chiliedogg, 3 months ago

I’m thinking of it so I can play older patches of the game.

jeeva, 3 months ago

Out of interest, at a high level, why?

Did they patch out interesting exploits/speed run things?

chiliedogg, 3 months ago

There’s some easy duplication glitches.

otp, 3 months ago

And some of them probably did buy the game, even

laughterlaughter, 3 months ago

And many more who were friends of acquaintances of the downloader.

TwilightVulpine, 3 months ago

The thing is whatever beef they might rightfully have with 1,000,000 people pirating TotK, it’s not the emulator who’s to blame. The ones who distributed pirated copies are. They are trying to pin it entirely on the wrong group, out of convenience/intimidation.

This is like suing a motorcycle company because a thief used one as a getaway vehicle.

otp, 3 months ago

I believe the issue is that Yuzu was patched to support TotK before TotK was released, which could suggest having used some proprietary code, or at least stuff that the devs shouldn’t have had access to.

They could also make the argument that very few people would’ve downloaded the game if the emulator didn’t exist or at least wasn’t being patched to support a game before it releases.

They definitely didn’t lose 1,000,000 sales. At the same time, I feel like it kind of crosses a line to be pirating a game before it’s even supposed to be sold in stores.

TwilightVulpine, 3 months ago (edited 3 months ago)

I’ve heard people saying just the opposite. It couldn’t run TotK before official release, and whoever made it run had to modify it independently (because it’s an open source project)

Arguing that people wouldn’t have downloaded it if not for the emulator, not only once again assigns blame to the wrong party (“if they didn’t have motorcycles to get away they might not have stolen it”), but it overlooks that there are modded Switches that can run pirated copies too.

Pirating stuff before it’s even out for sale is pretty sketchy, but Yuzu is not the one doing it. It simply lets people play copies they already have, including those they may have dumped themselves. Nintendo is encroaching on customer ownership rights by trying to argue even doing that is infringing.

edit: Maybe my analogy is lacking because one might argue that they rely on the tool to make use of the illicitly acquired thing, which is not necessarily true for a motorcycle. But if we say instead “the bluray player is to blame that people shoplifted” or “the media player is to blame that people downloaded pirated movies”, then I believe it should be even more clear that they are accusing the wrong party.

The only way for Nintendo’s reasoning to work is if they try to argue that not even someone who dumps their own roms and extracts their own keys from their own console ought to have the right to do it. Which would be disastrous for customer rights and preservation. Nintendo cannot be allowed to get away with that.

Tattorack, 3 months ago

I haven’t yet. Sounds like I should add to that statistic.

therealjcdenton, 3 months ago (edited 3 months ago)

I wonder if Nintendo released their games outside of their own ecosystem if that number would still be as high

mlg, 3 months ago

I kind of doubt this because Yuzu doesn’t actually have any of the cryptographic key material that Nintendo could have a valid reason to sue over. They only offer instructions to dump keys, which has to be argued is causing harm because its completely legal to do on consoles and games that you own.

Dolphin ships with the Wii’s AES key but Nintendo never pursued them in court.

Most likely Nintendo won’t get anywhere and only get Yuzu to remove some wiki pages and stuff which will make it slightly harder to use or slow down development by threatening more lawsuits.

sebinspace, 3 months ago

Nintendo know this. What everyone seems to be missing is that defending yourself in lawsuits also costs money.

Apple does this shit all the time.

Mango, 3 months ago

I’d like to seem them dump all those dollars in a legal battle they can’t win. Imagine if they succeed with the judge. They will lose their audience.

jose1324, 3 months ago

Yuzu team is shit. Keep your money

yamanii, 3 months ago

You the pineappleEA guy? I love that I can have the patreon version for free with an easy updater thanks to the yuzu team stealing code from him and him having a vendetta.

redcalcium, 3 months ago

Elaborate?

mlg, 3 months ago

Found the tinfoil dev lmao

samus12345, 3 months ago (edited 3 months ago)

I’ve been holding off on jailbreaking my launch Switch until the next one is out, but I think the time has come.

EDIT: Aaand done. Biggest surprise so far is that there’s a homebrew Pizza Tower port for it! This game really belongs on consoles.

improbablypoopingrn, 3 months ago

RCM loader/jig is like $8

samus12345, 3 months ago

I’ve had one for years, waiting for when Nintendo dropped support. I’m not gonna give them any more money as far as the Switch is concerned, so no reason not to go for it now. A project for this weekend, maybe.

hperrin, 4 months ago

Booo! Nintendo sucks! This was decided 30 years ago. Emulation is not illegal.

s0ckpuppet, 4 months ago

Yeah and none of the switch emulator stuff I've seen comes bundled with the firmware. You have to track that down separately or dump your own from your Switch.

This sure looks like like a slapp suit to me.

echo64, 4 months ago

It’s good we are all clear, nintendo isn’t arguing that. They are arguing a case about copyright infringement and being in violation of the dmca

hperrin, 4 months ago (edited 4 months ago)

It is not illegal to make copies of games you own and play them on an emulator. That is what was decided by the courts. Nintendo is trying to make that illegal.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/d758a44c-930f-4bb0-94d5-a09d2ad92620.jpeg

They’re using the DMCA to say that because Yuzu lets someone circumvent their encryption (which is illegal, but shouldn’t be), that’s the same as Yuzu circumventing their encryption.

That’s basically like saying VLC should be illegal because it has the capability of copying a DVD.

Rai, 4 months ago

I love YUZU and it’s wonderful…

…but if they didn’t have a Patreon they’d have a better stance

yamanii, 3 months ago

You are being downvoted but reminder to everyone that the public Yuzu is way behind on updates and compatibility, they sell access to their most recent version via their patreon. Something that Ryujinx does not do, it purely is a donation and nothing more.

Atemu, 3 months ago

You can download and view the latest Yuzu source code for free and do practically whatever you want with it (GPLv3), including building and running it.

What paying via Patreon provides you is access to early access builds of the software. You’re paying for the convenience of them compiling the latest version of the software for you.

Rai, 3 months ago

You can even get all the latest EA builds as .exe files on the Yuzu PineappleEA GitHub!

Rai, 3 months ago

You can get all the latest Yuzu EA builds for free on their GitHub

But the fact that they’re kinda “selling” access… wait, why exactly DO they “sell” access even? They might not have as much legal trouble if they didn’t do that.

echo64, 4 months ago

They’re using the DMCA to say that because Yuzu lets someone circumvent their encryption (which is illegal, but shouldn’t be),

Yes. That’s what I’m saying. That’s what I said.

hperrin, 3 months ago

Yuzu is not infringing on their copyright, some of the users are. Sue the users.

echo64, 3 months ago

unfortunately, that isn’t how the DMCA works

hperrin, 3 months ago

Can you point me to the provision you’re talking about?

echo64, 3 months ago

(2) No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that— (A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; (B) has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; or © is marketed by that person or another acting in concert with that person with that person’s knowledge for use in circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title. (3) As used in this subsection— (A) to “circumvent a technological measure” means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner; and (B) a technological measure “effectively controls access to a work” if the measure, in the ordinary course of its operation, requires the application of information, or a process or a treatment, with the authority of the copyright owner, to gain access to the work.

hperrin, 3 months ago

Yes, so distributing the code necessary to perform the decryption is illegal. That’s why you have to hack an actual switch to get the code necessary to perform the decryption (prod.keys). All Yuzu is doing is running that code through an AES library to get the game and emulating a Switch to play it. You can’t make AES libraries illegal just because they can be used to decrypt copy protection.

It’s the same with DVD decryption. VLC is not illegal because it doesn’t include the codes used to decrypt DVDs. Once you have those codes, VLC can copy a DVD for you.

echo64, 3 months ago

No, it’s broader than that. Providing a mechanism is enough. Yes, this is functionally making maths illegal, and yes, this is a complaint we’ve had with the dmca for 20 years.

Providing the keys is against dmca, as is Providing the tooling that specifically breaks the rights management. This is just the shitty way Americans made the copyright system.

hperrin, 3 months ago

I disagree that the DMCA makes AES libraries illegal.

echo64, 3 months ago

Okay, well, that’s your opinion based on nothing, so it doesn’t mean much.

At the very least, read the prior art en.wikipedia.org/…/Universal_City_Studios%2C_Inc.…

hperrin, 3 months ago

I don’t know if the two cases are equivalent, DeCSS included all code necessary to decrypt a copy protected DVD.

Yuzu does not include the necessary code to decrypt a Switch game. Users have to either “hack” their own Switch, or pirate the codes. What the users are doing is the illegal part here.

echo64, 3 months ago

You’re conflating the idea of code and keys. The keys are explicitly illegal as they directly fall under nintendo copyright.

The code is also falling under breach of dmca, as its entire use and focus is to break drm. This is the sticking point here.

Again, to labor the point, it’s nothing about the keys, we don’t need to talk about the keys.

hperrin, 3 months ago

I’m using code in the sense of the word pass codes. Like, encryption codes. The codes you input to an encryption algorithm, along with the cyphertext, to get the plaintext.

But yes, Nintendo and you are saying that distributing Yuzu is illegal because it can only be used to violate the DMCA.

I disagree.

It can also be used in compliance with the DMCA, and nothing it includes are the intellectual property of Nintendo. There are exceptions to the rule about circumventing copy protection, and as long as you use Yuzu with an intent (such as security research) that falls in one of these exceptions, you can use Yuzu legally.

As long as Yuzu is never distributed by its authors with the encryption codes, it shouldn’t be illegal, even according to the DMCA. Otherwise, there would be no way to circumvent copy protection for legal purposes with regard to Switch games.

echo64, 3 months ago

You can disagree if you like, nintendos lawyers, prior art, and everyone who understands the dmca isn’t going to agree with your stance at all.

Your stance is a moral one. The dmca is not moral. It exists to limit your freedoms in favor of companies’ profits. Enjoy your blinkered outlook.

Also, never use the word code like that, it’s incorrect and everyone will misunderstand you. It’s wrong. Use encryption key.

Atemu, 3 months ago

They’re using the DMCA to say that because Yuzu lets someone circumvent their encryption (which is illegal, but shouldn’t be), that’s the same as Yuzu circumventing their encryption.

Yes, yes they are. That’s how the DMCA works. It’s mental.

hperrin, 3 months ago

That’s not how the DMCA works, or tons of other software would be illegal. It’s illegal to circumvent copy protection under the DMCA (something I wholeheartedly disagree with), but it’s not illegal to make something that can be used to circumvent copy protection.

In fact, there are exemptions to that provision and one of them states that circumventing copy protection in order to play a video game using assistive technologies is legal.

Atemu, 3 months ago

It’s illegal to circumvent copy protection under the DMCA (something I wholeheartedly disagree with), but it’s not illegal to make something that can be used to circumvent copy protection.

It is explicitly illegal to produce any thing whose purpose it is to circumvent DRM:

(1) No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that—
(A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing protection afforded by a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof;

I’m telling you, that law is mental.

In fact, there are exemptions to that provision and one of them states that circumventing copy protection in order to play a video game using assistive technologies is legal.

Could you point that specific exception in the law? I can’t find it.

Link for convenience: www.govinfo.gov/content/…/PLAW-105publ304.pdf

hperrin, 3 months ago

The exceptions are handled by the Library of Congress and go through a renewal process every three years. Here’s the one from 2021:

www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/…/2021-23311.pdf

The accessibility use exception is on the last page, middle of the page, paragraph labeled 21.

It’s illegal to make something that’s sole purpose is to circumvent copyright. Yuzu does not have that sole purpose, and doesn’t include the code necessary (prod.keys) to even accomplish it.

Atemu, 3 months ago

The actual text for reference:

Video games in the form of computer programs, embodied in lawfully acquired physical or downloaded formats, and operated on a general-purpose computer, where circumvention is undertaken solely for the purpose of allowing an individual with a physical disability to use software or hardware input methods other than a standard keyboard or mouse.

That explicitly only applies to physically disabled people. Yuzu is not specifically targetted at providing a different input method (at all) and certainly not solely for the physically disabled.

That exception is not relevant to this case.

hperrin, 3 months ago

I didn’t say it was. I used it as an example of when circumventing copy protection is allowed under the DMCA.

adaveinthelife, 3 months ago

Oh cool I didn’t know that existed, thanks Nintendo!

bozo, 4 months ago

What’s more, is that from these passages, it sounds like Nintendo even wants backups of games you have lawfully purchased to constitute copyright violation and made illegal (because they have to bypass encryption, therefore violating DMCA). I’m not fluent in legalese though, so correct me if I’m misinterpreting:

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/401db9b1-de2f-4bae-b00b-c8eef540a6e7.png

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/c193a4f9-0944-42f2-b666-de31da18d2f8.png

the16bitgamer, 4 months ago

Ah corporate Lawyer BS, pointing out what they want to be true and not pointing out the other. ROMs are legal under existing Copywrite laws under archival laws in the USA (117) and backup laws in Canada (29.24). The Americans have a bit more of a restricted way of using their archives, but that’s not needs to be argued here, as it appears that Nintendo is blaming Yuzu for actions of the general consumer. It’ll be like blaming your Network provider for allowing a user to download a movie, both legally and illegally, thus they should be punished for both actions.

I also love that Nintendo isn’t not stating it’s illegal here, just that it’s infringing because it’s not authorized.

captain_oni, 4 months ago

It’ll be like blaming your Network provider for allowing a user to download a movie

Which, by the way it was recently ruled in the US that ISPs can’t be punished for that. article source

echo64, 4 months ago

Nintendo is blaming Yuzu for actions of the general consumer

If you read the dmca, that’s something you can do. Making tools that enable others to break copyright protection is specifically disallowed. Which is why it’s one of the more insidious copyright laws

dustyData, 3 months ago

However, the thing is that Yuzu doesn’t do that. Yuzu doesn’t include any form of tooling that breaks encryption, facilitates ROM dumping or offer downloads of Nintendo Copyrighted software. They aren’t facilitating it, the user has to provide all of that chain of the emulation on their own. Hopefully this would be obvious to a judge.

Atemu, 3 months ago

Yuzu doesn’t include any form of tooling that breaks encryption

You cannot state that with certainty. That’s the problem.

Yuzu does indeed include a method to use the Switch’s production keys (which you must dump yourself) to decrypt the games. Whether this constitutes effective DRM is not a question that can easily be answered and must be decided by a court on a case-by-case basis.
This will be what the case will hinge on: Is Ninty’s scheme effective DRM?

I would say no because symmetric encryption with a publicly known key may aswell be no encryption at all but that’s not my decision to make.

They aren’t facilitating it, the user has to provide all of that chain of the emulation on their own.

Um, no. The emulator is doing the decryption on its own. All the user does is provide the prod keys and unmodified ROM.

dustyData, 3 months ago

Yuzu itself doesn’t provide tools to dump keys and Roms from the Switch. The user has to procure them, or the means to dump them, themselves. Thus Yuzu doesn’t facilitates DRM circumvention. The user has to solve that part on their own. They do provide guides for how to do it on their website. But Yuzu themselves don’t make or distribute the tooling, and Yuzu the software is incapable of doing it.

Atemu, 3 months ago

The dumps are just that: Dumps; 1:1 copies.

The tools don’t decrypt anything; that happens within Yuzu. Why else would users need to provide the prod keys to Yuzu?

dustyData, 3 months ago

To dump the keys, third party tools rely on DRM circumventing sploits. You essentially have to hack your own device, certain versions of Switch and certain software updates are no longer susceptible. But it remains that Yuzu doesn’t do any of that. Those tools and sploits were developed by others.

echo64, 3 months ago

it decrypts games using your console keys though? i’ve seen mention of that in their docs so i’m not sure, but yeah if it does that, it’s similar to things that decrypt blurays. feasibly against the dmca because of how broad the dmca is.

evranch, 4 months ago

These passages imply the writers of them lack basic computer literacy and don’t even understand Nintendo’s own systems.

• “copied the game ROMs into Yuzu” Yuzu is not a VM or other container and the ROMs are simply stored on disk in their original dumped form… Yuzu doesn’t “store” or “contain” any games.
• “any copy not on an authorized cartridge” LOL! What about games downloaded from your own digital marketplace, then?

What about a game you downloaded from Nintendo eShop and stored on an external SD card, which is a standard and well supported storage method on Switch? Is that SD card an “authorized cartridge”?

Kolanaki, 4 months ago

The authorized cartridge thing would hopefully be ignored due to several other times Nintendo tried to stop developers like Tengen from bypassing their licensing system and developing their own carts for the NES (you know those weird ones that were usually blue or black? Those were “illegal” in Nintendo’s eyes but they lost every single case they took against them to try and stop them from being made).

ADTJ, 4 months ago

It says “not on an authorized cartridge or console”, the latter would cover legitimately downloaded games. Agree on the other points though.

Atemu, 3 months ago

“copied the game ROMs into Yuzu” Yuzu is not a VM or other container and the ROMs are simply stored on disk in their original dumped form… Yuzu doesn’t “store” or “contain” any games.

ROMs are indeed copied “into Yuzu”. They must be loaded into Yuzu’s memory in order for Yuzu to execute their code or render their assets. In copyright law, even loading something to memory constitutes a “copy”.

Also, almost every emulator is a VM; do you think those ARM instructions are running on your x86 processor and its desktop OS kernel natively?

evranch, 3 months ago

I thought Yuzu was actually a dynamic recompiler? I remember this practice started in the days of N64 emulation, and these tools are more like debuggers than like VMs. So in this case, ROMs may only be copied “into Yuzu” byte by byte, not stored as a block in memory. At this point it’s really semantics, but that’s what the lawyers are supposed to figure out, right?

Unlike older emulators, Switch emulators don’t even support saving the emulator state, and their savegame data is stored right on the native filesystem. I believe they are actually more like Wine, and remember, Wine Is Not an Emulator.

badabim, 3 months ago

Yuzu does recompile some parts during runtime by using a JIT, but the rest is still emulated.

You can’t compare them to Wine, since Wine acts as a compatibility layer by translating OS specific calls, but it does not translate between instruction sets.

evranch, 3 months ago

Thanks for clarifying, I only have a casual knowledge of Yuzu internals and had been led to believe the ARM was translated rather than emulated.

The performance is honestly incredible for software emulating a different instruction set.

ICastFist, 3 months ago

I remember a video of SomeOrdinaryGamers talking about a case where a company (I think it was Nintendo) was arguing that making a copy of games you own yourself should be illegal. The whole case was just that. Probably something from the last 4 months or so.

Anyway, regarding 124, a judge with a working brain would say "There’s nothing here stating that it was Yuzu who allowed, or facilitated, anyone to obtain said reproductions."

57. The copies were not obtained through Yuzu. Yuzu is not a site where the roms are, or even links to any of them. Sure, it exists solely to emulate nintendo’s current hardware, but that’s not the problem.

Sigh. If only law and justice worked based on factual evidence and logic, instead of interpretative contortionism…

Dudewitbow, 4 months ago

the funniest shit about the paperowrk is that nintendo indirectly says nintendo is doing illegal work because they claim a video game emulator is a piece of software that allows users to unlawfully play pirated video games that were published for a specific console on a general purpose device.

they either have to say NSO/Nes/Snes classic are not emulation, or admit their definition of emulators is not the universally accepted definition of it, else Nintendo just Claimed Nintendo is serving up and charging for an unlawful service that is NSO.

schmidtster, 4 months ago

FWIW you can lawfully play pirated games, so that means nothing.

Rentlar, 4 months ago (edited 3 months ago)

Case in point there is some evidence that Nintendo might have used a dumped and illegally distributed version of Super Mario Bros. in their Wii Virtual Console

schmidtster, 4 months ago

That’s a funny one too me, because they are the original source when you dig your way down, so how are they doing anything wrong there?

Yeah it’s someone else’s work… which isn’t there’s anyways… so isn’t it always nintendos then?

catloaf, 4 months ago

They’re profiting from something they themselves say is illegal.

schmidtster, 4 months ago

It’s illegal if you don’t own the rom or decoded it with their keys. If you have the physical copy of the game, and a way to decrypt it, it’s not illegal to play the rom on an emulator.

So it’s not illegal, it becomes illegal when you don’t have the physical copy, or decode it with their stuff.

Atemu, 3 months ago

That’s rather clear evidence that they dumped their own ROM and distributed that. Since they own the rights to that ROM, they’re not distributing it illegally though. They can dump and distribute their ROMs all they want; they own the rights to them.

Rentlar, 3 months ago

I’m no legal expert but Nintendo’s argument seems to surround a video game emulator being a tool whose primary use is to facilitate illegal circumvention of DRM and piracy. Nintendo’s use of emulation for a legal means to resell their games on another platform, could suggest otherwise. The possible use of a ROM illegally distributed by a 3rd party as inputs in a legitimate Nintendo emulator (though Nintendo denies this) could help separate the issues between ROMs and emulation, because Nintendo’s emulator isn’t used for piracy.

Nintendo could use a copy of the freely available Yuzu to emulate Switch games on their rumored Switch 2, if they were so inclined, and it would be a legitimate use case.

Mango, 3 months ago

I cannot even come up with a way to express how goddamn hilarious that is!!

TORFdot0, 4 months ago

I really want a real explanation on how I’ve caused Nintendo financial harm by format shifting my legally owned games. Especially considering I pay for NSO. At some point there has to be precedent that a pirated download does not equal a lost sale and that the individuals are responsible for the infringement and not the tools.

friend_of_satan, 3 months ago

Thats funny considering they included emulators in official games. nintendolife.com/…/nerd_explains_the_challenge_of…

Epzillon, 3 months ago

Typical Nintendo move. So sad to see Yuzu possibly going down this way. Even looks like Nintendo might win this one. I’m just gonna download the entire source from GitHub just in case.

I wish this would just go full hydra mode if it goes down though. Start popping up new anonymous accounts releasing the source code everywhere.

laughterlaughter, 3 months ago

Yuzu may go down, but Nintendo hasn’t learned the lessons of the Streisand effect and the hydra effect. The code is open source. 10 more projects will pop up the day after Yuzu goes down (IF it goes down.)

sebinspace, 3 months ago

There’s also still Ryujinx

Appoxo, 3 months ago

Shhh. The community always seems to forget this one.
Let’s keep it like that so Nintendo lawyers don’t pay as much attention to it.

redcalcium, 4 months ago

I sincerely hope that Yuzu developers don’t end up like Gary Bowser and have their income garnished for life by Nintendo.

Essence_of_Meh, 4 months ago

As much as I dislike Nintendo and wish Yuzu devs all the best I'd like to point out that Bowser wasn't some innocent guy who was caught by big bad company - Moonie has a video that goes into specifics about his involvement with a pirate enterprise worth a shitton of money.

Other than that yeah, I hope they can survive this situation. I wonder if Ryujinx devs are next.

Riven, 4 months ago

Isn’t moonie the dude who shit talked Karl Jobst and ended up deleting his video because Jobst called him out on how wrong he was on pretty much everything and how terrible his research was. Like literally just watched a couple YouTube videos level research? Don’t know if I can trust someone who would fuck up THAT bad. I get people make mistakes sometimes but that’s just complete negligence especially for someone with an audience that big.

Essence_of_Meh, 4 months ago (edited 3 months ago)

No idea, I'm only familiar with some of his videos so can't say one way or another. Is there any place I could read about it?

Edit: Also, I believe the video I mentioned has links to specific legal documents surrounding this case so it should be easy to fact check. Still, I'm not trying to whitewash the situation you wrote about would love to learn more if it happened.

Edit 2: A'ight, while I didn't have time for a deep dive I did manage to confirm that situation happened.

I sucks since the videos I've seen seemed reasonably researched and now I'm wondering whether that was a one-time screw up or a normal thing that simply wasn't caught more often. Guess I'll try to look into it more when I'm free.

Riven, 3 months ago

The video by Karl Jobst himself on the matter is pretty informative and has proof to back up all of his claims. Iirc moonie also quoted legal statue and stuff on his video but was rebuked my Karl as well, don’t quote me on this though, I’ll have to rewatch that video to confirm. Here’s the link. Moonie did end up apologizing in the end and Karl did tell his viewers right off the back to not harass Moonie.

If you like LONG form reasonably researched videos about all sorts of topics check out Hbomberguy. He’s great.

Essence_of_Meh, 3 months ago

Iirc moonie also quoted legal statue and stuff on his video but was rebuked my Karl as well

Yeah, that's why I'm planning to look into whether that was a screw up or not, thanks for the link too.

I'm familiar with HBG but it's always good to mention him.

redcalcium, 4 months ago

He’s not innocent and went to jail for it, but does it warrant garnishing his income for life? I think they went too far with that.

Essence_of_Meh, 3 months ago

Oh no, I completely agree no one should be completely screwed over piracy. Just wanted to add some context as I saw a lot of discussion about him ending with "poor innocent dude" without digging into details. That's all.

Nintendo has a lot of problems that should absolutely be called out. I hope me trying to add more details didn't imply otherwise.

yamanii, 3 months ago

They are taking his income for life, that’s an insane overreach specially for a big successful company like Nintendo, and it didn’t matter since the actual team behind it is back selling flashcarts that are even better than having to solder a chip.

Essence_of_Meh, 3 months ago

Yes, it is insane. That case is also a great showcase of how trying to make example out of a single guy doesn't really work since, as you mentioned, rest of the team is still doing their thing.

I'd like to think (well, hope anyway) that no one looks at Bowser's story and thinks "yeah, that's a reasonable conclusion".

LodeMike, 3 months ago

Looks like they’re about to find out.

Caligvla, 4 months ago

God I hate Nintendo, I hate them so goddamn much it’s impossible to find words to express myself.

wintermutehal, 4 months ago

There are so many things that add up over time. I wouldn’t say I hate them just yet, but I‘be stopped buying their products. The way they go about their business just rubs me the wrong way. If the only way to try to communicate that is disengaging from any of their offerings, be it games or the new switch. Yea, I’m out.

Apollo2323, 4 months ago

I feel the same. They are really disgusting , greedy and shitty company. I would not spend a single cent on their products.

ZugZug, 4 months ago

Notes. Thanks.

Aleric, 4 months ago

I will never not acquire Nintendo products on the open ocean.

SurpriZe, 4 months ago

Why?

Bonesince1997, 4 months ago

This is an excellent comment! All these haters up in here but seldom few list why. I think it’s because their arguments wouldn’t hold up, so they don’t voice them. Just pure rage (useless)

Zoot, 4 months ago

Funny how OP just explained above you, and id wager a good chunk of us feel the way he does. The real question is, why would you condone their actions?

Bonesince1997, 4 months ago

OP of the comment I replied to explained nothing. So I don’t know what you’re talking about, unless you’re just making stuff up. Their comment was nothing but pure rage, and it got a lot of support, much of which couldn’t explain their rage either.

Edit: I see a comment above mine, but when I made my reply there were no other comments. Same time.

Caligvla, 3 months ago

If you have more than a couple of neurons you don’t need me to explain why I hate Nintendo, unless you’re a corporate bootlicker who thinks Nintendo can do no wrong. If you really can’t fathom why anyone would hate them, then all you gotta do is Google “Nintendo anticonsumer” and you’ll have reading material for the whole week.

Bonesince1997, 4 months ago

I don’t condone anything necessary. What I do do is I buy their games, play them on their systems, and have fun. I see you guys in here talking about pirating their games, not having fun, and not buying shit. What, I should condone that?! Get out of here.

Zoot, 4 months ago

This is a thread about Nintendo suing a completely legal Emulator. I do believe you’re the one who should “get out of here”, if you’re going to say Nintendo has every right to do this, when everyone else here disagrees.

Nioxic, 4 months ago

Coz they’re assholes.

sues emulator-devs - but puts old roms onto their own products (mini nintendo etc. contained roms that “pirates” had distributed online for years)

never lowers the prices of their games

sues everyone left and right - like Palworld-developers

They issue takedowns on youtube channels for including nintendo game-music or gameplay

and probably more reasons

Vejezdigna, 3 months ago

They didn’t sue Palworld’s creators, but that’s the exception to the norm.

steeznson, 3 months ago

Maybe they should have named it Ryujinx or something else that sounds less phonetically like “you sue”

echo64, 4 months ago

They might have a case if yuzu is actually decrypting switch software. That would be stupid of the developers, though. I would assume that they require you to provide decrypted games.

That’s basically the only leg nintendo has to stand on here, but nintendo can out lawyer you into the poor house regardless.

woelkchen, 4 months ago

AFAIK rooted Switch consoles are used to decrypt the games and Yuzu just tries to execute whatever nonencrypted Switch binary. Unless Nintendo can prove that either the Yuzu developers themselves are behind ripping commercial Switch games or directly colluded with the rippers, they’d have a hard time to actually win. That said, regular people with normal income levels will probably just sign everything because a prolonged lawsuit is about just bankrupting them, not being ruled the win by the judge.

echo64, 4 months ago

From their own guide

yuzu starts with the error “Missing Derivation Components”

yuzu requires console keys to play your games. Please follow our Quickstart Guide to dump these keys and system files from your Nintendo Switch.

Their guide also talks about dumping games from your console so I’m not sure how far it goes, but if they want console keys they are likely decrypting something

dustyData, 3 months ago

Yuzu doesn’t do any encryption breaking. The user is meant to use their Switch to dump their keys, which are legally owned by the user. Then it uses those legal keys to decrypt the ROMs by the exact normal method that the Switch itself uses. They were going based on precedent legal rulings about console emulation. Copying the decryption keys and making copies of the software for archival purposes have both been previously ruled to be perfectly legal for the enduser and don’t constitute piracy. This suit will challenge that notion.

echo64, 3 months ago

Then it uses those legal keys to decrypt the ROMs by the exact normal method that the Switch itself uses

this is the part where they circumvent the copyright protection, even if you do it “the same way” it’s still not authorized, the DMCA is fairly broad about this stuff, one of the reasons it’s so bad

inclementimmigrant, 4 months ago

18 million copies sold and they’re pulling this bullshit. Fuck Nintendo at this point.

Chriszz, 4 months ago

Copies of what

chunkystyles, 4 months ago

Tears of the kingdom.

TORFdot0, 4 months ago

They could have sold 19 million copies though. Won’t someone think of the billion dollar corporations?

PineRune, 4 months ago

I feel like a large number of the people pirating wouldn’t have bought the game even if it was their only option. Then there’s people who pirated and bought the game both. Unrealized profit is not the same as losing money.

caut_R, 4 months ago

I think the majority of these is people just downloading it to see if it works for 2 hours and never touch it again lol

tryptaminev, 4 months ago

But the IP lobby sucessfully got that idea to the courts. In my country if you are caught torrenting a series episode just for 10 seconds, the courts accept the idea, that you spread like a hundred copies of the IP to people who would have definetely bought it otherwise, so you now owe the IP holder 1000 €.

It is complete horseshit

dangblingus, 3 months ago

The vast majority of people pirating TOTK are just stealing it.

yamanii, 3 months ago

Yeah I don’t have a switch, and I’m not about to start it when the second one is near us.

dangblingus, 3 months ago

Surely people downloaded BOTW more times than TOTK over the 5+ years Yuzu has been around.

woodgen, 3 months ago

I wouldn’t have bought the stuff I pirated If I couldn’t have pirate it.

fne8w2ah, 3 months ago

As the sweetest revenge maybe someone should leak all Switch games and DLCs into the public Internet.

AGD4, 3 months ago

I Found It!

:)I reckon that’s the point you were making?